kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 There has been alot of talk about this lately prompted by Datsyuk's retirement, so I figured now is the perfect time to create a thread. I want this topic to be a place where people discuss who will get in, the biggest snubs, players recently retired and whether or not they should get in, and players currently playing and if their career's are on pace to get in. To start the convo, I looked up a list of the biggest HOF snubs, here it is: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2588817-ranking-the-biggest-hall-of-fame-snubs-in-hockey-history 1) Rogatien Vachon 2) Butch Goring 3) Sergei Makarov 4) Eric Lindros 5) Paul Kariya 6) Tom Barrasso 7) Dave Andreychuk 8) Alexander Mogilny 9) Jeremy Roenick 10) Theo Fleury Honorable Mentions Guy Carbonneau Curtis Joseph Bernie Nicholls Mark Recchi Bobby Smith Keith Tkachuk Pierre Turgeon John Vanbiesbrouck Mike Vernon Doug Wilson Chris Osgood (not on list, added by me) Here are guys who are going to be eligible in the upcoming years: 2017 http://www.notinhalloffame.com/hockey/the-hockey-futures/2017-hockey-eligibles Daniel Alfreddson Ed Jovanovski JS Giguere Nikolai Khabibulin Petr Nedved Ray Whitney Ryan Smyth Saku Koivu Teemu Selanne Tim Thomas Todd Bertuzzi Tomas Kaberle Tomas Vocoun 2018 http://www.notinhalloffame.com/hockey/the-hockey-futures/2018-hockey-eligibles Daniel Breire Evgeni Nabokov Kimmo Timonen Martin Brodeur Martin St. Louis 2019 Pavel Datsyuk Brad Richards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Selanne and Brodeur are shoe-ins. Martin St. Louis will get in. Alfredsson and Datsyuk should also get in but I can see why people argue against them. I think Roenick needs to be in as well. The guy is a 500 goal scorer and scored over 1200 points. Lack of hardware is costing him. I think the general consensus for forwards is 1000 points to HoF right? There's rare exceptions I believe. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Selanne and Brodeur will make it. Alfredsson, Kariya, St. Louis and Datsyuk will make it. I'm guessing accumulators like Andreychuk and Recchi will make it. Roenick will likely get in as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) If I had to guess, I would have to guess that next years class will be: Teemu Selanne Paul Kariya JR Mark Recchi *edit* I didnt realize Recchi was 12th all time in points. He should definitely be in the next class. Edited July 24, 2016 by kliq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Man Paul Kariya was a Wing killer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 It would be kind of cool to see Kariya and Selanne get in together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Datsyuk was the best forward in the NHL for a few years, he should get in. Pretty weak candidates overall though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,953 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Lol at Khabibulin eligible but not osgood. The hate never stops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Datsyuk was the best forward in the NHL for a few years, he should get in. Like when? This leagues been dominated by Crosby, Malkin, Ovie, now transitioning into Kane, Benn etc. Dats was the best defensive foward for a few years. But that's not nearly as valuable to the league (in their perception) as offensive forwards are. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Crosby Malkin and Ovechkin scored more. Datsyuk was still the better player. 1 Hockeymom1960 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Crosby Malkin and Ovechkin scored more. Datsyuk was still the better player. I mean we say that because we have bias towards him. But the entire league would probably disagree. If he was the best player he would have the awards to show for it (being voted as best by his peers or the hockey writers). He was the best defensive forward, which is why he has 3 of those awards. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in, but Datsyuk wasn't better than Crosby. Crosby's vision on ice is ridiculous and most Red Wings fans would never admit it because we purely disliked the guy in the late 2000s. Datsyuk was the most skilled and talented player in this era (although probably one of the worst slap shooters) but that doesn't make him the best. Those two are unrelated. If skills and talent defined being the best then Tomas Jurco would be the best player on our team now that Datsyuk is gone. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) 2019 Pavel Datsyuk Brad Richards By the way, I don't think Datsyuk is eligible for Hall of Fame yet since he still a current player. It takes affect after a player stops playing the game. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 By the way, I don't think Datsyuk is eligible for Hall of Fame yet since he still a current player. It takes affect after a player stops playing the game. If true, my bad. I assumed you had to be out of just the NHL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 He was voted the best Russian, ahead of Malkin and Ovechkin, in 13 and was widely regarded as one of the top 3 players from the 04-05 lockout until injuries started showing him down. Announcers on national broadcasts generally called him arguably the best because of his defense, and most people agree he'd have scored a lot more if he had wanted to. 2 Hockeymom1960 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Lol at Khabibulin eligible but not osgood. The hate never stops. Well Khabibulan becomes eligible in 2017, that's what that means. It's not everyone that IS eligible as Osgood has been eligible for years. If anything be upset that he didn't even make their "honorable mentions list" as I had to add him myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) If true, my bad. I assumed you had to be out of just the NHL.Yeah because last year was 3 years since Fedorov quit the game in Russia and Hasek also got in after he quit in Czech finally. He was voted the best Russian, ahead of Malkin and Ovechkin, in 13 and was widely regarded as one of the top 3 players from the 04-05 lockout until injuries started showing him down. Announcers on national broadcasts generally called him arguably the best because of his defense, and most people agree he'd have scored a lot more if he had wanted to.These are all just opinions of announcers though. He could never beat out Crosby or Malkin for Ted Lindsay Award or Hart trophy for a reason. I mean Fedorov was able to win Selke and Hart trophy AND Pearson in the same year so I'm not sure if I agree with the whole "he could have scored more if he wanted to" theory because it's obviously possible for a player to score the most and be the best on defense. Datsyuk was probably a top 3 player for a couple of years but Fedorov was actually number 1 in 1993/94 both defensively and offensively. Unfortunately the other thing for Dats was also his inability to play at the same level in the playoffs, something Crosby and Malkin could do. I think that's mostly what separates those guys from Datsyuk, in the eyes of the league. Dats won't ever be known for any playoff heroics while Malkin and Crosby will be (all while being recognized as top season players in those years). I think the year Malkin wrecked the playoffs in 2009, he also won Ross and came in second for Hart trophy and won the Conn Smythe. I mean obviously, I prefer Datsyuk but Crosby and Malkin were just on another level in those years. Both season and playoffs. And the fact that Crosby was able to recover from his injuries (which honestly is probably the worst type of injury for a player) and still dominate the league post-injury speaks volumes of his hockey level. Can't believe I'm actually trying to prove Crosby is the best player. Yuck. I think I'm done. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Is the primary reason Kariya isn't in the Hall because of lack of Stanley Cup? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Is the primary reason Kariya isn't in the Hall because of lack of Stanley Cup? I think point totals may be a factor, 402 Goals, and 989 Points. Seems stupid if 11 more points made big difference, but who knows. Edited July 24, 2016 by kliq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) I don't think 1000 points mark will apply to Datsyuk though. Unlike Kariya, Datsyuk actually was the best at something (defensive forward). That aspect of his game is certainly generational. But like I eluded to in other thread, some people will probably have the ultra conservative thought process and still stick to "1000 points or no Hall" rhetoric. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) It depends on how long you play. Datsyuk was late coming over, I don't think that 1000 point mark should apply. Did Neely hit 1000? Edited July 24, 2016 by DickieDunn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 There's definitely some exceptions to the 1000 points consensus. Not very many though. I think Datsyuk will be one of the exceptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,522 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 He was voted the best Russian, ahead of Malkin and Ovechkin, in 13 and was widely regarded as one of the top 3 players from the 04-05 lockout until injuries started showing him down. Announcers on national broadcasts generally called him arguably the best because of his defense, and most people agree he'd have scored a lot more if he had wanted to. Just to play devil's advocate, didn't you just say in another thread that Helm isn't the best 3rd line center in the league just because Babcock said so? Why are announcers' opinions of Datsyuk any different than Babcock's opinion of Helm? 1 kickazz reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Lol I do that too sometimes when my bias kicks in. It's hard to separate ourselves and be objective when it comes to favorite players/teams. Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulwoodsfan 52 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Datsyuk was hugely respected by his peers. They don't vote for the Hall, but their opinions are widely known in the hockey community. IMO Datsyuk goes in within the first 3-4 years of being eligible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 I don't think 1000 points mark will apply to Datsyuk though. Unlike Kariya, Datsyuk actually was the best at something (defensive forward). That aspect of his game is certainly generational. But like I eluded to in other thread, some people will probably have the ultra conservative thought process and still stick to "1000 points or no Hall" rhetoric. I've been through this before on the forum. If they only allow 1,000 point players in, there will be almost no players entering the HOF in 10 or 20 years. There are few players that entered the league in 2002 and beyond that will hit 1,000 points. You can't only let Ovechkin and Crosby in the HOF. The standards will change because there is no choice. Man Paul Kariya was a Wing killer. How so? I don't remember him doing much in the playoffs, other than scoring one big goal in the 2003 playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
