Jurco injured

[kickazz 5,459]

59 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I will say it again though, I'm on the fence about protecting Zetterberg. He's one of my favorite players, I named my dog after him for f**** sake, but I don't necessarily think it's the right decision for the team going forward, IF a talented kid has to be exposed... In saying that, if Holland does protect Z, I definitely will not be upset with that decision, regardless how this season plays out... Now, if he wastes a protection on any (or dare I say, all...) of Kronwall, Ericsson, Glendening... I will be beyond pissed...

Zetty!

57 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Zetterberg will be protected no matter what. This is the Red Wings, he's the captain, and -- like kickazz said -- he continues to be one of our best players.

Kronwall, to me, is a different story. Protecting him would be damn near indefensible. That would be a "stupid loyalty thing."

Yes exactly. Kronwall is not a top player (never was really). Zetterberg is still one of the best players on our squad and arguably is the best player in the league for his age 35+. The only other one that might be better currently (slightly) is Joe Thornton (scored like 82 points last year). But anyways, that's why I believe Vegas would pick him up if they are looking for a veteran presence. Because as far as older players in the league are concerned, he would probably be the best one available. 

I think the sky would fall even harder on top of Ken Holland if we lost Z to a dumb expansion draft. He will most likely rather lose someone like Sheahan. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

12 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Holland could leave Z unprotected, and then Z could make it known that he intends to retire immediately if claimed in the draft, because he doesn't want to play anywhere else. He started a Wing, and wants to retire a Wing, and taking him would waste a valuable pick. Couldn't see Vegas chancing it when there will be lots of other options. I see them takin Howard anyways if he continues to have a great season. That would be their one Detroit player they can take. 

Yeah I remember thinking this would be a great idea too. But I'm assuming Z still wants to play hockey. He would basically be bluffing and if they drafted him anyway he'd look like an idiot lol. 

[chaps80 1,591]

5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Look up the previous expansion drafts. Kevin Dineen was 37 when drafted by the Blue Jackets. Played with them for 2 seasons after that till he retired. His decline was much worse than Z's but he still got picked up. Chris Terreri was 38.

Lots of 34 and 35 year olds picked up in the 1999 expansion draft as well 

Chris Terreri. Now that's a name I haven't heard in a longggg time.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

9 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Chris Terreri. Now that's a name I haven't heard in a longggg time.

So you've heard of him?

Of course I've heard of him, he's me!

[marcaractac 3,963]

11 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Holland could leave Z unprotected, and then Z could make it known that he intends to retire immediately if claimed in the draft, because he doesn't want to play anywhere else. He started a Wing, and wants to retire a Wing, and taking him would waste a valuable pick. Couldn't see Vegas chancing it when there will be lots of other options. I see them takin Howard anyways if he continues to have a great season. That would be their one Detroit player they can take. 

 

The problem with this is that it would likely be seen as circumventing the expansion draft and the team would likely be punished for it. Same goes for teams who have a handshake deal on a UFA but hold off until after the draft to sign the contract. Teams getting caught doing so risk losing their first round draft pick.  

[chaps80 1,591]

9 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So you've heard of him?

Of course I've heard of him, he's me!

Must have been great winning those two Cups huh?

18 hours ago, kickazz said:

Yeah I remember thinking this would be a great idea too. But I'm assuming Z still wants to play hockey. He would basically be bluffing and if they drafted him anyway he'd look like an idiot lol. 

True, but I dunno if he'd want to start over with an expansion franchise when he's only got a couple years left in him. Not that there's much left in Detroit for him.

[chaps80 1,591]

7 hours ago, marcaractac said:

The problem with this is that it would likely be seen as circumventing the expansion draft and the team would likely be punished for it. Same goes for teams who have a handshake deal on a UFA but hold off until after the draft to sign the contract. Teams getting caught doing so risk losing their first round draft pick.  

Possibly, but it's not like Z is a 25 year old in his prime. The fact that he doesn't want to start over, especially with an expansion franchise, can be seen as legitimate. And Holland not protecting him could be based on his age as well. Need to protect the younger guys in a rebuild situation. Would the league see it that way though? Who knows until it's tried I guess....

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

Possibly, but it's not like Z is a 25 year old in his prime. The fact that he doesn't want to start over, especially with an expansion franchise, can be seen as legitimate. And Holland not protecting him could be based on his age as well. Need to protect the younger guys in a rebuild situation. Would the league see it that way though? Who knows until it's tried I guess....

2

Try telling the league that. Having the team or Hank say he would consider retiring if drafted would no doubt be seen as an attempt in trying to protect an extra player, and the team would absolutely be penalized for it. Not worth it. 

[chaps80 1,591]

18 hours ago, kickazz said:

. Zetterberg is still one of the best players on our squad and arguably is the best player in the league for his age 35+. The only other one that might be better currently (slightly) is Joe Thornton (scored like 82 points last year).

Jagr is still doing well for what...45?

[chaps80 1,591]

7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Try telling the league that. Having the team or Hank say he would consider retiring if drafted would no doubt be seen as an attempt in trying to protect an extra player, and the team would absolutely be penalized for it. Not worth it. 

Yeah, the league thinks what it wants to, but for most it could be seen as a real concern. He's almost done, got maybe 2-3 seasons left if he takes care of himself and isn't overused, and he wants to retire a Red Wing..the team he was drafted by and has spent his entire career with, won a Cup, had some great memories. Then all of a sudden he's in Vegas with a Knight on his chest. Maybe he'll retire after he gets picked then, wasting one of their 30 valuable picks. Later guys. lol

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, chaps80 said:

Yeah, the league thinks what it wants to, but for most it could be seen as a real concern. He's almost done, got maybe 2-3 seasons left if he takes care of himself and isn't overused, and he wants to retire a Red Wing..the team he was drafted by and has spent his entire career with, won a Cup, had some great memories. Then all of a sudden he's in Vegas with a Knight on his chest. Maybe he'll retire after he gets picked then, wasting one of their 30 valuable picks. Later guys. lol

 

I agree is almost done. I think saying he has 2-3 years left is being generous. I would not be surprised at all to see Holland protect him. I just think it is the wrong move. I also think there is a better chance that, if left unprotected, that he would be left unclaimed due to his age and what he has left.

I mean, I just feel it makes more sense to take a risk on a guy like Jurco or Sheahan when it comes to building a new franchise. Sheahan can make a reliable 3rd line center for them at worst when it comes down to it. He is also young enough where they'd own his rights for a long while.

In the end, they are not building a team of teenagers over there. They'll have plenty of guys who have been in the league for a few years, who can be of service for several seasons. To take a 37-year-old for a veteran presence just seems silly in today's NHL. The game is getting faster, Hank is getting slower. Younger players are playing bigger roles than ever. 

[kliq 3,755]

If this thread says anything, its that fans are split on what to do with Zetterberg. Holland is pretty much is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Must have been great winning those two Cups huh

[kickazz 5,459]

I don't get why people think "Zetterberg is done in 2 years".

Why exactly is he done in 2 years? Because he can't score 80-90 points in a season anymore? 

It's a serious question..

Edited November 26, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Because he's half the player he was and has a chronic bad back

[e_prime 1,936]

6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Because he's half the player he was and has a chronic bad back

Has this ever stopped Ken Holland from re-signing a player before? 

Also a serious question.

3 hours ago, kliq said:

If this thread says anything, its that fans are split on what to do with Zetterberg. Holland is pretty much is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here.

Who cares what Holland wants/feels.  I don't want Z protected,  I also don't want to lose him to LV. 

[kickazz 5,459]

24 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Because he's half the player he was and has a chronic bad back

But so are most of the othjer 35+ year olds.... Chronic bad back or not he played in all 82 games last year and around 77 the year before. So why again is he FOR SURE retiring in 2 years or less? 

Have people on this forum actually been following the other older players in the league? Daniel and Henrik Sedin have produced just as much as Zetterberg. Thornton has just as many points this year. Jaromir Jagr has less points. The only older player that's been impressive is Markov. So why is Z any different than the rest of the league players? He actually plays the full season unlike a lot of the others. 

Given that bit of info. Knowing that he's no different than the other older players. Do people still think Z will retire in less than two years? If so can we conclude that the Sedins, Thornton, Markov etc also have less than 2 years or whatever the arbitrary number is.  

Edited November 26, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

That's also when his salary drops. It was never intended or expected that he finish this deal. The last few years were to drop the cap hit.

[e_prime 1,936]

Don't forget about the recapture penalty tho' ... That's one of the reasons why I don't want him retiring nor going anywhere else and then deciding he'd rather not be playing than not playing for the Red Wings. 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by e_prime

[kickazz 5,459]

List of 35+ year olds last season by points

 

List of games played by each 35+ year old last season.

 

 

So who on this list is retiring soon? And why? 

List of 35+ old this season. The two best so far are Hossa and Markov (who both happen to play on the best teams in the league). Take a look at everyone else. They're neck in neck in terms of contribution. Are all these old farts retiring next year lol? 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

7 hours ago, marcaractac said:

I agree is almost done. I think saying he has 2-3 years left is being generous. I would not be surprised at all to see Holland protect him. I just think it is the wrong move. I also think there is a better chance that, if left unprotected, that he would be left unclaimed due to his age and what he has left.

I mean, I just feel it makes more sense to take a risk on a guy like Jurco or Sheahan when it comes to building a new franchise. Sheahan can make a reliable 3rd line center for them at worst when it comes down to it. He is also young enough where they'd own his rights for a long while.

In the end, they are not building a team of teenagers over there. They'll have plenty of guys who have been in the league for a few years, who can be of service for several seasons. To take a 37-year-old for a veteran presence just seems silly in today's NHL. The game is getting faster, Hank is getting slower. Younger players are playing bigger roles than ever. 

Yeah, I can see him getting passed over if left unprotected as well. Vegas would obv know he doesn't have much left, and if looking to build, you need guys that will be around for awhile. There will be someone else left unprotected that makes more sense, like Howard.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

11 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Try telling the league that. Having the team or Hank say he would consider retiring if drafted would no doubt be seen as an attempt in trying to protect an extra player, and the team would absolutely be penalized for it. Not worth it. 

Honestly what can the league do about it? They cant penalized the Wings for something that might hypothetically happen. All that needs to happen is after the protected lists are announced have a "friend of a friend" report to a Swedish newspaper that Hank is deeply offended by not being protected and would rather retire than start at a new organization. The league cant do anything to the Wings over a rumor. You know that news will get to Vegas and if they still want to risk wasting a pick that is their option. My opinion is that rumor would be strong enough to make them pass on a guy with a bad back who has maybe 2 years left in him.

[Jacksoni 418]

So which version of the Jurco return is this, version 3, 4? As far as I'm concerned this should be his last try on the big team. With that said, ease him into it, let him get his pulse up and slowly increase his minutes and importance.

One full, hard try to get this enigma working. If it doesn't work, I say waive him.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jacksoni

[kickazz 5,459]

9 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

When is this guy coming back?  Getting Jurco and AA back for Miller and Ott is a HUGE upgrade to the team.

Youth over oldies bruh.

[Dabura 12,207]

46 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Youth over oldies bruh.

I mean, he's not wrong.

Nyquist  Larkin  Vanek
Tatar  Zetterberg  Mantha
Athanasiou  Nielsen  Abdelkader
Bertuzzi  Sheahan/Glendening  Jurco

As Borat would say: very nice!