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krsmith17

Pulkkinen claimed by Minnesota Wild

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10 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Yeah you can't compare teams before the cap to modern teams.  There's no way a team now would be able to have enough players better than those 3 to make them the 4th line, unless they had three rookies making peanuts on scoring lines.  Even then they wouldn't stay together long.

 

Miller-Glendening-Ott isn't a terrible 4th line.  I might prefer Bertuzzi on one of the wings instead, but like I've said before, with what they have and where they are as a team, it should be Helm, Sheahan, and Glendening, with AA and Mantha on the 3rd line.  Right now, I don't care if Mantha's "earned" it, sometimes the best way to help a kid improve is play him and give him some confidence.  This isn't a Cup contender where dealing with a rookie's growing pains is going to be a deal breaker, it's a rebuilding team and keeping Mantha in GR for even a half season is stupid.

Actually that line IS terrible. They had a COMBINED Corsi For % in tonight's game of 30.11%. That is combined! Glendening led the way with a whopping 6.9% CF. They were a combined (-74) in Corsi differential as well. Ugh.

Advanced stats aren't everything but they do tell a good part of the story and we are being hit in the face with how awful this line is.

Glendening should be getting less than 10 minutes per night and Miller/Ott shouldn't even be on the team.

Meanwhile, even though he was a -1 and scored no points, Pulkkinen was a 69.23% CF. Positive possession seems to be a trend with him.

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One game doesn't prove much, and it's up to the coach to use them properly.  The biggest issue with Glendening and whoever he plays with, is Trashill's insistence that they're the new Grind Line and are just as capable of playing at a fairly high level as Draper & Co. could.

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2 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

One game doesn't prove much, and it's up to the coach to use them properly.  The biggest issue with Glendening and whoever he plays with, is Trashill's insistence that they're the new Grind Line and are just as capable of playing at a fairly high level as Draper & Co. could.

You are correct that one game doesn't prove much. But if you look at the career numbers for these three players you will see this is who they are:

Glendening career CF% is 44.2

Miller career CF% is 49.0

Ott career CF% is 47.2

 

Yep, great shutdown line. I miss me some Draper/Maltby/McCarty/Kocur.

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1 minute ago, romagoth said:

You are correct that one game doesn't prove much. But if you look at the career numbers for these three players you will see this is who they are:

Glendening career CF% is 44.2

Miller career CF% is 49.0

Ott career CF% is 47.2

 

Yep, great shutdown line. I miss me some Draper/Maltby/McCarty/Kocur.

Putting too much emphasis on corsi isn't going to prove much of anything.  Also, I didn't say they were a shut down line, just an OK 4th line

Edited by DickieDunn

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So what they are? Were not able to get out of their zone and were playing pk scheme during their shifts. Also failed in PKs.

What should be the overall role of 4th line then? I just don´t get it, what´s the income of having Miller/Ott together? I believe this overall bottom 5 line accross the league.

Btw., yes, Pulkk nice corsi, but didn´t play a bigger role in this (actually failed to cover Steen in 0:1 sutuation), anyway, their 4th line is skilled, quite fast able to transit quickly from their zone.

 

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If used properly, they'll be out there maybe 8 minutes ES a game, go in, forecheck, stir things up, get off before you f things up.

 

Oif course, as I've said several times, the checking line should be Sheahan-Helm-Glendening with Mantha and AA with one of Tatar, Nyquist, Vanek, or Abdelkader as the 3rd line.

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Agree 110%, but I don´t think Miller/Ott are able to sing a duet in offenzive zone, their checking options are quite limited due to their speed and skills. If we speak about p-o contenders, there´s nothing they can match with. 

Let´s take a look on cup contenders, there´re no 90s classic 4th lines, this scheme is extinct (sooner or later, seems like very soon, trend is elsewhere). And yes, I would like to see Draper/Maltby/McCarty/Kocur-like line once again sweeping top lines.

I don´t want to repeat this once again while most of the people here are on the same page, but if Blash/Ken won´t realize this NOW, or till end of November, we´re in hell. Not a big changes required, I believe. 

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On 10/13/2016 at 1:45 AM, Buppy said:

First, your numbers are wrong.

Tatar DZ% last year was 25.5, vs Pulk at 21, OZ% was 38.9 for Tatar, 43.6 for Pulk. CA/60 was 43.78 for Tatar, 42.98 for Pulk. 

Secondly, study on the subject shows that zone starts have only a small impact on shots. Quality of competition also looks to have less impact than many think. All told, and as I said before, his stats are certainly inflated somewhat, but not nearly to the degree people want to think.

So no, I'm not doing the same thing. I'm basing my opinion on the data as is. I'm not saying he's one of the best possession players in the league (though Tatar might be, and Datsyuk certainly was), but everything currently understood about the subject suggests he's significantly better than average. Maybe someday some new analysis will change that, or maybe not.

But whatever, he's not a Wing anymore. If people want to keep hating him, I'm done caring.

 

My numbers were based on "all situations". Even if he was "above average" on 5 on 5 he was still a waste of a roster spot on the Red Wings. Which was my original point anyway. It's not hating it when it's calling it like it is. He wasn't utilized by us, he wasn't going to be and lo and behold he was put and waivers and claimed. Wasted and gone. To Minnesota. That's about all there is to it. 

Should've traded him while he was still waiver-eligible under Babcock for another prospect. We know our current system isn't keen on guys like him. 

Oh well, lesson learned. But probably not. 

Edited by kickazz

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Unless Pulk could've morphed into Nik Lidstrom I doubt he would've helped that atrocious defense last night. We don't need wussy players with strong, yet extremely wild slapshots. We need some friggin help on D... and fast. 

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It's funny how much emphasis is placed on our 4th lines Corsi % in a road game, which should have taught almost anyone with a functional hockey mind that our defence is the biggest problem we have... what a joke.

Our team will not make the post-season with that top 6, even when you subtract Oulette for Kronwall.

Petr Mrazek may have played the best 5 GA game ever witnessed.

 

 

Edited by WingedWheel91

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1 hour ago, e_prime said:

Did anyone actually believe that???

They actually had him skating on their 2nd line with Granlund-Koivu in practice, but decided to go back to using Pominville there. Same deal with their 2nd PP unit - Granlund-Koivu, then Pominville/Pulkkinen/Niederreiter as the third forward on the unit.

For the record, I'm not upset about the Wings losing Pulkkinen and trying to prove a point - I just happen to have all of this useless information in my head at the moment. Spending far too much time going over my fantasy hockey team and looking at line combinations/PP units recently.

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4 hours ago, e_prime said:

Pulks played 7:40 on the fourth line last night for the Wild, ended the game with 0 G 0 A -1 +/- 0 SOG

Just sayin'.  :ninja:

Don't inflate it now, he only played 7:20.  He had more ice time than Dalpe though, he only played 7:01.

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What does being on the road have to do with our 4th line being f***ing terrible? Miller and Ott are awful at every aspect of the game, no matter which ice surface they're playing on, whether it's 5-on-5, short-handed, up by a goal trying to protect the lead, or down by a goal trying to eat 40 seconds while other lines get a breather... They're flat out bad at hockey, and should not have a place on this roster, certainly not in the lineup every single night. I sure hope Blashill and co. realize this and scratch them / send them down to Grand Rapids... I'd rather literally any player in the entire organization in over these scrubs...

It sucks losing any assets for nothing, but this was never specifically about Nestrasil, or Frk, or Pulkkinen for me, this is about losing assets while s***tier, more expensive players remain on the team... It's terrible asset management, which is something teams can't afford to do in today's NHL.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

What does being on the road have to do with our 4th line being f***ing terrible? Miller and Ott are awful at every aspect of the game, no matter which ice surface they're playing on, whether it's 5-on-5, short-handed, up by a goal trying to protect the lead, or down by a goal trying to eat 40 seconds while other lines get a breather... They're flat out bad at hockey, and should not have a place on this roster, certainly not in the lineup every single night. I sure hope Blashill and co. realize this and scratch them / send them down to Grand Rapids... I'd rather literally any player in the entire organization in over these scrubs...

It sucks losing any assets for nothing, but this was never specifically about Nestrasil, or Frk, or Pulkkinen for me, this is about losing assets while s***tier, more expensive players remain on the team... It's terrible asset management, which is something teams can't afford to do in today's NHL.

Last change.

You're 4th line is always less effective on the road because they can't get their matchups. Don't you remember losing a playoff series in 2015 primarily because our (4th line, terrible at hockey, brutal corsi) center went down with an injury in game 4 - which directly lead to the emergence of the line he had completely shut down to that point in that game, as well as the entire home game previous? It's extremely hard to argue that Glendenning's injury didn't cost us that game, and collaterally a 3-1 series lead.

Everyone likes to throw numbers around, but I can't remember losing a player who was truly above replacement in a while. Even if you argue that Pulkinnen isn't a great player (which he certainly is not), but might have been a great trade chip - well that's to assume that Holland hasn't been trying to trade him for 2 years? Who knows what his value was or if anyone was willing to take him in a trade - knowing they would face this same scenario we did.

All in all, the Landon Ferraro, Teemu Pulkinnen and Anrej Nestrasil's of the world are at the very least replaceable in every draft class, and hold little value as trade chips - because teams know they can probably find equal talent at the end of each year.

The point I'm making is that our 4th line will certainly not be our problem this year - and none of Frk, Pulkinnen, Ferrarro, Jurco, or Mantha would have been our savior since none of those guys play respectable defence at the NHL level... Something we truly lack. Trouba better be on his way. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by WingedWheel91

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I understand the benefit of home ice, but what does last change have to do with our 4th line? I can see if you were talking about a top line, but who do you think Cooper was trying to match up against our amazing 4th line that made them struggle so much? 

I'll agree that Glendening was effective in that series, but that may have been the worst thing that could have happened. Because Glendening was so effective at shutting down the Johnson line, he now get matched up (over-matched) by pretty much every top line in the league. By the way, I like Glendening, and I think if utilized properly he can be an effective player. However he is way over used and misused in my opinion. Regardless, my beef isn't with Glendening on this team, it's with the other two plugs I mentioned, Miller and Ott. Those guys are useless and the fact that we waived Pulkkinen and Frk in favour of them, and they're in the lineup over Athanasiou, Mantha, Bertuzzi, etc. is what pisses me off...

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People wanted something in return for Pulk rather than letting him go for free. And the people who wanted AA and Mantha to play wanted Ott and Miller cut instead and Helm and Sheahan replace them on the 4th line allowing AA or Mantha a spot on the third. 

 

Edited by kickazz
Personal attack.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

People wanted something in return for Pulk rather than letting him go for free. And the people who wanted AA and Mantha to play wanted Ott and Miller cut instead and Helm and Sheahan replace them on the 4th line allowing AA or Mantha a spot on the third. 

 

 

Except he didn't have any trade value.  If a team could get him for free, great, otherwise, why spend an asset?

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19 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

 

Except he didn't have any trade value.  If a team could get him for free, great, otherwise, why spend an asset?

Exactly, I don't get why so many don't understand this.  Nobody wanted him bad enough to give up an asset for him.  There was a good chance the Wings wouldn't want him on the roster, so he's have to hit waivers, then another team could grab him....take a chance at a very low cost (just salary).  There's no guarantee in getting the player that way though as several teams could put in claims.  If teams really want a guy, they'd make a trade for them.  He literally had no trade value, if he did, one would have been made.  Now you could complain that he could have been traded at some earlier point when he had trade value, but that's hindsight.  You have an asset that you are hoping develops into something, the only way you trade someone that you think has potential is to get another player you have your eye on, you don't just give someone like that up to get a pick.

It's not like he was a high potential guy when they drafted him.  He was a long shot to develop into anything when they got him.  You draft people in later rounds in hopes they develop into something beyond what they projected on draft day.  More often than not, they don't.

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