Pasquale starting season with Wings as third goalie?

[chaps80 1,591]

At the end of an mlive article giving short bios on all the 2016-17 Red Wings roster players, it mentions that Edward Pasquale will be starting the season with the Wings as the third goaltender. Seems weird with the crunch for roster spots that led to two solid players being lost to waivers, that they would carry three goaltenders. Maybe the article had it wrong?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/10/red_wings_roster.html#28

[FifeHockeyNut 57]

It's a salary cap move. As I understand it, because Kronwall didn't go on LTIR the wings never got relief from his cap hit and sending Street down for Pasquale gets them just under the cap. I'm sure there's a more elegant way to describe this. Hope it makes sense.

[chaps80 1,591]

What you posted kind of made sense. Lol

I found an article that explained it. He was waived and sent to GR, then with Street getting injured and sent down, they brought him back up for one more look in camp. Apparently they liked what they saw from him. Good stuff. He was sent back to GR earlier today. Figured there was an explanation for it. No team carries three goalies.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm not sure what article you read but like Fife said, it was purely a cap move, nothing more. It definitely didn't have anything to do with wanting another look from him...

[marcaractac 3,960]

Looking like the Kings could be without Quick for 3-4 months. Holland should be on the phone willing to give Howard away right now. 

[chaps80 1,591]

On October 13, 2016 at 9:56 PM, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure what article you read but like Fife said, it was purely a cap move, nothing more. It definitely didn't have anything to do with wanting another look from him...

So they send him down week ago, then bring him back up for a couple days to send him back down? What would be the point of this "cap move", if not for giving a player a last look? Maybe you guys can explain it better than just saying it's a "cap move"?

[chaps80 1,591]

25 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Looking like the Kings could be without Quick for 3-4 months. Holland should be on the phone willing to give Howard away right now. 

He should, but he probly won't. Despite Howard's struggles and demotion, Holland still wants him around. He has said he's happy to have him as "A solid second option in goal" before. But, that could have just been trying to save face after just tying up close to $10 million in goaltending having to give Mrazek a raise and Howard not getting a sniff from other teams. Having Coreau ready to step in as Mrazek's backup at a very cheap cap hit and not having room for him is bad as well.

Trying to send him to LA for basically nothing would work for the Kings as Howard's cap hit would be covered by relief from Quick's hit if he's on LTIR, but then what to do if he stinks it up or when Quick comes back? Where would they put him? Unless he regains his old form, good luck trading him or getting someone to bite on waivers. Howard is high risk and every GM knows it. Big cap hit, very inconsistent, prone to bad goals and meltdowns. I think they'd look elsewhere first.

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

So they send him down week ago, then bring him back up for a couple days to send him back down? What would be the point of this "cap move", if not for giving a player a last look? Maybe you guys can explain it better than just saying it's a "cap move"?

The way LTIR works is they take the cap hit of the full roster at the time. Whatever amount that is over the actual cap is the amount of LTIR relief you get. Having Pasquale on the roster meant we were able to get virtually all our potential relief. Basically gave us an extra $575,000 in cap space. Not enough to really do anything with, so kind of meaningless, but still.

[marcaractac 3,960]

12 hours ago, chaps80 said:

He should, but he probly won't. Despite Howard's struggles and demotion, Holland still wants him around. He has said he's happy to have him as "A solid second option in goal" before. But, that could have just been trying to save face after just tying up close to $10 million in goaltending having to give Mrazek a raise and Howard not getting a sniff from other teams. Having Coreau ready to step in as Mrazek's backup at a very cheap cap hit and not having room for him is bad as well.

Trying to send him to LA for basically nothing would work for the Kings as Howard's cap hit would be covered by relief from Quick's hit if he's on LTIR, but then what to do if he stinks it up or when Quick comes back? Where would they put him? Unless he regains his old form, good luck trading him or getting someone to bite on waivers. Howard is high risk and every GM knows it. Big cap hit, very inconsistent, prone to bad goals and meltdowns. I think they'd look elsewhere first.

 

Any potential Howard trade will involve the Wings retaining salary. There is no way around it. But eating a large portion of his cap for the rest of his contract is a lot less terrible than a buyout. 

[LeftWinger 4,934]

Well, LA needs a goalie. Quick is expected to be out 3-4 months with a severe groin pull.

Trade them Howard for a pick. No need to retain salary because Quick makes more.  They'd be saving money acquiring Howard.

 

http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/10/jonathan-quick-months.html

 

BTW, we need a thread for a Trouba and Fowler watch. The off season thread is locked, but these are two very important pieces and one of them could be a Red Wing sooner or later.

Edited October 15, 2016 by LeftWinger

[chaps80 1,591]

4 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Any potential Howard trade will involve the Wings retaining salary. There is no way around it. But eating a large portion of his cap for the rest of his contract is a lot less terrible than a buyout. 

Yeah that's true. Retain some salary for rest of this season and next instead of paying off a buyout for five or six. Then if LA did want him and it didn' work out they could waive and bury if he doesn't get claimed or try to pass him along to another team at a fairly cheap hit, or let Vegas have him if they want him. If Holland could do it that would be a big step forward. Then focus on getting rid of Errorsson. Lol

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Well, LA needs a goalie. Quick is expected to be out 3-4 months with a severe groin pull.

Trade them Howard for a pick. No need to retain salary because Quick makes more.  They'd be saving money acquiring Howard.

 

http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/10/jonathan-quick-months.html

 

BTW, we need a thread for a Trouba and Fowler watch. The off season thread is locked, but these are two very important pieces and one of them could be a Red Wing sooner or later.

Holland would have to retain salary. Howard's cap hit is covered by Quick's, but LA would never take him at his full cap hit because he's a high risk aquisition. Too many question marks regarding his play. If he sucks fo them, then he's an even harder move than he is at this point. Changed teams and still the same result..no team would ever want anything to do with him (at least until his contract is up and they can take a chance for cheap maybe). Plus when Quick comes back from injury they're stuck with a $5 million backup. Basically taking the Wings' current problem on themselves.

Sucks for the Kings that Quick is hurt, especially having the same injury as before, being sidelined for months and having only Zatkoff and Budaj to turn to. Zatkoff is capable though, but I dunno if he'll get them through this without having to make a trade for more help. 

14 hours ago, Buppy said:

The way LTIR works is they take the cap hit of the full roster at the time. Whatever amount that is over the actual cap is the amount of LTIR relief you get. Having Pasquale on the roster meant we were able to get virtually all our potential relief. Basically gave us an extra $575,000 in cap space. Not enough to really do anything with, so kind of meaningless, but still.

Gotcha. Def a meaningless move.

[Juklitz 85]

14 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Howard's cap hit is covered by Quick's, but LA would never take him at his full cap hit because he's a high risk aquisition. Too many question marks regarding his play

They don´t need a goalie for next three seasons. Obviously will be aiming on Pavelec.

[chaps80 1,591]

14 hours ago, Juklitz said:

They don´t need a goalie for next three seasons. Obviously will be aiming on Pavelec.

They could be looking at Pavelic, but if they got Howard they wouldn't need to keep him for the rest of his contract. If the Wings retain lots of salary, they can use him until Quick is back and then move or waive him. If he only costs say $2 million, he'd be worth taking a chance on, and would be much easier to move if needed. Both goalies arent the best options considering their play the past couple seasons, but it's slim pickings right now.

[Juklitz 85]

Well, they can waive him, but he won´t be claimed for the same reason why it´s nearly imposible to trade him. Price+term+low market, still the same. Even Pavelec is not really an option for them. Ok, he wasn´t claimed from waivers, means - he won´t be claimed in next two months and when Quick is back, they don´t have a cap space for him. 

[chaps80 1,591]

On 17/10/2016 at 3:55 AM, Juklitz said:

Well, they can waive him, but he won´t be claimed for the same reason why it´s nearly imposible to trade him. Price+term+low market, still the same. Even Pavelec is not really an option for them. Ok, he wasn´t claimed from waivers, means - he won´t be claimed in next two months and when Quick is back, they don´t have a cap space for him. 

He doesn't have to be claimed. If/when he clears, they can assign him yo the minors. Howard might not be of interst to any teams, but nothing stopping him being sent down.So many seem to think that if he isn't traded or claimed then that's it, but it's not.

[krsmith17 7,191]

What would be the point in sending Howard to Grand Rapids?...

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

What would be the point in sending Howard to Grand Rapids?...

Coreau.

But i didn't mean the Wings waive him. Mean the Kings if they had to.

Edited October 19, 2016 by chaps80

[Juklitz 85]

6 hours ago, chaps80 said:

He doesn't have to be claimed. If/when he clears, they can assign him yo the minors.

Right, but the point is this won´t help LA with cap issue they have. Pavelec is too expensive for them, even sending him to minors won´t help.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Coreau.

But i didn't mean the Wings waive him. Mean the Kings if they had to.

Sending Howard to the minors does not save much in cap space though. The max buried salary on his contract would be $950,000, so you'd still be on the hook for over $4M. You then call up Coreau and you're adding $612,500, or in the King's case, activate Quick from LTIR and they're adding $5.8M...

[Buppy 1,720]

Kings currently have about $16M in cap space. 2.5 if they send us Zatkoff. Waive Budaj when Quick comes back put's them at 3.1, or 3.4 if they waived Howard. So the cap would work if we retained $1.9M or more. They probably wouldn't want Howard anyway, since they're not exactly overflowing with cap space next year. But maybe they think Vegas would take him if his salary was only $3M-ish.

Pavelec would be more attractive though, and the Jets wouldn't have to retain as much. 

All in all, I'd give a 0.03% chance. Maybe 0.04% if Jimmy makes himself look good tonight.  

[chaps80 1,591]

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Sending Howard to the minors does not save much in cap space though. The max buried salary on his contract would be $950,000, so you'd still be on the hook for over $4M. You then call up Coreau and you're adding $612,500, or in the King's case, activate Quick from LTIR and they're adding $5.8M...

I know it doesn't make sense for the Wings right now. But i would like to see Coreau get some games in.

For the Kings it would if the Wings retain most of his salary in a trade. Or like said above, send us Zatkoff and keep Howard as Quick's backup.

[Juklitz 85]

7 hours ago, Buppy said:

Pavelec would be more attractive though, and the Jets wouldn't have to retain as much. 

Why exactly would Jets offer retained salary? Doesn´t make sense for them to save LA´s a** and even more - pay for it.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Juklitz

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, Juklitz said:

Why exactly would Jets offer retained salary? Doesn´t make sense for them to save LA´s a** and even more - pay for it.

3 million or so reasons. Retaining $900k is better than paying Pavelec $3.9 million to play in the AHL.

[Juklitz 85]

So they are paying 4.75M to Pavelec and still have him as an option (and could try to trade him during tdl), what would be the positive of paying him like 1,5-2M and have him not AND help their rivals with goalie and cap situation?

Would be the way for Holland (but LA won´t take goalie with such a term). 

And, as we can see with Trouba´s case - Jets are [still] not desperate [enough] to make some moves.