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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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I'll start by expressing two concerns if we miss the playoffs.

1. I am not sure I trust Ken Holland to make the right choice at the draft.

2. Is it a waste for this current team to have a lottery pick, let alone a #1? There will no room on our roster for whomever is drafted, due to more players running out of waiver options and more than a few long term contracts that will no doubt screw up our retooling.

...although, having a top 5 pick, and not really knowing what to do with it, we'd have NUMEROUS suitors banging on the desk (:lol:) to offer us whatever for that 1st round pick.

I'm reading here and there that things aren't so rosey in Minny. People are calling for Fletcher to be fired, trade this guy, sit that guy...I wonder if Ryan Suter would be on the table for the right price? I know he has a NMC, and his wife, etc...but in reality it is a business.  Although, I wonder if he'd even still be interested in playing here.

oh, BTW, and I am talking to myself as much as anyone, lets try to keep the "Player X sucks" and "Fire Holland" type comments to a minimum! :tounge:

 

 

Edited by Matt
No mega-"catch all" threads please. Discuss Trouba as a standalone thread, other potential "solutions" in others.

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to get trouba you have to start hoping the jets s*** the bed and start losing big time and get desperate for a player like nyquist or tatar etc'

fowler is the easier to get except the ducks wouldnt want to take much salary back. so basically we have to trade someone worth 4mil for a pick then maybe offer that pick for fowler

you need at least 2 defense men to fix this team

 

Edited by brett

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For sure.  I'd still hesitate on trading AA though. For all the folks that herald Helm, do so because of his speed.  Which I agree is valuable, but AA not only has that speed, he has hands to go with it. I think if I'm picking 2 forwards to not trade, its Larkin and AA. Those are your top two centers for the long haul.  Nielsen has 6 years, sure, but AA and Larkin could be 15-20 yrs. 

I know DD hasn't looked great thus far, but we all know he's not a top guy anyhow, and probably (much like Kronwall) slots in better as a #2 or #3. But he is still one of our better guys, so I think he is also one that you don't trade.

I hope Sproul gets in next game, I want to evaluate him.  XO is ok, but he didn't show me too much that proves he deserves to keep that spot.  He didn't screw anything up, he played solid. Bit we need more than solid play from the D. We need these young kids (Sproul, XO and Marchenko) to step up and prove they all belong here.  We don't need 7 #4's - #7's we need top pairing.  Which is why I'd love to see Holland get BOTH Fowler and Trouba...or maybe even Shattenkirk and one of the others. But IMO, and most agree, we need 2 top D-men. I like DD, and I think he should not be traded, but he is no better than #2 at the most.

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5 minutes ago, brett said:

to get trouba you have to start hoping the jets s*** the bed and start losing big time and get desperate for a player like nyquist or tatar etc'

fowler is the easier to get except the ducks wouldnt want to take much salary back.

you need at least 2 defense men to fix this team

 

If we could just somehow trade away salary to some other teams for virtually nothing upwards of a 6th or 7th pick in return, we cold then seriously negotiate with Anaheim and Winnipeg.

 

I believe, if Anaheim isn't looking for salary, they may just take a shot on a pick and maybe Jurco plus a prospect.  We are desperate to gain a D-man, but I think they are more desperate to trade one. Problem would be, other teams.  Even for Fowler there may end up being a bidding war...although, it has been known for a while now that he most likely would be dealt.  December 1st is coming soon, that is when RFA's can no longer negotiate and re-sign.  Both Trouba and Fowler will have to be dealt with by then.

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38 minutes ago, brett said:

to get trouba you have to start hoping the jets s*** the bed and start losing big time and get desperate for a player like nyquist or tatar etc'

fowler is the easier to get except the ducks wouldnt want to take much salary back. so basically we have to trade someone worth 4mil for a pick then maybe offer that pick for fowler

you need at least 2 defense men to fix this team

 

Let's start with one for now lol.

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everyone has their demands. holland really shot himself in the foot

basically this is what ive read

to get trouba it cost you larkin plus picks probably

to get fowler it cost you aa or mantha plus 16th overall pick

but before any of this happens you have to make cap room! fowler is 4mil and trouba wants at least 5.5mil

when you look at cap room you look at the awesome signings holland has made. ericsson 4.25 abs 4.25 helm 3.8 howard 5.2 mil the pointless signing of ott

sooo realistically i dont see holland trading for either. 

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Ok , so we predicted where our main problem would be this year on the blue line. Yes Kronner will be back but I'm not overly confident that he will see the year out before he's laid low by another injury, unfortunately he is also on the downward spiral in his career. So is there any player in the system who could make us better? Russo is a very interesting option in my view, apart from Renouf who is injured we don't have much else.The trade route looks the only option to improve the roster this season. Trouba? Pipe dream really we haven't got or are willing to give up what the Jets want for him, Fowler is all about salary dump for the Ducks and unless we offload roster players this isn't likely to happen either. 

So is there anyway to land one of them or with some great juggling maybe capture both? 

My suggestion is thus, the Jets need something in return and they've said a like for like LH shooting D. Well I've also heard they aren't happy with their nm situ. So we offer up Mrazek and a sweetener of Ouellet and I would feel this would be an offer too good for them to refuse, yes XO isn't a like for like but the offer of Mrazek is the dealer. Coreau then gets called up to split duties with Howard. I feel Jared is going to be our Bishop down the line.

Kenny then rings the Ducks and offers them Tatar Smith and a 1st in 2018 for Fowler and Stoner. This gives them the wiggle room to reup Lindholm and a scoring winger they are after plus a serviceable Exp D in Smith to replace Stoner. 

Wings then place Miller Ericsson and Ott on waivers, place Kronwall on LTIR. Then call up Mantha Bertuzzi to replace the waiver players.

Wings now look this.

AA Nielson Abdelkader

Zetterberg Larkin Mantha

Vanek Helm Nyqvist

Bertuzzi Glendening Sheahan

Jurco

Touba DeKeyser

Fowler Green

Stoner Marchenko

Sproul

Howard Careau 

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This is somewhere Trouba would love to play, not only because of hometown, but he would step right into the role he is looking for. Hands down the #1 guy on the right hand side.

That being said, he may be looking for $5.5M, but much like Kucherov in tampa, I could see Jake signing a small bridge deal, 1-2 yrs at a lessor rate in order to fit under whatever cap space they make for him.  Knowing that after the deal, he will get his 8 year $6M+ contract in the prime of his career.

There are simple ways of clearing space.  You dump the players for what little you can get, or simply just waive them.  Sure, you don't dump all their salary, but it does give you some relief to where you have just enough space.  If you're lucky someone snags them up for free for a gamble.  Right now, if they cannot be traded, I would waive both Ericsson and Howard. You'd have to bring up Coreau or Pasquale, but you'd have nearly $2M in cap space, then you could deal away a couple of assets for Trouba and/or Fowler.  It sounds like it  would be hard, but it can be done. Ideally you could trade away cap, but if Holland had to, he could get it all worked under the cap.  Heck, if WPG keeps struggling on the O side, they just might want to take someone like Nyquist or Tatar off our hands.

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there are no quick fixes. Trouba is going to cost Larkin plus or Danny D. plus which is very telling on how all the other players are viewed by other GMs.

Also if Holland isn't even willing to offer AA plus for Fowler Wings won't get him either because others will offer a better package. Oh how handy a guy like Chychrun would have been now but no rather trade him for Clownski and use the space for another patchwork fix on July 1.

it's not really rocket science either put in a competitive offer for Fowler or pray that the Jets bomb and Cheveldayoff will lower his asking price which would still be high...or else play out this season with this defensive core and finally sell at the trade dead line to get even more picks. there is no other option, period.

The Toronto Maple Leafs learned it the hard way but they learned it.

I mean look around the league trades are at a premium and we've seen how much defensive studs cost..either another stud or a top 4 nhl widewinger. Quantity for quality just doesn't work anymore


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18 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Ok , so we predicted where our main problem would be this year on the blue line. Yes Kronner will be back but I'm not overly confident that he will see the year out before he's laid low by another injury, unfortunately he is also on the downward spiral in his career. So is there any player in the system who could make us better? Russo is a very interesting option in my view, apart from Renouf who is injured we don't have much else.The trade route looks the only option to improve the roster this season. Trouba? Pipe dream really we haven't got or are willing to give up what the Jets want for him, Fowler is all about salary dump for the Ducks and unless we offload roster players this isn't likely to happen either. 

So is there anyway to land one of them or with some great juggling maybe capture both? 

My suggestion is thus, the Jets need something in return and they've said a like for like LH shooting D. Well I've also heard they aren't happy with their nm situ. So we offer up Mrazek and a sweetener of Ouellet and I would feel this would be an offer too good for them to refuse, yes XO isn't a like for like but the offer of Mrazek is the dealer. Coreau then gets called up to split duties with Howard. I feel Jared is going to be our Bishop down the line.

Kenny then rings the Ducks and offers them Tatar Smith and a 1st in 2018 for Fowler and Stoner. This gives them the wiggle room to reup Lindholm and a scoring winger they are after plus a serviceable Exp D in Smith to replace Stoner. 

Wings then place Miller Ericsson and Ott on waivers, place Kronwall on LTIR. Then call up Mantha Bertuzzi to replace the waiver players.

Wings now look this.

AA Nielson Abdelkader

Zetterberg Larkin Mantha

Vanek Helm Nyqvist

Bertuzzi Glendening Sheahan

Jurco

Touba DeKeyser

Fowler Green

Stoner Marchenko

Sproul

Howard Careau 

That would work ONLY if Kronwall qualifies for LTIR and Holland would waive Ericsson.  I don't like the idea of trading Mrazek, but at this moment, Trouba is very VERY important to acquire. If Holland and Co. had enough faith in Jimmy and that Coreau would be good enough to become our #1 after Jimmy, then I could see it as an option. You'd also be able to give Trouba top dollar now, as long as E was waived and Kronwall went to LTIR. I honestly don't see any of Ott, Miller or E getting waived...although I'd enjoy not having E's salary on this team.

 

 

Edited by LeftWinger

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8 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

there are no quick fixes. Trouba is going to cost Larkin plus or Danny D. plus which is very telling on how all the other players are viewed by other GMs.

Also if Holland isn't even willing to offer AA plus for Fowler Wings won't get him either because others will offer a better package. Oh how handy a guy like Chychrun would have been now but no rather trade him for Clownski and use the space for another patchwork fix on July 1.

it's not really rocket science either put in a competitive offer for Fowler or pray that the Jets bomb and Cheveldayoff will lower his asking price which would still be high...or else play out this season with this defensive core and finally sell at the trade dead line to get even more picks. there is no other option, period.

The Toronto Maple Leafs learned it the hard way but they learned it.

I mean look around the league trades are at a premium and we've seen how much defensive studs cost..either another stud or a top 4 nhl widewinger. Quantity for quality just doesn't work anymore

 

Clownski? Grow up Frank. 

Name calling and putting down an 18 year old kid for what? Cause you want to throw a hissy fit.

Boohoo we didn't choose who you want.  Get over it.

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Clownski? Grow up Frank. 
Name calling and putting down an 18 year old kid for what? Cause you want to throw a hissy fit.
Boohoo we didn't choose who you want.  Get over it.


whatever his name is also I didn't put him down. I just don't know his name usually I call guys whose name is too complicated just Apu.

Also Mr. Super fan I am more than over it. But it will backfire especially with this defense and every potential help costing a lot!

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Let's do our best not to turn this thread into name calling and crying about players ( I know, coming from me that is nuts, eh?) But when the trade was made (Datsyuk) most of us loved it because it 99% meant Holland was going to go after Stamkos hard and most folks like the Cholowski pick.  But when Stamkos didn't even give us an opportunity to woo him, it all kinda felt like salt being rubbed in our wound or not being able to draft Chychrun.  You're right though, there is really no need to take it out on Cholowski, or Holland for that matter, for I truly believe he thought he had a shot to sign Stamkos. But, when that all fell apart, he resorted back to the old Holland, throwing contract around to his own UFA's in order to not lose out on too many people.

I truly beleive that if Stamkos would've signed here, Helm would not be here.  Obviously Nielsen wouldn't, but I do believe he still would've given Vanek and Ott the contracts. Dekeyser would've gotten less, and he may have tried harder to trade Howard during the summer.  That's not Cholowski's fault, but I do blame Holland for showing desperation and throwing that contract to Helm, without waiting to see what else presented itself.  If we happened to lose Helm, then all would not have been lost, because as alluded to earlier, AA has every bit of speed of Helm PLUS has a scoring touch. Blame Holland for this debacle...and in a way, blame to people who do a poor job of selling our beautiful city and it surrounding area's, because if nobody has ever lived here, or visited outside of just playing hockey here, they really don't know how great of a place it is to live. I've since moved away, but I spent 42 years here.

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42 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

So we offer up Mrazek and a sweetener

Im sorry but this is a horrible idea. Mrazek is Detroit's top asset right now. Larkin has the potential to be a very very good player but hes not going to challenge for an Art Ross, Richard, Hart trophy, or be a one of the top 5 guys at his position. Mrazek on the other hand has the potential to be a top 5 goalie. The goaltender is your teams most important player and you better be getting something better than Trouba back for your goalie of the next 12 years. Especially when you have no goalie in the pipeline  anywhere near his caliber. Coreau may end up being a decent backup but comparing a him to Bishop is silly. 

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Like I said I'm not putting the kid down it's just his name is too complicated just like AAs real name is.

I think the Ott contract was the best signing he provides some grit, is cheap and his caphit can even disappear by sending him down.

I'm just stating that there are no quick fixes and that doesn't fall on Blashill it falls on Holland. He constructed this roster which is very close to the cap and has major flaws sure Tampa and the Panthers will more than others expose them but the reality is..this team is overmatched against every team that has a top defensive pairing and a number one center. People think Ottawa will be an easier opponent well they don't have a number one center but their top 4 pairing is very good, so it's not going to be much easier.

I would love a quick fix as much as everybody but look around the League it's not going to happen because nobody is trading studs without expecting studs back, that's why good draft picks are becoming more and more valuable.

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Fix this team? This season? Not possible. One of the things many of us have talked about for several years is, what is the direction of this team? Are we rebuilding? Are we going for the cup? Is just maintaining the streak the sole focus? Now we have none of that. Holland himself has stated "we are not a cup contender". Ok fine. Most os us would agree with that statement. If that is true, then why did we sign veteran guys like Ott, Vanek, and neilson-players that cup contenders look to bring in each year? All those moves have done is force talented youth back to the minors, eat up our cap space, and keep us from making other moves.

Now the past is the past and we can't do anything about that-good or bad. So what about the future?

1. Mantha needs to be brought up asap. Mantha, larkin, and AA should be on a line together playing 15+ mins per game every game. No "tinkering" by Blashill. Play them! They are our future and our present. If that means we need to cut/trade/waive player x y or z, then so be it.

2. Play the young D. ATM we have no idea if any of Oullett, Sproul, Russo, etc... can play at the NHL level. How do we find out? By playing them.

3. Mrasek may or may not become a star. He needs to play. But at the same time the only way we can ever hope to get anything for Howard is to play him. We need to go back to an every other game rotation for the G's. Hope Mrasek improves and that Howard creates value.

4. We all need to understand that this team has been trending down for several years and that will continue. Yes we will finish somewhere between 5th and 10th in the EC. Meaning we should end up with the 8th to 16th draft pick. We are still better than a few teams so we will not end up with the top pick. Accept this now, it will make the season easier to deal with.

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Any trade made will need to be dollar in dollar out.  I doubt the Jets want to take Nyquist plus someone else to clear enough room for the Wings to sign Trouba.  The Ducks don't want to take salary back.  That means not one but two trades.  Who does Detroit have that makes significant salary that another team might want?  Nyquist, maybe Dekeyser.  Trouba for Dekeyser is probably a win for Detroit long term, but still leaves them playing 5 guys who are 4-7 caliber players.  Nobody else is going to want Nielsen for 6 years, or Abdelkader or Helm even if they;d waive their NTC.  Zetterberg and Kronwall aren't going anywhere either.  Howard and Ericsson are unmovable.  I doubt anyone wants Green for 2 years.  Tatar, Sheahan, Vanek and Smith clear a little room, but not enough unless you trade all four and replace them with minimum salary players.

 

In other words, buckle up, things aren't going to change any time soon.

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14 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Any trade made will need to be dollar in dollar out.  I doubt the Jets want to take Nyquist plus someone else to clear enough room for the Wings to sign Trouba.  The Ducks don't want to take salary back.  That means not one but two trades.  Who does Detroit have that makes significant salary that another team might want?  Nyquist, maybe Dekeyser.  Trouba for Dekeyser is probably a win for Detroit long term, but still leaves them playing 5 guys who are 4-7 caliber players.  Nobody else is going to want Nielsen for 6 years, or Abdelkader or Helm even if they;d waive their NTC.  Zetterberg and Kronwall aren't going anywhere either.  Howard and Ericsson are unmovable.  I doubt anyone wants Green for 2 years.  Tatar, Sheahan, Vanek and Smith clear a little room, but not enough unless you trade all four and replace them with minimum salary players.

 

In other words, buckle up, things aren't going to change any time soon.

Why woluld we trade Dekeyser for trouba? DD is the better player. Yes he now costs more but Trouba hasn't signed his new deal yet. Both have played 3 seasons in the NHL and DD has more points, better career +/- numbers, etc... We need to keep DD and ADD Trouba so that they can be our top pair.

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5 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

things aren't going to change any time soon

Helm´s and Glend´s contracts are bad, Abdul´s and Frans´s contracts will really hurt us like 3-4 yrs from now. Does not make any sense to pay huge price for D now - why? I don´t believe top pairing D would really change something significantly, team core is really weak, we need to upgrade everything. Numbers are easy - nearly 50% of budget is buried in unmovable/bad contracts for players we won´t be able easily move out. Maybe 2018/19 will be possible to move out few contracts, if there will be some rebuilding teams. I don´t think it´s possible to move somewhere now or in next two years. For sure not with Holland.

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2 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

whatever his name is also I didn't put him down. I just don't know his name usually I call guys whose name is too complicated just Apu.

There's quite a bit of irony here. You're named after the character who was always offended because Homer wouldn't remember/use his real name.

 

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