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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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3 hours ago, kliq said:

The one problem with your plan is that we can only protect 3 D, so if you have DD, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and Trouba I can pretty much guarantee that the one you dont protect will be in Vegas next year.

I am not up on the expansion draft at all. But I thought I read you could do 4 D and 1 less F. If you can't that is fine as well. Get Trouba and Fowler then go after Shattenkirk in UFA, leaving Green, Kornwall and Ericsson unprotected and pray that one is taken.

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2 hours ago, Richdg said:

I am not up on the expansion draft at all. But I thought I read you could do 4 D and 1 less F. If you can't that is fine as well. Get Trouba and Fowler then go after Shattenkirk in UFA, leaving Green, Kornwall and Ericsson unprotected and pray that one is taken.

You can protect the following:

a) Seven forwards, three defensemen and one goaltender

b) Eight skaters (forwards/defensemen) and one goaltender

 

So you can technically protect 4 D, but you if you do, you go from being able to protect 10 skaters to 8 skaters.

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13 hours ago, kliq said:

The one problem with your plan is that we can only protect 3 D, so if you have DD, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and Trouba I can pretty much guarantee that the one you dont protect will be in Vegas next year.

Wait we're getting Shatty, Fowler, AND Trouba?

Speaking of being high on something... how about Sproul!?

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22 hours ago, kliq said:

I'm not going through your posting history, I was commenting on your last post. I'm sure you were just being cynical for the sake of being cynical.

I'm talking about that post.  I didn't say Mantha alone would be enough.  I said as long as it wasn't Mantha plus an unprotect first or a high end prospect, which means AA or Svechnikov at this point, you do it without thinking.

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3 hours ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

I think he was referring to Richdg post.

Also to the poster who said leave Green unprotected. That might be a huge mistake given his year thus far. 

I agree with Green, but, if we do acquire both Trouba and Fowler, you may want to protect them along with DD. But if we get either, it'll most likely just be one. In that case, for example, if Green continued his pace, I protect Fowler, DD and Green. With the way Howard is playing, if not traded at tge deadline, he may be our one player to be selected.

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3 hours ago, e_prime said:

Wait we're getting Shatty, Fowler, AND Trouba?

Speaking of being high on something... how about Sproul!?

I am so happy he is finally getting a chance to play. I think he is a guy we need to play in order to progress his development, because of all the kids on D I believe he has the highest ceiling.

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree with Green, but, if we do acquire both Trouba and Fowler, you may want to protect them along with DD. But if we get either, it'll most likely just be one. In that case, for example, if Green continued his pace, I protect Fowler, DD and Green. With the way Howard is playing, if not traded at tge deadline, he may be our one player to be selected.

Do you really want to waste a protection on a guy with 1 year left? I would rather protect a guy like Spoul or XO.

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

I'm talking about that post.  I didn't say Mantha alone would be enough.  I said as long as it wasn't Mantha plus an unprotect first or a high end prospect, which means AA or Svechnikov at this point, you do it without thinking.

ok, sure.

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On 22/10/2016 at 0:22 AM, nyqvististhefuture said:

You just said it ... Potential number 1 , If it was ekman Larsson  I'd reconsider , just think since we won't be cup contenders next few seasons we can wait for trouba to be a ufa in 4 years and come back home (I'm convinced he'd come to Detroit the second he gets the chance) and that way we keep both 

 

and it's not easy to add a high end winger these days either, mantha scored again tonight and I think given the right chance he'd really succeed ,wings should use him for his shot on the powerplay and not use his size to park him in front that's not his job, give those roles to abdelkader and sheahan, he was never used good

 

You don't get OEL without a package that starts off with Larkin under any circumstances. We also cannot wait FOUR YEARS to finally acquire a defenseman. Mantha is exactly the type of guy you give up to get a guy like Trouba. You gotta give to get. We'd have to clean out the farm to land OEL. 

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1 hour ago, kliq said:

 

Do you really want to waste a protection on a guy with 1 year left? I would rather protect a guy like Spoul or XO.

 

It's a risk either way.  If we get one of the targets, XO or Sproul will probably be included in a deal. Fortunately we can only lose 1 player. But until a trade happens, its all guessing. You're right though, Vegas would probably ****** Sproul up before a 32 year old.

As of right now:

Protect:

Abby, Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, AA, Nielsen.

(Now which forward do you use the last one on, Helm or Sheahan?)

DD, XO, Sproul

Mrazek

 

LOL, the curse word filter, filtered out the word used for a quick grab! Rhymes with catch.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Lets not over think what I said earlier and worry about the expansion draft to much. Nor do I want to highjack this thread. But they do tie together a bit. Lets pretend for a minute that my trades go through. We send Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith for Trouba, our 2017 1st for Fowler and some combination of younger players not named Larkin, MANtha, or Mrasek and get Shattenkirk. Use some combo of Oullett, Sproul, Sheahan and Marchenko to get him. 

We now finish the year and are getting ready for the ED. We have 2 options, one of which is 8 skaters and 1 G. We have to include all NMC contracts. We have 1-Neilson. All 1st and second year pros are naturally protected and don't have to be on our list/can't be drafted. Without reading all of the fine print, this should cover Larkin (second year pro) Svechnikov (1st year pro) and Lil Bert (second yea pro). Our 8 skaters can then be: Neilson, Mantha, AA, DD, Trouba, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and 1 other skater, plus Mrasek. LV can only draft 1 guy from our team. Most of what is left is older guys with large contracts. Guys like: Z, Helm, Glendening, Sheahan, Abby, Green, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Howard. Not one of those guys being gone is going to have a major impact on our team by being drafted. In fact LV would be doing us a favor in taking any one of those guys/contracts.

 

Again I will add, I am not an expansion draft guru. The fine print on 1st/2nd year players needs to be clarified. When does larkin start getting counted as a 3rd year guy? I am not 100% sure on that.

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Let's just pretend any of this is remotely possible (it's not), there isn't a GM in the league that would make that many massive changes to a team that is (on paper) pretty good, and has won 4 straight against some pretty good teams. Why make so many trades to make your team arguably worse? At best these are lateral moves giving up a ton of offense and depth to solidify the back end...

That Trouba trade that you keep bringing up has to be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen. We're giving up TWO 50 point wingers and a 15-20 point defenseman for a defenseman who as of yet, hasn't hit 30 points. This coming from one of the biggest proponents out there for Trouba. I don't think it's out of the question that he could become a 40-50 point defenseman, but he could also tap out at 30 points. That would be a massive over payment for that sort of production. Not to mention the fact that Winnipeg are already loaded up front. Why would they want two more wingers? They're also an internal cap team, and you think they're going to take on over $10M in salary, with two of the three looking for raises after this season?... There's just so much wrong with that trade from every perspective..

I'm not as high as some on Fowler. I would trade for him, but I wouldn't use our first on him. I'd consider Ouellet and a 2nd or 3rd, but that's about as high as I would go... I have zero interest in trading for Shattenkirk, who by all accounts wants to test free agency next offseason.

The 8 skater, 1 goalie option is there but I'd be shocked if any teams use this as you'd be protecting two less players. You can be guaranteed most (if not all) teams and definitely Holland will be going with the 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie option. So bringing in any more than one defenseman wouldn't be a smart move in my opinion. I honestly don't think we're going to make any moves, and I'm okay with standing pat for now. I'd do a Smith or Ouellet plus a pick or prospect for Trouba trade, but that'd be about it for me...

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I agree, there's no way to get all three players. I'm holding out for two, but in reality we may only get one....or none. 

I think it'll be Fowler.Winnipeg is just too unrealistic in their demands, but that's because they're in the driver's seat. If we can clear space somehow to fit Fowler in, I think he could be had for a pick. At most a young player and lower pick. 

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Let's just pretend any of this is remotely possible (it's not), there isn't a GM in the league that would make that many massive changes to a team that is (on paper) pretty good, and has won 4 straight against some pretty good teams. Why make so many trades to make your team arguably worse? At best these are lateral moves giving up a ton of offense and depth to solidify the back end...

That Trouba trade that you keep bringing up has to be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen. We're giving up TWO 50 point wingers and a 15-20 point defenseman for a defenseman who as of yet, hasn't hit 30 points. This coming from one of the biggest proponents out there for Trouba. I don't think it's out of the question that he could become a 40-50 point defenseman, but he could also tap out at 30 points. That would be a massive over payment for that sort of production. Not to mention the fact that Winnipeg are already loaded up front. Why would they want two more wingers? They're also an internal cap team, and you think they're going to take on over $10M in salary, with two of the three looking for raises after this season?... There's just so much wrong with that trade from every perspective..

I'm not as high as some on Fowler. I would trade for him, but I wouldn't use our first on him. I'd consider Ouellet and a 2nd or 3rd, but that's about as high as I would go... I have zero interest in trading for Shattenkirk, who by all accounts wants to test free agency next offseason.

The 8 skater, 1 goalie option is there but I'd be shocked if any teams use this as you'd be protecting two less players. You can be guaranteed most (if not all) teams and definitely Holland will be going with the 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie option. So bringing in any more than one defenseman wouldn't be a smart move in my opinion. I honestly don't think we're going to make any moves, and I'm okay with standing pat for now. I'd do a Smith or Ouellet plus a pick or prospect for Trouba trade, but that'd be about it for me...

To get you have to give. Smith is a UFA after this year and doesn't have much trade value because of it, but he does fit the bill of what the Jets want-LH Dman in mid 20's. Nyquist and Tatar are not stars nor are they guys that can carry their team to the PO's. They are secondary scorers and those guys are always available on the UFA market-IE easy to pick up. Neilson and Vanek come to mind.

As for the assesment on our team, it is the same as it has been for the last 5 years or so. We will finish somewhere between 6th and 12th in the EC just making or just missing the PO's. To be a better team we need better players. Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk are all improvements over what we currently have on the BL. Shattenkirk is a proven 45 point guy, Fowler a proven 35 point guy, and Trouba has the POTENTIAL to be better than either of them. Add in DD and you are looking at one of the best top 4 BL groups in the entire league. All of which are 27 years old or younger-a group we should be able to keep together for the next 6+ years.

Yes the chances of this happening are less than 1%. But this is a fan forum and that is what we do. Play the what if game. There are other players out there that could also be available and we are just not hearing about them. These guys just happen to be in the news.

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So instead of arguing any of the multiple points I made about why this would be a horrible trade for both teams, you just add another reason why it wouldn't work? You say "to get you have to give", and follow that up by saying that Smith doesn't hold much value due to being a pending UFA, and Nyquist and Tatar are secondary scorers that can be found in any UFA class... Awesome pitch! Where does Cheveldayoff sign again?

Our team is not at all the same as it was 3 years ago, let alone "5 years or so". We have had a huge turnover in that time, and we're continually getting younger (and in my opinion better) each year. We may finish between "6th - 12th in the East, but that's not reason for a team on the upswing to blow it up...

Yes, this is a fan forum and everyone has an opinion (no matter how outlandish they may seem), but we should try to at least keep it somewhat realistic, shouldn't we? You said yourself, these are the (only) three big names on the market, and you think it's possible to get all three in a salary cap league?

By the way, 40+ points for Green isn't out of the question. DeKeyser is a solid number 2. Although Smith doesn't produce the points we all wish he would, he still possesses the puck a ton and is a solid top 4. Sproul could become the offensive force on the blueline we've been longing for. Ericsson in a reduced role on the 3rd pair where he should be, has looked great. Marchenko is a decent bottom pair guy as well. Ouellet has looked good. Point is, while our defense isn't the strongest, it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem. If we landed ONE top pair guy, we would have a very good defense corp. We don't need to add two or three in my opinion...

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23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

So instead of arguing any of the multiple points I made about why this would be a horrible trade for both teams, you just add another reason why it wouldn't work? You say "to get you have to give", and follow that up by saying that Smith doesn't hold much value due to being a pending UFA, and Nyquist and Tatar are secondary scorers that can be found in any UFA class... Awesome pitch! Where does Cheveldayoff sign again?

Our team is not at all the same as it was 3 years ago, let alone "5 years or so". We have had a huge turnover in that time, and we're continually getting younger (and in my opinion better) each year. We may finish between "6th - 12th in the East, but that's not reason for a team on the upswing to blow it up...

Yes, this is a fan forum and everyone has an opinion (no matter how outlandish they may seem), but we should try to at least keep it somewhat realistic, shouldn't we? You said yourself, these are the (only) three big names on the market, and you think it's possible to get all three in a salary cap league?

By the way, 40+ points for Green isn't out of the question. DeKeyser is a solid number 2. Although Smith doesn't produce the points we all wish he would, he still possesses the puck a ton and is a solid top 4. Sproul could become the offensive force on the blueline we've been longing for. Ericsson in a reduced role on the 3rd pair where he should be, has looked great. Marchenko is a decent bottom pair guy as well. Ouellet has looked good. Point is, while our defense isn't the strongest, it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem. If we landed ONE top pair guy, we would have a very good defense corp. We don't need to add two or three in my opinion...

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

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1 hour ago, Richdg said:

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

Not saying this is a troll post, but your solution is to trade away two of our best goal scorers and replace those 50-60 goals(25-30 for each of Tatar and nyquist)  with a rookie and a guy whose never scored more than 8 goals in the nhl? 

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3 hours ago, Richdg said:

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

Which reasonable contracts are you speaking of? I'll agree on Nyquist but both Tatar and Smith are on expiring contracts. Tatar will be looking for at least what Nyquist is making, and Smith could very well walk in the summer. Not very attractive to a internal cap team that has issues attracting free agents...

You don't replace two of (arguably) your top goal scorers with rookies and expect similar results... I'm very high on Svechnikov too but he isn't close to being NHL ready in my opinion.

Green doesn't "need to be replaced" as long as he's still producing and playing at a high level, which he currently is. I'd even consider re-signing him for another short stint at a slightly lower cap hit after next season if his offensive ability is still prevalent. I fully expect Kronwall to go on LTIR at some point, possibly this season, and possibly for the duration of his contract. Like I said previously, Ericsson is a very capable defender in a reduced role, slightly overpaid, but we'll have more than enough ELC's on the books over the next few years to even that out...

Smith, although not the stud we all hoped he'd become is still a very solid top 4 defenseman, and that's about what you can expect from a late first round pick. So no, he certainly isn't a "bust". I'll agree it's too early to tell what we have in Marchenko, Ouellet and Sproul, which is all the more reason to see how they turn out rather than massively overpaying for three defenseman...

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I do still think we need a legit number one at some point, but I do agree that we're not under near as much pressure to go out and get one immediately with the way we're currently playing. Maybe the price tag for Trouba goes down over the next month (before the December 1st deadline), if Winnipeg continue to play sub par hockey and Cheveldayoff feels a bit of pressure to make a deal...

It's extremely foolish to think we need 2 or 3 though, and even more so to think it's even a possibility to trade for 3 top four defensmen...

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I do still think we need a legit number one at some point, but I do agree that we're not under near as much pressure to go out and get one immediately with the way we're currently playing. Maybe the price tag for Trouba goes down over the next month (before the December 1st deadline), if Winnipeg continue to play sub par hockey and Cheveldayoff feels a bit of pressure to make a deal...

It's extremely foolish to think we need 2 or 3 though, and even more so to think it's even a possibility to trade for 3 top four defensmen...

Even if. Due to the cap we'd have to let got one or even two of them for probably nothing or at least far less than what we paid. If Holland tried to sell the farm for that I'd be chiming in the calls for his head.

 

9 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They haven't played as well as the record indicates. If it wasn't for goaltending bailing them out they ccould easily have one or two wins.

We've won exactly one game only due to our goaltending. And that was the game in New York. The reason for the rest was not only our goaltending. Wings just played good hockey overall.

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19 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They haven't played as well as the record indicates. If it wasn't for goaltending bailing them out they ccould easily have one or two wins.

Not that I agree, but I'm assuming this speaks of the Wings.

Try it this way, regarding the Jets.

They have played better than their record indicates.  If it wasn't for goaltending they could easily have one or two more wins.

*coughJimmyHowardcough*

Edited by e_prime

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I'd say, if we continue to win 5 out of 7 games our "need" for Trouba most definitely decreases, thus making the return, from us at least, less. If WPG had an idea to trade with Detroit, their worst case scenario is us doing good and not desperate. 

Even with our current run, I can still see Holland inquiring about Trouba, but maybe Fowler turns into the better option. 

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