Grand Rapids Griffins 2016-17 Discussion Thread

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Since the prospects section didn't mention the AHL by name I figured I'd put this in here. I don't know about other people, but I follow the Griffins pretty closely throughout the year to see how guys are doing.

So, to kick things off. Anthony Mantha has 5 goals in 3 games so far, just scored a hat trick tonight against Iowa. As Blashill would say, "not an elite player at the AHL level"

Edited October 19, 2016 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

11 minutes ago, Detroit # 1 Fan said:

Since the prospects section didn't mentioned the AHL by name I figured I'd put this in here. I don't know about other people, but I follow the Griffins pretty closely throughout the year to see how guys are doing.

So, to kick things off. Anthony Mantha has 5 goals in 3 games so far, just scored a hat trick tonight against Iowa. As Blashill would say, "not an elite player at the AHL level"

Wow. How'd the goals look, were there sniper kind of shots involved? Either way, exciting to hear. I'm still pretty hyped about him.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The Griffins were down 3-1 to Iowa at one point, but Mantha didn't like that much. They just won 4-3, Coreau is now 3-0 on the season. Callahan has 4 points in the three games as well. Lots of good happening down in GR.

[Dabura 12,207]

A highly motivated, extremely skilled, 6'5" goal-scoring winger?

22 years old?

First-round pick?

Two seasons of AHL experience?

 

 

Yeah. Who needs one of those when you've got Steve Ott and Drew Miller?

[Dabura 12,207]

57 minutes ago, Dabura said:

A highly motivated, extremely skilled, 6'5" goal-scoring winger?

22 years old?

First-round pick?

Two seasons of AHL experience?

 

 

Yeah. Who needs one of those when you've got Steve Ott and Drew Miller?

KH: "You don't get it, Dabura. If Mantha were in the lineup, he'd only be getting fourth-line minutes. As a Griffin, he gets to play big minutes. It's all about what's best for the player."

D: "Who says he has to play on the Wings' fourth line? What if we were to send one of Ott/Miller down and bump, say, Sheahan to the fourth line? That opens up a sp--"

KH: "KIDS AREN'T THE ANSWER! THIS IS A MAN'S LEAGUE!" [kicks puppy]

HSJ: "You are a golden god, Ken."

KH: "Just make sure you say that in your next puff piece."

Edited October 19, 2016 by Dabura

[amato 3,210]

Going to the game Saturday.. the wings can have mantha after that  

 

Excited for the playoff rematch! 

[krsmith17 7,191]

I missed the first game last Friday (caught the highlights), but watched the games Saturday night and last night and the Griffins have looked really good. Mantha doesn't belong in the AHL, he'll be up soon enough. The goal in his first game as well as all three last night were all on the power-play, bombs from the point. I wouldn't want him on the point in Detroit, but I would love to see him on the right half boards, to be the sniper on that side of the ice. But of course he will be used as the net front because he's BIG... His goal in the second game was his only even strength goal, but showed off his speed and skill to beat the defender (who was at least 2-3 steps ahead of him) to a loose puck and go in on a breakaway and picked his corner. Very nice goal. He also had a 2-on-1 with Lorito in the second game where he made a perfect saucer pass over the sprawling defender, but Lorito rang it off the pipe. I've been very impressed with Mantha's overall game and the progress he's made, he looks dominant out there on most shifts and rarely loses puck battles. He still doesn't back-check as hard as he fore-checks but I'm okay with that, we need some more offensive minded players. F*** having every single player play defensive minded hockey...

Aside from Mantha, the only other players that really stood out in both games were Callahan and Russo. I still think Callahan should be on the Wings over Miller / Ott. He brings all the same intangibles, relentless on the fore-check, plays with a bit of an edge, can kill penalties, but could also provide a bit of offense. Russo is definitely our best defender down there, he's a very good two-way defenseman. His offense is what usually gets him noticed but his defensive game is probably a little underrated.

Svechnikov was all over the ice Saturday night, and had so many unbelievable opportunities, before finally burying one in the third period. I didn't really notice him much last night for whatever reason though. Same goes for Bertuzzi. Although Turgeon didn't get much ice time, I'm impressed with him every time he's on the ice. I don't think he'll ever be a great offensive player, but I'm thinking he could be another Sheahan type, defensive center with offensive upside. I really wasn't impressed with Sadowy in either game, hopefully it's just a matter of adjusting to the pros. I wasn't ever really high on Hicketts, mainly because of his size, but man does he ever continue to impress. He's very quick and deceptive, and his hockey IQ is off the charts. He made one massive hit behind his own net on a guy twice his size in the game Saturday night. He may actually have a shot in the NHL. I've been high on Coreau since last season, and he continued to impress in training camp and pre-season this year. He had a bit of a rough game last night, but still made some key saves.

Great start to the season for the Griffs and I expect they'll keep rolling. Nice to see them get victories over two former long-time teammates Ferraro and Hoggan too.

[marcaractac 3,963]

Hicketts is a guy who has all the tools and the right mindset to be an NHL player despite his size. 

[Jesusberg 1,256]

I'm still not entirely sure why Miller/Glendening/Ott are being compared to Mantha/AA. I understand that people want to see them in the lineup over the aforementioned grinders, but it's players like Sheahan, Helm and/or Abdelkader that have to drop down the depth chart. If that happens, one of those fourth-line guys would get pushed out, but I sure as hell don't want to see Mantha on the fourth line. AA's more suited for that kind of role, but there are always going to be complaints about his TOI/GP.

Management needs to feel as if Mantha/AA can do more in the top-nine group than someone like Sheahan. Helm's line is clicking right now, and I don't see the team leaving Abdelkader on the fourth line for an extended period of time. IMO, Mantha's best chance at an extended call-up this year (outside of injury) is Sheahan struggling in the top-nine, then getting pushed down to the fourth line.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Jesusberg

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't think anyone is really comparing Miller / Glendening / Ott to Mantha / Athanasiou, but both should be in the lineup over the two scrubs. An ideal lineup would include a 4th line of Sheahan - Glendening - Helm and both Athanasiou and Mantha in the top 9. So no, they're not directly taking their spots in the lineup but indirectlty, they are... I hate the mentality that we need a grinding 4th line. Mantha absolutely could play on a 4th line, he just shouldn't play on "our 4th line" with Glendening and Miller or Ott... If we wanted to role 4 balanced lines, with Athanasiou - Helm - Mantha as our 4th, I'd be completely okay with that. Of course though, we know that would never happen with Holland and Blashill running this ship...

[Jesusberg 1,256]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Im a little frustrated by the "dont want to see him on the 4th line" talk.  Maltby had 50 goals in juniors.  I LOVED watching him on our 4th line for 15 years.  If Mantha was Connor McDavid or Steven Stamkos, he'd have been on the Wings first line from day 1.  He's not.  He's Anthony Mantha.  If that means he's the most adept 4th line winger in the NHL, then so be it.  I'm perfectly fine with having the best 10 spot forward in the league.  Everyone needs to dial back the Mantha can only play top 6 minutes talk.  We should all just be wanting to see him in the lineup.  If you honestly like having Miller or Ott in instead of Mantha, then I am seriously wondering how you perceive what you watch.

That's great, but I'm not sure what Maltby scoring 50 in junior hockey has to do with his role in the NHL. He never potted more than 14 goals in a year, and cracked 30 points twice. Maltby altered his game and at the NHL level, and received the minutes/role he did because of his ability to play a two-way game.

It's not "everyone", but for many discussing his role on the team, they're simply repeating what management is saying. To their point, why use Mantha in the lineup if he's only going to play 10 minutes a night? If he can displace someone who is currently in a top-nine role (not necessary top-six) and take their spot on the power play, then I'm all for it

I doubt you'll find many people who want Miller/Ott over Mantha - just ones who want Mantha in the right role on this team.

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone is really comparing Miller / Glendening / Ott to Mantha / Athanasiou, but both should be in the lineup over the two scrubs. An ideal lineup would include a 4th line of Sheahan - Glendening - Helm and both Athanasiou and Mantha in the top 9. So no, they're not directly taking their spots in the lineup but indirectlty, they are... I hate the mentality that we need a grinding 4th line. Mantha absolutely could play on a 4th line, he just shouldn't play on "our 4th line" with Glendening and Miller or Ott... If we wanted to role 4 balanced lines, with Athanasiou - Helm - Mantha as our 4th, I'd be completely okay with that. Of course though, we know that would never happen with Holland and Blashill running this ship...

I get where you're coming from, but I'm not in a rush to break-up that Nyquist-Helm-Vanek line.

Last season was pretty ugly in terms of "balance", but Blashill appears to be off to a better start this season. The forwards (outside of AA and Ott) are playing within roughly four minutes of each other's TOI/GP. Not to mention, he appears to have created some clearly-defined roles when it comes to the PP and PK. Outside of Nielsen, no one else is double-dipping between the special teams units.

So I guess my point is less about fourth line vs. top-nine/top-six, and more about having the right opportunities/roles for guys like AA and Mantha. So sure, on paper, Mantha could jump into the lineup for Miller/Ott, but he's not taking over their PK minutes. Like I said, I think Mantha's best opportunity occurs if Sheahan struggles in his current role.

[marcaractac 3,963]

I have no issue with AA on the 4th line if it means benching Miller and rolling 4 lines. 

Tatar-Larkin-Hank

Abby-Nielsen-Mantha

Goose-Helm-Vanek

AA-disney.com-Sheahan

Miller and Ott as healthy scratches who can fill in from time to time when need be. That is how it should be. But instead, we have two lines built to defend, including one of the top 6. It's stupid.  

Abby-Nielsen, disney.com-Helm as pk forwards. Literally no use for Miller on this team anymore. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by marcaractac

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'll agree that you shouldn't shuffle a line that is clicking so well early on, but you wouldn't even have to if you wanted 4 fairly even lines. But let's say we did take Helm off that line and put Athanasiou in there, does that line get worse? Maybe, maybe no. Helm has played great early on, so "demoting" him would suck, but in my opinion it's Nyquist and Vanek that have had the crazy chemistry. Helm has helped, but I don't think putting Larkin or Athanasiou there changes much.

I also agree that it's nice to see the minutes being somewhat evenly distributed, and I like having players only on one specialty teams unit as well. I'd even remove Nielsen from the PK unit. You need 10 players to fill 2 power-play units and 8 players to fill 2 penalty-kill units. Coincidently that equals the 18 skaters that dress every night... My ideal lineup would be something like this...

Zetterberg - Larkin - Tatar

Abdelkader - Nielsen - Mantha

Vanek - Athanasiou - Nyquist

Sheahan - Helm - Glendening

 

Power-Play units

 

Abdelkader (net front)

Larkin - Zetterberg - Tatar

Green

 

Nyquist - Nielsen - Mantha

Vanek - Smith

 

 

Penalty-Kill units

 

Helm - Sheahan

DeKeyser - Ouellet

 

Glendening - Athanasiou

Ericsson - Marchenko

[marcaractac 3,963]

Christ, how did I overlook Helm as a pk guy? 

[Jesusberg 1,256]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

I have no issue with AA on the 4th line if it means benching Miller and rolling 4 lines. 

Tatar-Larkin-Hank

Abby-Nielsen-Mantha

Goose-Helm-Vanek

AA-disney.com-Sheahan

Miller and Ott as healthy scratches who can fill in from time to time when need be. That is how it should be. But instead, we have two lines built to defend, including one of the top 6. It's stupid.  

Abby-Nielsen, disney.com-Helm as pk forwards. Literally no use for Miller on this team anymore. 

Agreed. This is probably my biggest "Uhh, what the...?" moment through three games. At the very least, I wish they'd switch Abdelkader and Tatar.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'll agree that you shouldn't shuffle a line that is clicking so well early on, but you wouldn't even have to if you wanted 4 fairly even lines. But let's say we did take Helm off that line and put Athanasiou in there, does that line get worse? Maybe, maybe no. Helm has played great early on, so "demoting" him would suck, but in my opinion it's Nyquist and Vanek that have had the crazy chemistry. Helm has helped, but I don't think putting Larkin or Athanasiou there changes much.

I also agree that it's nice to see the minutes being somewhat evenly distributed, and I like having players only on one specialty teams unit as well. I'd even remove Nielsen from the PK unit. You need 10 players to fill 2 power-play units and 8 players to fill 2 penalty-kill units. Coincidently that equals the 18 skaters that dress every night... My ideal lineup would be something like this...

Right, and I don't necessarily think it's Helm stirring the pot, but the three have worked well together. Larkin or AA could work just as well in that spot, if not better. Even during the last preseason game against Toronto, Vanek and Nyquist were showing signs of chemistry.

Honestly, looking at your line combinations, I don't think we're all that far off. Generally, I just try to stick within the parameters of what I think management is willing to do. It's not like I don't want to see a faster team, capable of scoring more often. Just usually more a matter of, "considering the way this team is run" for me. 

The only real snag for me is having AA on that second PK unit. Not that I think it's impossible, but it still feels as if he's on a short leash with Blash. Felt like he didn't see much ice time after that failed drop-pass to Miller during the last game. Ideally, everyone has their role, but it's not a huge deal (for me, personally) if Nielsen is playing on the secondary units of the PP and PK.

Also, curious about what happens when Kronwall returns. Kind of hope they stick with four forwards on each unit, but I think Smith has looked solid on the PP.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree, and I don't see my lineup as a realistic expectation with Holland and Blashill in charge, however I think that's a problem. We have the talent to ice a competitive lineup every night, the issue isn't talent, it's "the way this team is run"... Guys that can only play defensive hockey, kill penalties and block shots that provide zero offense are a dying breed in this league. I just wish they would become extinct in Detroit sooner rather than later...

[kickazz 5,459]

Bold prediction : Mantha makes the Wings roster soon after this thread gets moved the Prospects section.