What Happens to the Defense Once Kronwall Returns?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

With Sproul playing well (still eating crow), I'm wondering what happens to the defense once Kronwall is healthy enough to return. Even though there's no timetable for him to jump back into the lineup, he's practicing with the team. IMO, Marchenko's struggled quite a bit (so has DeKeyser, but they're not scratching him), so I wonder if they'll play Sproul over Alexey.

Also, missed this last night. Not surprised to see fans voice this opinion, but I didn't expect it from Roose:
 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Jesusberg

[GMRwings1983 8,798]

My guess is that Marchenko will sit for Kronwall.  

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

If it were up to me Ouellet would sit. No way you sit Sproul with the way he has been playing.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Marchenko or if Blashill really wants a righty on each pair then I wouldn't be surprised if Smith sat. I'd say Marchenko is the worst defenseman in the lineup right now

[kliq 3,763]

As long as the cap works, I dont think they have to waive anyone. They only have 2 guys right now in the press box, and I'm pretty sure you are allowed 3. If anything, XO would just be a health scratch. Or am I missing something?

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Who sits when Kronner gets back? I'd say Kronner could! why upset the apple cart? Unless we are losing a D in a trade anytime soon it'll be Sproul who sits, vet wins the tie as Babs use to say. My issue would be Nic could actually slow us down in transition, but hey I'm just a fan not the GM or coach.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

33 minutes ago, kliq said:

As long as the cap works, I dont think they have to waive anyone. They only have 2 guys right now in the press box, and I'm pretty sure you are allowed 3. If anything, XO would just be a health scratch. Or am I missing something?

The issues arises once Jurco returns, which looks like it could happen around the second week of November.

I can't find it right now, but I think one of the guys from WiiM mentioned Jurco's cap hit being a problem. With the LTIR relief, having Jurco instead of AA on the roster leaves them with around 305K. I'm not sure what the issue is, to be honest. Maybe it has something to do with how the cap is calculated on a daily basis, or maybe they were incorrect, and that's why I can't find it anymore.

Either way, if they're going to carry eight defensemen instead of 14 forwards, they'll either have to send AA down to Grand Rapids, or waive one of Ouellet/Sproul. Or they could waive Jurco. Who knows at this point?

Edited October 28, 2016 by Jesusberg

[krsmith17 7,191]

Or they could... waive Miller...

[e_prime 1,936]

26 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Or they could... waive Miller...

 

As much as this would personally pain me... I think having all of our defensive options available to us until we make a trade or whatever is KEY.  ABSOLUTELY MUST HAPPEN.

Edited October 28, 2016 by e_prime

[LeftWinger 5,027]

XO is already a healthy scratch. We are under the cap, when Kronwall returns nobody will need to be waived, the question is who becomes the other healthy scratch. It may be an unpopular opinion, but I betting Smith. Blashill likes the right handed shots on all pairs. I could see Marchy rotating with Smith, but I'm betting Smith goes out first.

When Jurco comes back, then it'll get interesting. IMO, despite his options, you cannot send AA back to GR. But, it is a business...

[GMRwings1983 8,798]

2 hours ago, hillbillywingsfan said:

If it were up to me Ouellet would sit. No way you sit Sproul with the way he has been playing.

He's already sitting.  Marchenko and Smith are the most logical choices.  You can't sit Ericsson, because he's our only enforcer. DeKeyser has immunity (even though he doesn't deserve it) and Green is the only defenseman on this team who can score a goal, besides Sproul.  Speaking of Sproul, he should not sit.  He's looked solid and needs to play to help his development.  I don't see Marchenko doing anything better than him.    

Edited October 28, 2016 by GMRwings1983

[brett 1,029]

f*** this team if sproul goes

[Juklitz 85]

Sprouly won´t go pressing the box, his direct impact is too obvious to ignore. Not a single D last few years made such an impression like he did in few matches (yeh, not a big challenge with these Quindlicky-es etc).

I´d say Smith/Marchenko : 40/60

Anyway, you can´t just cure bad knee, believe Kroner won´t make whole season...

[Jacksoni 418]

I have no idea who sits. I am more concerned about the dynamic of the team. Right now our defense is decent, miraculously enough. I bet most would not have thought that going into this season. I for one have scratched my head a couple of times this summer over the issue.

Ideally I'd like to have Kronwall as the 7th defenseman. Let him sneak in here and there, show what's up. If he's healthy, in game form and delivers he climbs up. Hopefully management has the same attitude.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

As important as I think it is to keep Sproul in, I think another consideration is keeping Ericsson on the left side. I think that has really helped his game this year rather than past years when he's been on the right with Kronwall etc. Of course, being on the 3rd pair also seems to have put him in a better position.

Because of this, I think Smith comes out over Marchenko despite Marchenko being the weakest link so far. Otherwise, maybe Smith can play on the right side.

When Jurco's back, I hope we still keep 8 D and AA up. This past game Z and AA found some good chemistry and that could be a good combo as we're still finding the ideal lines. Miller would be my choice to be pushed out, though he's been his usual self and has produced better than usual. At the beginning of the season I would have said Ott, but I'll eat a little crow and say he's been better than I expected and provides some good drive to that 4th line. These 2 are still non-essential as we build for the future of this team and Sheahan, Jurco, AA all should have places in the lineup over them. 

[Jesusberg 1,256]

So just to add to this, someone asked the exact question in today's edition of Ansar Khan's mailbag (I swear, it wasn't me. Thankfully, my name's not Lenny. I'm sorry if you're reading this, Lenny.)

Anyway, here's the link and Ansar's answer -  https://goo.gl/ucU1mb

Q: What happens to (Ryan) Sproul when Kronwall and Jurco come back? – Lenny

A: Sproul will remain on the roster, no danger of being waived. The club has told him to get his own place in the area.

Hard to predict when Kronwall is ready. He's been skating off and on and there's no telling when the knee will feel good enough to play.

When he's cleared, the Red Wings won't need to make any moves because they have the roster spot and he's been on the cap while on short-term injured reserve. They'll carry 13 forwards and eight defensemen.

Who sits out on D? I think it'll be an ongoing competition between Sproul, Marchenko and Ouellet.

The problem arises when Jurco is ready, following off-season back surgery. He's projected to return in mid-November. If Kronwall is back when Jurco is ready and they have no other injuries, they'll need to trim a player. Andreas Athanasiou is waiver-exempt, but I think he's playing too well to be sent down. They might be forced to waived Ouellet.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Jesusberg

[marcaractac 3,963]

They should try to trade Ouellet now. rather than be forced to waive him later on. 

If he isn't in the future plans, it's time to move him. if injuries hit the defense, Russo deserves a look. 

 

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Gotta be Marchenko. He's been rough. I'd hate to see Ouellet waived, he's going to be solid. In an ideal world he and Sproul would be playing. But E is playing well (can't believe it) and Kronwall is a vet so of course he's going to play.

[shocky2002 36]

He'd be third line D. But in reality he should f*** off to the KHL or something.

[MDCard 48]

I thought our worst defenseman last year was Ericcson.  Second worst was Kronwall.

Ericcson is better this year so far.  Kronwall's best days are behind him. 

So in the long run players like Sproul, Oullette, and Marchenko are more valuable than Kronwall who is running on fumes.  He is one big hit away from being back on IR.  This should really be Kronwall's last year and he should pull a Rafalski and just retire. 

I would not be willing to give up on Marchenko or Oulette based on the results of the first 8 games of this year...that is pure foolishness.

[barabbas16 499]

Kronwall retiring would have negative impacts on the team cap-wise, would it not?  Isn't he signed for two more seasons?

[Jesusberg 1,256]

13 minutes ago, barabbas16 said:

Kronwall retiring would have negative impacts on the team cap-wise, would it not?  Isn't he signed for two more seasons?

Yep. This WiiM article covers the cap recapture penalties: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/4/25/11487900/red-wings-cap-recapture-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens

I'm assuming they'd get hit with the Summer '16 ($1,166,667 x 3 years), and not the Summer '17 ($2,125,000 x 2 years).

[kliq 3,763]

The recapture is only if he retires healthy. He wouldn't retire, if he cant play anymore due to knee issues he would go on LTIR.

With that being said, I think you can only have so much on LTIR so that would mean we would likely have to trade his contract or Franzen's contract to a team like Arizona where they would use it against the cap.

In 2016, can Detroit trade a contract along with cash? So for example....."Wings trade Franzen, 9million, and a 5th round pick to Arizona for a 7th round pick"?

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

The recapture is only if he retires healthy. He wouldn't retire, if he cant play anymore due to knee issues he would go on LTIR.

With that being said, I think you can only have so much on LTIR so that would mean we would likely have to trade his contract or Franzen's contract to a team like Arizona where they would use it against the cap.

In 2016, can Detroit trade a contract along with cash? So for example....."Wings trade Franzen, 9million, and a 5th round pick to Arizona for a 7th round pick"?

 

 

I feel like if cash could be moved this day and age, that Holland would have simply paid a team to take Datsyuk's cap hit. 

[kliq 3,763]

30 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

 

I feel like if cash could be moved this day and age, that Holland would have simply paid a team to take Datsyuk's cap hit. 

Well Datsyuk's situation was unique because Arizona doesn't have to actually pay Datsyuk, but I think you are right. Anything Detroit pays I believe would be considered "retained salary".

Edited October 29, 2016 by kliq