Conflict in the Crease

[kliq 3,755]

22 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

Shocky have you had a chance to read the forum rules?  You're obviously a very smart guy but just in case you forgot I'll just leave this here.  Even the smartest of us can forget things sometimes:

· DON'T personally attack other members. This includes name-calling, flame-baiting, etc.. If you can't discuss your point with maturity then don't discuss it. People that violate this rule will be dealt with swiftly.

Of course I'm not a mod so I personally have no jurisdiction on the matter, but I'd hate for the forums to lose a very smart poster because of a ban.

 

Are the Axe or Bill accounts opened now?

[xault 272]

I just don't think it's gonna matter who in net with the skaters we are icing in front of them each night.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

3 minutes ago, xault said:

I just don't think it's gonna matter who in net with the skaters we are icing in front of them each night.

Most likely not, however, one will give us a better chance at "stealing" a game. That kind of thing is important when you're grasping for a playoff spot at the end of the season.

[Dabura 12,206]

What's that I hear in the distance? WHY, YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT IS SIR JARED COREAU'S THEME MUSIC!

[chaps80 1,591]

19 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Most likely not, however, one will give us a better chance at "stealing" a game. That kind of thing is important when you're grasping for a playoff spot at the end of the season.

Either way, I hope they aren't within grasping distance of a playoff spot. Last season I was in the "Keep the streak alive" camp. But after getting the boot in 5 games in yet another first round loss, I realized right now a playoff berth is useless and a top 14 pick (top 4 would be nice, but this team isn't that bad yet) would help out much more. They should use this season to get Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi, Sproul, Oulette, Mrazek lots of playing time. Maybe even get Coreau in a few games, since he's most likely going to be the backup in Detroit next season. As long as it's not a full out tank job, missing is fine. I know Holland and Illitch will never see it that way though.

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

What's that I hear in the distance? WHY, YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT IS SIR JARED COREAU'S THEME MUSIC!

That would be cool to see Bishop 2.0 sometime this season. 

[chaps80 1,591]

On November 16, 2016 at 3:10 PM, frankgrimes said:

It's far from a joke Mrazek hasn't shown the consistency needed to be the number 1, period. As soon as other teams started to figure him and his overly aggressive style out his performances dropped of.

Howard has been the better goalie this season so if Brazen wants to be the started he has to show it simple as that.

It is a joke. I've heard others bring up accountability. It seems as if Howard has never had to be accountable for his bad play, other than being benched for a bit of time here and there. He'd always get his job back even if he didn't earn it, just because he's Jimmy Howard I guess? Then when the team finally decides enough is enough and he gets demoted he finally decides to play the best he has in years. Should be a "Too little, too late. The team has moved on" situation, not a "Here Jimmy, have some more starts cause your not sucking this year..yayyy!!" situation.

And those who are talking about not coddling players, Howard stayed in the AHL until he was forced to move up because he was out of exemptions at 25. They didn't want to "rush his development". Mrazek was in the NHL full time at 23 by reaching out and taking the spot with his play. Couldn't deny him. 

I was a huge Howard fan at one point, still a fan, but i'm just callin it like I see it now. Time for him to move on.

[kliq 3,755]

5 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

It is a joke. I've heard others bring up accountability. It seems as if Howard has never had to be accountable for his bad play, other than being benched for a bit of time here and there. He'd always get his job back even if he didn't earn it, just because he's Jimmy Howard I guess? Then when the team finally decides enough is enough and he gets demoted he finally decides to play the best he has in years. Should be a "Too little, too late. The team has moved on" situation, not a "Here Jimmy, have some more starts cause your not sucking this year..yayyy!!" situation.

And those who are talking about not coddling players, Howard stayed in the AHL until he was forced to move up because he was out of exemptions at 25. They didn't want to "rush his development". Mrazek was in the NHL full time at 23 by reaching out and taking the spot with his play. Couldn't deny him. 

I was a huge Howard fan at one point, still a fan, but i'm just callin it like I see it now. Time for him to move on.

I was the one who brought up coddling. I never said Mrazek was being coddled, what I said was he shouldn't have to be coddled because that is what certain posters were suggesting. I am a huge Mrazek fan and am behind him, but what I want is for Mrazek to demand that job by his play, not be handed it despite his play.

Edited November 18, 2016 by kliq

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

5 hours ago, chaps80 said:

And those who are talking about not coddling players, Howard stayed in the AHL until he was forced to move up because he was out of exemptions at 25. They didn't want to "rush his development". Mrazek was in the NHL full time at 23 by reaching out and taking the spot with his play. Couldn't deny him. 

Yes Mrazek did come and take the job away. The thing is once you take a spot you have to put a stranglehold on it so it cannot be taken back. That is the step Mrazek has failed to deliver on. Twice hes been for the most part given the team but hasnt played consistent enough to make the spot his permanently.  I know you wish Howard were gone last year but you should take the fact that he wasn't as a blessing in disguise. This teams going to be bad this year and the next. More than likely the year after that too. Mrazek getting 40-50 games instead of 60-70 this year isnt more important than Howard getting 30+ with solid play. You get 30+ games of Howard playing as he has so far this season then hes going to have quite a bit of value come deadline day. Howard showing well with a good workload this year helps the organization more than Mrazek playing 20 more games behind a crap team. He gets to look forward to playing behind crap teams the next two years so why rush it unless you absolutely have to.

Edited November 18, 2016 by GoalieManPat

[marcaractac 3,961]

Some goalies just need a lot of work to get into their rhythm. Kind of hard for Mrazek to find his right now when he barely gets to play. Even some of the best goalies in the league go through slumps, but Blash is always too quick to turn to Howard. Just another example of how the team is being run to do what it takes to squeeze into the playoffs for a meaningless streak rather than for the development of the young players on the team. 

All Blash is gonna do is overexpose Howard and destroy any trade value he may have been building up early in the season. 

[wings_fanatic 677]

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Some goalies just need a lot of work to get into their rhythm. Kind of hard for Mrazek to find his right now when he barely gets to play. Even some of the best goalies in the league go through slumps, but Blash is always too quick to turn to Howard. Just another example of how the team is being run to do what it takes to squeeze into the playoffs for a meaningless streak rather than for the development of the young players on the team. 

All Blash is gonna do is overexpose Howard and destroy any trade value he may have been building up early in the season. 

Thank you! I mean the fact that Howard plays anymore games than a proper bacckup, or even the fact that he is still on this team just shows how management is just stuck in the past and are seemingly holding on, hoping to just get into the playoffs. Time to look to our future. 

[LeftWinger 4,936]

IMO, Holland needs to field calls NOW about Howard and trade him while his value is relatively high. I'll cut him some slack with the Montreal game, because right now they are the best in the NHL, and he was due for a down game.  But, if in his next start he takes another poop, we probably missed the opportunity to get high value for him. I think if there is any substance to the rumor with Calgary, this trade needs to be done.  If you can get your D better, then your goalie will be better, thats not rocket science. If they could acquire Hamilton, then it needs to be done.  I believe any one of Trouba, Fowler, Shattenkirk, Hamilton makes this team harder to play against and makes our D that much better.  I'm still in favor of acquiring a D now, then clearing cap space before July 1 and throw your basket at Shatty.  Unless Winnipeg comes down with their demands, Trouba seems to be a pipe dream.  But Fowler or Hamilton are attainable...maybe both, then you wouldn't have to worry about Shatty in July.

[Echolalia 2,961]

10 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Some goalies just need a lot of work to get into their rhythm. Kind of hard for Mrazek to find his right now when he barely gets to play. Even some of the best goalies in the league go through slumps, but Blash is always too quick to turn to Howard. Just another example of how the team is being run to do what it takes to squeeze into the playoffs for a meaningless streak rather than for the development of the young players on the team. 

All Blash is gonna do is overexpose Howard and destroy any trade value he may have been building up early in the season. 

Mrazek started 8 of the first 11 games of the season.  How many losses must the Wings endure for Mrazek to get into rhythm (assuming he even gets into rhythm- so far in his young career Mrazek has been unable to consistently play at a starting goalie level).  

When it comes down to it, Blashill is in the business to win.  Not to give Mrazek as many starts as he needs to try to piece together some consistency.  The whole situation becomes even more loony to think about when the alternative is one of the statistically best goalies in the league thus far.  I mean, I know people irrationally hate Howard.  And I know people irrationally love Mrazek.  But I never thought it would get so bad that people would actually actively vouch for Blashill to play the guy whos 35th in save percentage and 39th in goals against over the guy who's 6th in the league in both stats.

[wings_fanatic 677]

1 hour ago, Echolalia said:

Mrazek started 8 of the first 11 games of the season.  How many losses must the Wings endure for Mrazek to get into rhythm (assuming he even gets into rhythm- so far in his young career Mrazek has been unable to consistently play at a starting goalie level).  

When it comes down to it, Blashill is in the business to win.  Not to give Mrazek as many starts as he needs to try to piece together some consistency.  The whole situation becomes even more loony to think about when the alternative is one of the statistically best goalies in the league thus far.  I mean, I know people irrationally hate Howard.  And I know people irrationally love Mrazek.  But I never thought it would get so bad that people would actually actively vouch for Blashill to play the guy whos 35th in save percentage and 39th in goals against over the guy who's 6th in the league in both stats.

We hate howard because he never fails to completely fall apart each season. He represents the very idea of our team being struck in the past, just trying to hold on. 

[kliq 3,755]

3 minutes ago, wings_fanatic said:

We hate howard because he never fails to completely fall apart each season. He represents the very idea of our team being struck in the past, just trying to hold on. 

People don't like Howard because the expectation on him have always been unrealistic. The guy is an average starting goaltender, and fans want him to be elite, plain and simple. He wont consistently win you games on his own, he needs a very good supporting cast. What he will do is provide you with good goaltending more often then not. Put this guy on Chicago, I could easily see him winning a cup.

Lets not forget either, its not like Howard has had elite D in front of him since Lidstrom/Stuart left. Its easy to put all the blame of a team collapse on the goalie.

With that being said, I don't think anyone is against trading him when the opportunity comes up due to the cap-hit.

1 hour ago, Echolalia said:

Mrazek started 8 of the first 11 games of the season.  How many losses must the Wings endure for Mrazek to get into rhythm (assuming he even gets into rhythm- so far in his young career Mrazek has been unable to consistently play at a starting goalie level).  

When it comes down to it, Blashill is in the business to win.  Not to give Mrazek as many starts as he needs to try to piece together some consistency.  The whole situation becomes even more loony to think about when the alternative is one of the statistically best goalies in the league thus far.  I mean, I know people irrationally hate Howard.  And I know people irrationally love Mrazek.  But I never thought it would get so bad that people would actually actively vouch for Blashill to play the guy whos 35th in save percentage and 39th in goals against over the guy who's 6th in the league in both stats.

Well said!

[marcaractac 3,961]

4 hours ago, Echolalia said:

Mrazek started 8 of the first 11 games of the season.  How many losses must the Wings endure for Mrazek to get into rhythm (assuming he even gets into rhythm- so far in his young career Mrazek has been unable to consistently play at a starting goalie level).  

When it comes down to it, Blashill is in the business to win.  Not to give Mrazek as many starts as he needs to try to piece together some consistency.  The whole situation becomes even more loony to think about when the alternative is one of the statistically best goalies in the league thus far.  I mean, I know people irrationally hate Howard.  And I know people irrationally love Mrazek.  But I never thought it would get so bad that people would actually actively vouch for Blashill to play the guy whos 35th in save percentage and 39th in goals against over the guy who's 6th in the league in both stats.

They also won six straight in that stretch. it's not like Mrazek was losing games at that time.

[wings_fanatic 677]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

They also won six straight in that stretch. it's not like Mrazek was losing games at that time.

Right. Anyone that doesnt see blashill has screwed up with the goaltending situation is blind. Its not even funny how poorly he has handled that which i am surprised about considering he was once a goalie himself.

[FireCaptain 563]

0.964 tonight, Howard's doing everything he can, except score.. with some goal support this team would be challenging for 2nd in the Atl. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I would go as far and sad he has been the best player this year.

[kliq 3,755]

5 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

I would go as far and sad he has been the best player this year.

We're not always on the same page Frank, but I 100% agree with you.

[Richdg 267]

Good to see Jimmy bounce back after his last game.

Much of the love/hate between Jimmy and Mrasek goes to style of play. Jimmy plays a positional game vs Mrasek plays an athletic game. There is also a belief amoung all fans in all sports that the next prospect is better than the vet in front of them.

One thing no one can deny is Jimmy has been the better G this season to date. That drives up his trade value. This is a good thing.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Hammond on waivers

[LeftWinger 4,936]

We need to trade Jimmy NOW while his value is high(er.)  Sure, if he continues to play this way it will only make him more valuable, but do we risk holding on to him too long and having his stock fall? What I am saying, we're talking about Holland here, of course we'll hold on to him until his stock falls.

[kliq 3,755]

35 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

We need to trade Jimmy NOW while his value is high(er.)  Sure, if he continues to play this way it will only make him more valuable, but do we risk holding on to him too long and having his stock fall? What I am saying, we're talking about Holland here, of course we'll hold on to him until his stock falls.

If I am the GM of Calgary, I'm not ready to bite yet. The exact reason why you want him traded, is why I believe other GM's will wait.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Just now, kliq said:

If I am the GM of Calgary, I'm not ready to bite yet. The exact reason why you want him traded, is why I believe other GM's will wait.

I agree. I am sure they want to see if he remains consistent.  Which, if he does, is better for us.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 18/11/2016 at 0:30 PM, LeftWinger said:

IMO, Holland needs to field calls NOW about Howard and trade him while his value is relatively high. I'll cut him some slack with the Montreal game, because right now they are the best in the NHL, and he was due for a down game.  But, if in his next start he takes another poop, we probably missed the opportunity to get high value for him. I think if there is any substance to the rumor with Calgary, this trade needs to be done.  If you can get your D better, then your goalie will be better, thats not rocket science. If they could acquire Hamilton, then it needs to be done.  I believe any one of Trouba, Fowler, Shattenkirk, Hamilton makes this team harder to play against and makes our D that much better.  I'm still in favor of acquiring a D now, then clearing cap space before July 1 and throw your basket at Shatty.  Unless Winnipeg comes down with their demands, Trouba seems to be a pipe dream.  But Fowler or Hamilton are attainable...maybe both, then you wouldn't have to worry about Shatty in July.

i don't think there's that much to the Calgary rumour. but maybe. They traded for Elliott in the summer to be their guy, and he has a low cap hit. He isn't doing well there though (3-8-0, 3.36 GAA, .882 SV%) while he was solid in STL, but that may have had alot to do with the team in front of him. Now that he's on a lesser team, he's been struggling. Maybe they are kicking tires looking elsewhere...