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krsmith17

Martin Frk claimed off waivers by Red Wings

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7 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

You realize this is untrue, right?  They could have easily kept Frk and/or Pulk without waiving either Miller or Ott.  Frk and Pulk were waived because they're not NHL caliber players.  Period.

Please explain how they could have kept Frk / Pulkkinen without waiving anyone with under $600K in cap space...

What part of the statement "And now we only lost one mid tier prospect in favor of Miller / Ott..." is "untrue"?

Did you miss the part where I said "Who knows if he'll ever make the Wings roster, but regardless he's a solid addition to Grand Rapids"?...

You may not care about these players because you don't think they'll ever develop into NHL caliber players, and that's fine. However, I don't like losing these players because they do still have potential to become decent NHL players. But more than that, I'm also a fan of the Griffins and players like Frk help that team. If Frk becomes a career AHLer, I'd still prefer him in Grand Rapids, rather than Charlotte or any other American League team.

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3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What part of the statement "And now we only lost one mid tier prospect in favor of Miller / Ott..." is "untrue"?

 

I'm guessing the bone of contention is the "mid-tier" part. Neither of these guys could garner even a late round pick in a trade, then once waived and picked up, they couldn't stay on another NHL team either.. That, to most observers, isn't mid-tier - it's low-tier.

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I think the thing I find comical are all the fans who were claiming that we gave away the talent in Frk and Pulkkinen for nothing.  Yet, each of these players played a game or two for their new clubs and then were waived.  If Holland is the worst GM for waiving these players and getting nothing in return, then I wonder how fans of the Wild and Carolina feel.  You see, the waiver wire is littered with a bulk of 4th line players.  Everyone knows this.  So when a player like Pulkkinen and Frk hit the wire, other teams aren't finding gold when they pick them up.  They are doing it for short term evaluation. 

Anyway, the point is that the Wings aren't shedding top tier talent to waivers.  They are dropping 4th line pieces that anyone can get off the waiver wire.  The Wings could go hunting like this as well, but every team has 4th line plugs waiting to get into the lineup.

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Please explain how they could have kept Frk / Pulkkinen without waiving anyone with under $600K in cap space...

What part of the statement "And now we only lost one mid tier prospect in favor of Miller / Ott..." is "untrue"?

Did you miss the part where I said "Who knows if he'll ever make the Wings roster, but regardless he's a solid addition to Grand Rapids"?...

You may not care about these players because you don't think they'll ever develop into NHL caliber players, and that's fine. However, I don't like losing these players because they do still have potential to become decent NHL players. But more than that, I'm also a fan of the Griffins and players like Frk help that team. If Frk becomes a career AHLer, I'd still prefer him in Grand Rapids, rather than Charlotte or any other American League team.

AA could have been sent down, or Kronwall could have gone on LTIR, or both.  Then Pulk and/or Frk could have stayed on the roster, they could have even played.  The issue is that they wanted to keep Sheahan and Helm off the 4th line, and Trashill wants pluggers or guys with speed on the 4th line.  That means Pulk and Frk can't play there, and since they don't want Helm or Sheahan there, there's no room for them in the lineup.

They aren't mid-tier prospects anymore.  They're guys who don't have NHL level talent and aren't likely to develop it at their age.  These guys just have no value because EVERYONE has guys like them.  Sure, MAYBE they're just late bloomers and they'll suddenly "get it" at 25 years old and turn into regular 20+ goal guys at the NHL level.  And MAYBE my wife brings home a hot 20 year old and tells me that she's my birthday present.  Both are pretty unlikely.

 

And no, I don't particularly care about helping GR.  AHL level talent is all over the place, they lose one guy they get someone else instead, and I'd rather see legit prospects getting the ice time.

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I disagree. Saying that Pulkkinen / Frk are "low-tier" prospects would suggest that there are no prospects lower than them on the totem pole (which there are).
To me, top-tier are your Mantha / Athanasiou / Svechnikov type prospects, mid-tier are your Bertuzzi / Frk / Nosek prospects, and low-tier are your Aubry / Callahan / Nastasiuk prospects... So yes, I stand by them being "mid-tier" prospects.

They are not 4th line plugs though, that is (Miller / Ott) who we decided to keep in favor of these guys. I was never mad about losing Pulkkinen or Frk to waivers because I thought they were huge loses. I was mad that we lost them in favor of two 4th line scrubs. If we lost Pulkkinen in favor of keeping Mantha in Detroit, I wouldn't have said s***...

Anyway, we did give them away, and although they likely won't / wouldn't be a huge loss, it is nice to have Frk back, if for no other reason than depth in the minors.

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Dickie, I don't think we're that far off on our line of thinking. We both agree that our 4th line could be a lot better with certain players scratched and other players moved down. Like I said, I would have been completely okay with waiving them, if that were the case. And we Athanasiou and Mantha in the lineup. Like I've been saying all along... I just didn't like losing them (no matter what you or I see them being worth) over scrub 4th liners...

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Keep Frk and Pulk or keep Miller and Ott, you're keeping guys who are at best border line NHL players who would be reserves on a good team, and if the Wings were looking at what was best long term they'd be reserves here, too.

Frk and Pulk WERE mid level prospects,  At this point they've shown that they're unlikely to be NHL players.  That makes them low level prospects, if you even want to call them prospects any more.  I don't consider guys who are career AHL/European league players prospects.

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17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Pulkkinen cleared waivers and will remain in the Minnesota organization. He will be playing in Grand Rapids this Friday... against the Griffins as a member of the Iowa Wild...

Yes, Frk has already been assigned to the Griffins and will likely suit up this weekend. They didn't do the same for Pulkkinen because there was a little risk involved in putting in a claim for both players. If any other team after us in the order, put in a claim, we would have to make room for Pulkkinen / Frk on the Red Wings roster. Because we are up against the cap, there was no way to do so without losing another player... and we obviously couldn't make room by waiving a key player like Miller or Ott... I think Holland was a little surprised Pulkkinen went unclaimed, so he was willing to risk putting in a claim for Frk. It worked out, and Frk is back with the organization.

I'm personally happy that of the two players, we were able to get Frk back. Who knows if he'll ever make the Wings roster, but regardless he's a solid addition to Grand Rapids. And now we only lost one mid tier prospect in favor of Miller / Ott...

Thanks for the explanation!

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38 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Keep Frk and Pulk or keep Miller and Ott, you're keeping guys who are at best border line NHL players who would be reserves on a good team, and if the Wings were looking at what was best long term they'd be reserves here, too.

Frk and Pulk WERE mid level prospects,  At this point they've shown that they're unlikely to be NHL players.  That makes them low level prospects, if you even want to call them prospects any more.  I don't consider guys who are career AHL/European league players prospects.

They would be reserves on my team as well. I'd still rather have Frk, a player that could potentially turn into something on my 23-man roster over any past their prime scrubs...

I consider a kid that just turned 23 a few weeks ago still a prospect. Odds are against him for sure but I don't see it any less likely that he becomes a 3rd liner at the NHL level than Nosek or Holmstrom or whoever else...

Anyway, I'm done with this topic. Glad to see Frk back with the organization.

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36 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Frk and Pulk WERE mid level prospects,  At this point they've shown that they're unlikely to be NHL players.  That makes them low level prospects, if you even want to call them prospects any more.  I don't consider guys who are career AHL/European league players prospects.

This right here.

Pulk and Frk are low tier prospects at this point.  They may hit the NHL, but they won't ever be talent that will be above the 4th line unless they "get it" late in their careers which is unlikely.  Now I will agree that maybe we look at Ott and Miller and instead of giving them minutes, we give one of our own homegrown talent the minutes instead.  Just keep in mind that even if we didn't resign Miller and Ott and we used Pulk and Frk that we wouldn't see a huge difference in performance.  It may be a minor one, but it wouldn't be noticeable. 

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12 minutes ago, TimeBinder said:

??????  The trash was put out - pickers went through it and decided it was still trash.  Why are we recycling our own trash???????

I could go through the previous thread about Frk being waived and picked up by Carolina and grab at least 20 comments from people who said that Holland should be fired for wasting our talent or not trading him before waiving him.  I don't think he is trash, but he is not NHL material.  That doesn't change the fact that people many people here thought that Pulk and Frk were bonafide NHL talent and had an inflated value put on them.  Now, I would hope that many of them have seen the truth.

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Honestly, I'd like to see what Frk can (potentially) do with the Wings before I judge what he's capable of doing/not doing at the NHL level. Pulkkinen played 70 games for the Wings (78 if you include the eight in Minny). Frk's played two with the Hurricanes.

I don't think he's necessarily a 15-20 goal guy, but I'd like to see him get some actual reps in before tossing him into the scrap pile. You can argue that they already did that, but then why claim him? More than anything, I think he was a victim of the numbers game, and they felt as if they'd get more out of Athanasiou. It's always good to have some insurance.

I wasn't beat-up about losing him to Carolina, but I don't think it means he's hot garbage. It's pretty easy to claim a guy is s*** after he's been waived. Plenty of people were acting like it was a big deal, and harping on Holland for poor roster management after it happened. Crazy turnaround.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I still happen to think Frk showed some great chemistry with Larkin and Mantha in pre-season. Not saying call him up, but he did lead GR last season while playing with AA and Mantha alot. It's great to have him back in the organIzation to allow him to continue to learn our system and develop his chemistry more. If we don't re-sign Ott, Miller or Vanek, there may be a spot for him next season...although I do imagine Vanek gets re-signed unless Vegas offers him $6M+.

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Teams have other ways to evaluate their prospects than give them NHL games. Coaches can watch them in practice and see they don't have the skating ability, compare them to the players they're competing against to see if they're strong enough, and they can break down every goal for and against to see if it would be scored against NHL competition. The idea that they have to play 20+ games with top 6 players to know if they're going to make it is BS.

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3 hours ago, Nightfall said:

I could go through the previous thread about Frk being waived and picked up by Carolina and grab at least 20 comments from people who said that Holland should be fired for wasting our talent or not trading him before waiving him.  I don't think he is trash, but he is not NHL material.  That doesn't change the fact that people many people here thought that Pulk and Frk were bonafide NHL talent and had an inflated value put on them.  Now, I would hope that many of them have seen the truth.

I agree with this. I find it funny how those same posters have nothing to say about this anymore.

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Hahaha so funny that the Wings got him back. Losing any player to waivers and then getting them back off waivers a month later doesn't happen often. People were pissed he was waived and plucked, but he couldn't make the Carolina roster, then no one else wanted him when they in turn waived him. He was never a big loss, and now he's back by default. That tells ya something.

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