joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) So what is Blashill going to do to make this team play a sustainable type of winning hockey? I believe their is something wrong with his philosophy. Sure we can squeak out a couple of wins here and there but the team is fundamentally flawed. He has trouble identifying the teams strengths and weaknesses. I know the roster has issues but a good coach can adapt. Since he has taken over the team has nosedived in all possession metrics and individual players performance. What is Blashill good at exactly? The team look completely out of sync more often than not. I truly believe this team is much better than their performances in the last two years Edited November 2, 2016 by joesuffP 1 The Secret reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 2, 2016 I saw the projected lines for tonight and I'd say that is his first problem, if not the biggest. My opinion of Nyquist and Helm is no secret, but damn when players seem to have chemistry don't split them up! He's got Nyquist in the top 6 and Helm on the 3rd. He has Z still centering the 2nd line. This takes a lot from me to say, but if Nyquist is needed in the top 6, put Helm there with him! Z is too broke down to be top 6 anymore. That is my opinion on Blashill's problem. Tonight's 3rd line should be Tatar-Z-Abby. Top line should be Larkin-Nielsen-AA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) The roster has its limitations of course but theirs no excuse to have zero structure skating around like idiots chasing the puck. It could be a motivation thing and nobody is executing the game plan. All I know is it looks ugly even in their wins. Hearing his post game comments I don't think he realizes how bad they are and how much needs to be improved I think their center depth is a huge issue along with the D Edited November 2, 2016 by joesuffP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 2, 2016 Isn't AA a natural center? IMO their centers should in this order then: Nielsen Helm AA Zetterberg Yes, Helm #2 because of his chemistry with Nyquist and Vanek. The D is kind of out of his control until Holland upgraded it. But I would roll with 3 lefties 3 righties. Sproul is better than XO, he should stay in every game. Goalie he should give Mrazek about 10-12 games in a row. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 Sooo... we all scared to admit Jeff Blashill has been doing a terrible job? Fire all assistants. Check. I think he gets fired after we miss the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 I think he should be fired regardless of if they make it or not. He's making the same mistakes he made last year. Larkin, despite his struggles, needs to be at center. That's his future. He's not going to get better at center by playing wing. Helm has predictably cooled off, only 2 assists in his last 6 games, but he still gets a bunch of minutes while the more productive AA plays 9 or 10 a game, because Blashill thinks he needs to be Darren Helm Jr. Zetterberg needs to be playing less so he doesn't have his legs fall off the last month of the season, but he's not. He continues to overuse his over matched 4th line, it's like he doesn't see the problem with the other team having the puck most of the time they're on the ice. What made the Grind Line so effective was that they could get the puck, get it up ice, and put pressure on the other team, not sit back and try to block shot after shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 If a guy like Laviolette becomes available I think Holland pulls the trigger. I think the organization knows he's not doing a good job. Their just giving him the time he needs to mature and theirs no significantly better option. At this point he's a detriment to our young players progress and that can't happen. This roster is obviously going to have struggles but coaching is nowhere near the level it needs to be for these young players taking steps forward. These are just wasted years for the whole organization Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 What exactly is Blashill failing at when it comes to coaching? In my opinion systems and approach is fine, the only issue I have right now is player usage. He needs to stop relying on the same old / s***ty players, and start leaning on the youth. If he were somehow able to do that, I think he'd be fine. The most frustrating thing about all of this is that his player usage was one of the things I was most excited about prior to last season. In Grand Rapids, he seemed to rely heavily on the star players, while the s***ty players sat. Which is why I'm kind of starting to think that it may not be Blashill at all. Maybe it's coming from above him. I mean, Holland is the one that re-signed Miller and signed Ott isn't he? He obviously wants them playing. Does Blashill feel the same way? Maybe. Maybe not... I'm not convinced that Blashill is the issue, based on his track record. Babcock relied heavily on the same type players in Detroit, but doesn't at all in Toronto. In fact, Babs is relying heavily on the kids while the 4th liners like Holland, Martin and Smith are getting 10-12 minutes a night. I'm starting to believe this may be an organizational issue, not necessarily coaching. I don't think Blashill is going anywhere, nor do I think it would help much if he did... 1 Wheelchairsuperhero reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: What exactly is Blashill failing at when it comes to coaching? In my opinion systems and approach is fine, the only issue I have right now is player usage. He needs to stop relying on the same old / s***ty players, and start leaning on the youth. If he were somehow able to do that, I think he'd be fine. The most frustrating thing about all of this is that his player usage was one of the things I was most excited about prior to last season. In Grand Rapids, he seemed to rely heavily on the star players, while the s***ty players sat. Which is why I'm kind of starting to think that it may not be Blashill at all. Maybe it's coming from above him. I mean, Holland is the one that re-signed Miller and signed Ott isn't he? He obviously wants them playing. Does Blashill feel the same way? Maybe. Maybe not... I'm not convinced that Blashill is the issue, based on his track record. Babcock relied heavily on the same type players in Detroit, but doesn't at all in Toronto. In fact, Babs is relying heavily on the kids while the 4th liners like Holland, Martin and Smith are getting 10-12 minutes a night. I'm starting to believe this may be an organizational issue, not necessarily coaching. I don't think Blashill is going anywhere, nor do I think it would help much if he did... Than maybe we need a coach like Scotty that isn't afraid to stand up to management if you're gonna coach in the nhl you need ability to do what you think is right despite what management says Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 Problem is, there is no coach like Scotty... Babcock is regarded as one of the best coaches in hockey of this era, and according to the above theory... he was a bit of a yes man as well. I'm not saying it's right, but like it or not, Holland is running this ship, and I'm not sure any coach can come in and change that... I don't know though, maybe this is all way off base, but I find it kind of funny that Blashill changed his player usage when he became the coach of the Wings and Babcock changed his when he left the Wings... 2 LeftWinger and Dominator2005 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 19 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: What exactly is Blashill failing at when it comes to coaching? In my opinion systems and approach is fine, the only issue I have right now is player usage. He needs to stop relying on the same old / s***ty players, and start leaning on the youth. If he were somehow able to do that, I think he'd be fine. The most frustrating thing about all of this is that his player usage was one of the things I was most excited about prior to last season. In Grand Rapids, he seemed to rely heavily on the star players, while the s***ty players sat. Which is why I'm kind of starting to think that it may not be Blashill at all. Maybe it's coming from above him. I mean, Holland is the one that re-signed Miller and signed Ott isn't he? He obviously wants them playing. Does Blashill feel the same way? Maybe. Maybe not... I'm not convinced that Blashill is the issue, based on his track record. Babcock relied heavily on the same type players in Detroit, but doesn't at all in Toronto. In fact, Babs is relying heavily on the kids while the 4th liners like Holland, Martin and Smith are getting 10-12 minutes a night. I'm starting to believe this may be an organizational issue, not necessarily coaching. I don't think Blashill is going anywhere, nor do I think it would help much if he did... Miller, Ott, and Glendening have all been near the bottom of the team in ice time, both under Blashill and Babcock. Their ice time is not substantially different from many other 4th liners. People vastly overstate their usage, and the mis-usage of players in general. If AA was Austin Matthews he'd be playing 17 minutes a night. It's too early to say Blashill has been a failure, or that there's something wrong with the system, but I don't think you can say it's fine either. 29 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Problem is, there is no coach like Scotty... Babcock is regarded as one of the best coaches in hockey of this era, and according to the above theory... he was a bit of a yes man as well. I'm not saying it's right, but like it or not, Holland is running this ship, and I'm not sure any coach can come in and change that... I don't know though, maybe this is all way off base, but I find it kind of funny that Blashill changed his player usage when he became the coach of the Wings and Babcock changed his when he left the Wings... Except it's not really true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Problem is, there is no coach like Scotty... Babcock is regarded as one of the best coaches in hockey of this era, and according to the above theory... he was a bit of a yes man as well. I'm not saying it's right, but like it or not, Holland is running this ship, and I'm not sure any coach can come in and change that... I don't know though, maybe this is all way off base, but I find it kind of funny that Blashill changed his player usage when he became the coach of the Wings and Babcock changed his when he left the Wings... He sure was. People forget, Bowman was a Freak. If there was a stronger word he'd be that. He studied books, game sheets and all available hockey statistics for fun since an early age. He could quote game stats from the 1940's onward from the top of his head and discuss them in relation to game strategy for specific coaches if he had enough data over the years which he almost always had. If he didn't, he sure would find out. It'd mean he missed something or possibly eliminated a faulty perspective from an input someone gave. Once he commanded the respect he deserved by mastering the theory, the locker room and the psychology of individual great players he was destined for greatness. Which made rich men listen, among them someone named Ilitch in an era where no cap existed. Edited November 3, 2016 by Jacksoni Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 Like I said, all of this is just a theory, and I don't have the numbers in front of me (at work). If it's true that they're toward the bottom of the team in TOI, I'm very ùsurprised. Seems to be a lot higher. Regardless, they are being relied on too heavily, whether it's 7 minutes or 12 minutes a game in my opinion. I do think there's an issue with usage, in particular at the end of games. Again, no numbers to back this up, but it does seem like they're out there too often trying to defend leads, rather than putting players on the ice that can increase the lead... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Problem is, there is no coach like Scotty... Babcock is regarded as one of the best coaches in hockey of this era, and according to the above theory... he was a bit of a yes man as well. I'm not saying it's right, but like it or not, Holland is running this ship, and I'm not sure any coach can come in and change that... I don't know though, maybe this is all way off base, but I find it kind of funny that Blashill changed his player usage when he became the coach of the Wings and Babcock changed his when he left the Wings... Bingo! I've said for a long time that Holland orders his coaches to play certain players and in certain roles in compliance with salary and loyalty. How long exactly did Abby play 4th line? Disagree with me, but IMO Z should be 4th line center or out. Mantha should be top 6. So should AA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 3, 2016 Lines (healthy) should be: Mantha - Larkin - AA Nyquist - Helm - Vanek Tatar - Nielsen - Abby Sheahan - Z - Ott disney.com and Miller extra, Jurco waived. Kronwall - Sproul DD - Green Ericsson - Marchenko Smith, XO extra. Unfortunately there's not enough cap space to bring Mantha up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Like I said, all of this is just a theory, and I don't have the numbers in front of me (at work). If it's true that they're toward the bottom of the team in TOI, I'm very ùsurprised. Seems to be a lot higher. Regardless, they are being relied on too heavily, whether it's 7 minutes or 12 minutes a game in my opinion. I do think there's an issue with usage, in particular at the end of games. Again, no numbers to back this up, but it does seem like they're out there too often trying to defend leads, rather than putting players on the ice that can increase the lead... Miller and Ott are 12th and 13th respectively. Glendening is 9th in total, 10th at ES. Unfortunately, I don't know of a site that gives situational breakdowns of icetime. Hockeyviz does show that Miller and Glendening get more ice time when we have a lead. As do Holland, Martin, and Smith in TO. I'm not real familiar with the Pk/defensive forwards around the league, but looking at some other teams, I'd guess it's a fairly common practice. It could well be an "old-school" mentality that we'll see change as advanced metrics gain influence, but that's getting a little far from the original topic. And our 4th line has not been a problem. Despite the terrible possession, they've been effective. Should be much less of a concern than Larkin and Neilson getting scored on too often, or Tatar and Abdelkader not scoring. The idea that Holland is dictating usage is patently ridiculous. As is the notion that line combos or a minute or three of icetime here or there is going to make any real difference. And this tendency to form opinions based on what we want to be true, or what our fantasies say is true, then jumping through whatever logical hoops are necessary to maintain those fantasies. Our team just isn't all that good, and it's because we're lacking star power at the top. That's really our only problem. I guess that doesn't leave much to talk about, but that doesn't mean we need to resort to wild theories to explain why Blashill isn't the superhero you'd hoped he'd be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 Quote - Following Wednesday’s game, coach Jeff Blashill said he needs better consistency from Andreas Athanasiou. “His first half was really good. I didn’t like the second part of the second period. He’s got to make sure he plays complete for the whole time. He’s got to make sure he’s on it. He wasn't winning as many battles, he wasn't as engaged, skatingwise, and he wasn't on the puck." http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/11/03/detroit-red-wings-injuries/93244294/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter We'll, I guess we know who's going to GR when Jurco comes back...wtf is Blashill's problem with AA? He's been one of his better guys. If AA gets this criticism, wtf does Z or Abby or disney.com or Tatar get? Wtf man!? I'm beginning to hate Jeff Blashill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: We'll, I guess we know who's going to GR when Jurco comes back...wtf is Blashill's problem with AA? He's been one of his better guys. If AA gets this criticism, wtf does Z or Abby or disney.com or Tatar get? Wtf man!? I'm beginning to hate Jeff Blashill. Please don't put Zetterberg in the same sentence with Abby or Tatar. One of them has been the work horse on the team and MVP on multiple occasions and holds individual franchise records for nearly a decade while the other two aren't at his level or ever will be. They're not going to criticize a guy who is in decline post-back surgery after playing like an elite forward and bringing it every night and carrying the team on his back for like 12 years. The only people who turn on a guyt like that are people on LGW.com. Because people here are unappreciative close-minded fans. Edited November 4, 2016 by kickazz 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDCard 48 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 Who is disney.com...Glenny? Why is the nickname disney.com? Just wonderin' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,949 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 36 minutes ago, kickazz said: Please don't put Zetterberg in the same sentence with Abby or Tatar. One of them has been the work horse on the team and MVP on multiple occasions and holds individual franchise records for nearly a decade while the other two aren't at his level or ever will be. They're not going to criticize a guy who is in decline post-back surgery after playing like an elite forward and bringing it every night and carrying the team on his back for like 12 years. The only people who turn on a guyt like that are people on LGW.com. Because people here are unappreciative close-minded fans. Not saying what's he's brought, I'm comparing today, this year. Not saying Z is crap, but if he thinks AA is not consistent enough, then what does he call the others? Are we giving vets a pass because of what they've done? But AA gets judged by a 2nd half of a period? This encompasses exactly what's wrong with Blashill and this organIzation. God Bless Z for what he's done, but no way has AA done anything to deserve how bad Blashill is talking about him. He has outplayed and out worked most of the team every game he's played. I'd give an advantage to Larkin, Helm, Nyquist, Vanek and Nielsen who have done a bit better, but that's it. AA is right there with them and does not deserve this criticism. Again, not saying the rest have sucked, just saying they have been more inconsistent than AA yet none get called out...this is the now, appreciate the past, but the past does nothing for the now. We all know Z is a shadow of himself and it's not fair to say AA is not playing good enough, but the likes of Z and co. are. Blashill is losing it and he's losing the fan base. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Buppy said: Miller and Ott are 12th and 13th respectively. Glendening is 9th in total, 10th at ES. Unfortunately, I don't know of a site that gives situational breakdowns of icetime. Hockeyviz does show that Miller and Glendening get more ice time when we have a lead. As do Holland, Martin, and Smith in TO. I'm not real familiar with the Pk/defensive forwards around the league, but looking at some other teams, I'd guess it's a fairly common practice. It could well be an "old-school" mentality that we'll see change as advanced metrics gain influence, but that's getting a little far from the original topic. And our 4th line has not been a problem. Despite the terrible possession, they've been effective. Should be much less of a concern than Larkin and Neilson getting scored on too often, or Tatar and Abdelkader not scoring. The idea that Holland is dictating usage is patently ridiculous. As is the notion that line combos or a minute or three of icetime here or there is going to make any real difference. And this tendency to form opinions based on what we want to be true, or what our fantasies say is true, then jumping through whatever logical hoops are necessary to maintain those fantasies. Our team just isn't all that good, and it's because we're lacking star power at the top. That's really our only problem. I guess that doesn't leave much to talk about, but that doesn't mean we need to resort to wild theories to explain why Blashill isn't the superhero you'd hoped he'd be. A line that isn't capable of possessing the puck for any significant amount of time is not effective. Players that are constantly defending because they can't gain possession of the puck are not effective players. "A minute or three" of ice time absolutely does make a difference, and to say otherwise is ridiculous. You take a single shift away from a player, and the entire outcome there after is entirely different (for better or worse). Yup, I often "fantasize" about the OMG line being awful. That's why I think they're so bad, because I want them to be bad...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 Quote - Following Wednesday’s game, coach Jeff Blashill said he needs better consistency from Andreas Athanasiou. “His first half was really good. I didn’t like the second part of the second period. He’s got to make sure he plays complete for the whole time. He’s got to make sure he’s on it. He wasn't winning as many battles, he wasn't as engaged, skatingwise, and he wasn't on the puck."http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/11/03/detroit-red-wings-injuries/93244294/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter We'll, I guess we know who's going to GR when Jurco comes back...wtf is Blashill's problem with AA? He's been one of his better guys. If AA gets this criticism, wtf does Z or Abby or disney.com or Tatar get? Wtf man!? I'm beginning to hate Jeff Blashill. He wants AA to play just like Helm and when he doesn't he gets criticized. Everyone else gets a pass for some weird reason. Very Babcockian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) Blashill always tries to cover his bases too much. He just has to come up with excuses for AA or some sort of criticism. But the guy he's making the most of his lesser icetime. Lets not overrate AA though. He's doing well but not amazing, better than some of our others definitely . At the same time, criticizing AA is unwarranted imo. Like where the hell is Tomas Tatar? Can someone tell the guy that the season has started? Edited November 4, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crashnburnluder 385 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 I think when it comes down to it, there are a lot of scape goats, but the roblrm is Holland. We spend to the cap and don't have a 1c, a 1w, a 1 or 2 d, and a 5 million dollar back up, we have a 4 million dollar 3rd liner with no hands(helm) and a poor mans lucic, backes (abdelkader) our roster is built like hell. Is it not a surprise our best player has actual size and the minute he goes down we tank hard, yet keep a 6-5 mantha who can score in the AHL... ? Management is the issue... He has his behind good drafting for years 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 4, 2016 "I would’ve liked to use [Athanasiou] in that situation, but I didn’t like his second half of the game at all. And I told him that, so I have no problem saying that." -- Jeff Blashill, re: why he didn't use Athanasiou in the OT on Wednesday night. (Said this morning on 97.1. Credit to a WIIM poster for pointing this out.) It's at this point that I say, "Get bent." Now, that being said... 8 hours ago, Crashnburnluder said: I think when it comes down to it, there are a lot of scape goats, but the roblrm is Holland. I agree. At the end of the day, the problem at the root of all of our problems is Ken Holland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
