Jeff Blashill

[kickazz 5,459]

22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Like I said, my understanding is that his knee situation is not good. As in, it's a problem that warrants corrective surgery but Kronwall's said no to the surgery and now he's probably doing long-term damage, possibly of the handicapping variety. If the problem becomes a big enough hindrance to his ability to play (and I'm assuming it soon will), the Wings' physician will have to declare Kronwall unfit to play for a minimum of 24 days and 10 games. That gets him on LTIR. If I understand correctly, stretching that indefinitely (LTIRetirement) requires the physician to monitor Kronwall and refuse to declare him fit to play. If the league doesn't like it, they can issue a formal challenge and Kronwall would be checked out by a neutral physician. As I'm operating under the assumption that Kronwall has a genuinely debilitating physical ailment that really should've been addressed through surgery a year or two ago, I assume the neutral physician would say, "Yeah, dude's unfit to play."

That's my take on it. But, admittedly, I'm no CBA expert, and I don't know exactly what Kronwall's knee situation really is. So I suppose I'm sort of talking out of my ass here.

The thing is, I have a lot of doubt that it would cause him to be handicapped in the future. If it did, he wouldn't be playing 55-56 games this year (that's A LOT). And if there was such a risk, things such as knee-replacement surgeries would likely be a conclusive treatment in his future; I.E he's not going to be a wheelchair bound man. For one: he's already told us (albiet vaguely) what his issue is.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

1. Pain

2. Wear and tear.

Pain and wear/tear doesn't make you handicap. It just makes you... hurt a lot. 

You can replace your knee completely in today's day and age and walk around freely and live a normal life, but you still can't your brain or spinal cord (Franzen, Pronger and everyone else on LTIR). 

I know my points have elements of speculation as well. But the main point I'm trying to make is that if you look at everyone on LTIRetrement, most, if not all of them are people who have post-concussion syndrome, blood clot, neck or back surgery, or spinal/vertebral issues. 

There is no one on LTIR that has elbow/knee, finger, toes, hands, feet chronic orthopedic issues. At least going through that list. 

So that's why I am very confident that Kronwall will either finish the contract (and limit the games he plays) or he will actually retire causing us to get a cap penalty. And that is something we don't want. 

I can see them attempt the LTIR. But I can also see them losing the case for it. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, kickazz said:

I've said this before but I don't think a lot of people understand what LTIRetirement is. And because we have seen it with Franzen, we may be overestimating how it actually works.

It doesn't look as though there is a single player on LTIR'd for "knee issues". I am certain you have to be on the verge of handicap or terrible future outlook (Franzen, Pronger, Dupuis etc) in health to be LTIR'd. Can't just go on LTIR because you have chronic knee pain. 

Here's a list of all the NHL injured players. Almost everyone that has been LTIR'd has either a brain issue (severe concussion), spinal cord issue, blood clots, vertebral issue, or severe neck or back surgery. These are all life-threatening conditions. 

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/injuries/nhl/all/

Stephane Robidas

[kickazz 5,459]

9 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Stephane Robidas

He broke his right leg, then fractured it again in his next game back. Fractures are not the same as "wear and tear" and "pain" in my knee. I don't think anyone would want to keep breaking/fracturing their own leg unless they're into masochism or something and I don't think any doctor in their right mind would approve a guy to go keep breaking his leg over and over. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

32 minutes ago, kickazz said:

The thing is, I have a lot of doubt that it would cause him to be handicapped in the future. If it did, he wouldn't be playing 55-56 games this year (that's A LOT). And if there was such a risk, things such as knee-replacement surgeries would likely be a conclusive treatment in his future; I.E he's not going to be a wheelchair bound man. For one: he's already told us (albiet vaguely) what his issue is.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

1. Pain

2. Wear and tear.

Pain and wear/tear doesn't make you handicap. It just makes you... hurt a lot. 

You can replace your knee completely in today's day and age and walk around freely and live a normal life, but you still can't your brain or spinal cord (Franzen, Pronger and everyone else on LTIR). 

I know my points have elements of speculation as well. But the main point I'm trying to make is that if you look at everyone on LTIRetrement, most, if not all of them are people who have post-concussion syndrome, blood clot, neck or back surgery, or spinal/vertebral issues. 

There is no one on LTIR that has elbow/knee, finger, toes, hands, feet chronic orthopedic issues. At least going through that list. 

So that's why I am very confident that Kronwall will either finish the contract (and limit the games he plays) or he will actually retire causing us to get a cap penalty. And that is something we don't want. 

I can see them attempt the LTIR. But I can also see them losing the case for it. 

Mattias Ohlund was on LTIRetirement for a knee injury from 2011-2016. Here's a summary from Wikipedia:

"Prior to the start of the 2011–12 season, Öhlund began experiencing inflammation in his right knee. The Lightning placed him on injured reserve on October 4, 2011; a week later, he underwent arthroscopic surgery on both knees.^[43] After there was optimism he was close to returning to the lineup in December, he suffered a setback with his left knee and underwent further surgery in February 2012.^{[notes 1][44][45]} During his recovery, he told reporters with Swedish newspaper Expressen that he was unsure whether he could continue playing.^[46]His contract with the Lightning expired July 1, 2016. He was until that date listed on the team roster but was on injured reserve since 2011."

I think there's 0% chance Kronwall would straight up retire. He'd be aware of the cap penalty and wouldn't knowingly hurt the team like that.

[kickazz 5,459]

Good point about Ohlund but if I'm not mistaken he actually had a partial knee replacement. Usually those surgeries mean no more hockey. 

That's probably why Kronwall doesn't want surgery. My assumption is that the doctors told him the choice of surgery is a knee replacement which means no more hockey and that's why Kronwall didn't want to have the surgery done. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

He broke his right leg, then fractured it again. Fractures are not the same as "wear and tear" and "pain" in my knee. I don't think anyone would want to keep breaking/fracturing their own leg unless they're into masochism or something. 

You're reaching. A broken leg is no more life-threatening or potentially-permanently-debilitating than a knee injury, and, unless he had some undisclosed bone disease, less likely to recur. Joffery Lupul retired due to sports hernia. Dave Bolland mostly due to an ankle injury (albeit, complicated by a back issue).

While that kind of injury is certainly less likely to cause a player to retire, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest it is any more difficult to get LTIR for them. 

I think Kronwall will try to play next season, and how that goes will determine whether he tries to finish the contract. But if at any time he decides his body can't it, I really doubt any doctor would disagree with him. 

[kickazz 5,459]

19 minutes ago, Buppy said:

You're reaching. A broken leg is no more life-threatening or potentially-permanently-debilitating than a knee injury, and, unless he had some undisclosed bone disease, less likely to recur. Joffery Lupul retired due to sports hernia. Dave Bolland mostly due to an ankle injury (albeit, complicated by a back issue).

It can be more life-threatning depending on where/how it's broken. But that's another discussion.

You are underestimating what a broken leg can do for a hockey player vs. a knee issue that can be fixed with surgery. 

You can't play with a broken leg or a sports hernia. And in Kronwall's case (whatever it is - mentioned wear and tear) he's obviously able to play through it. He's already said his main issue is playing through the pain.

Certainly Kronwall has some sort of a case for LTIR. But it's a huge grey area for him whereas with the others on that list, not so much. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I'm torn.  On one hand I hate seeing Blashill take a team and get the least possible results of the talent.  On the other hand, having a shot at the #1 overall is a good thing, and just squeaking into the playoffs when you have a veteran laden team and no real chance at winning is counterproductive to a rebuild.

[kickazz 5,459]

23 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I think there's 0% chance Kronwall would straight up retire. He'd be aware of the cap penalty and wouldn't knowingly hurt the team like that.

He won't. The Swedes are too loyal. He'll probably take it day by day like he did this season and screw his knee until he literally can't skate anymore. Get the surgery done and get hired as a scout. I'm not being sarcastic either, I think he'll try to ride it out as long as he can. And judging by how he played 55 games so far I'm assuming with the nice rest he's about to get this summer he should theoretically be back for next season. 

He'll be here next season. So the convo in Holland's office this summer won't be much. (which I think is what struck up this discussion). 

But crazier things have happened, maybe they'll try the LTIR this summer, it would be super shady though IMO. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

20 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Good point about Ohlund but if I'm not mistaken he actually had a partial knee replacement. Usually those surgeries mean no more hockey. 

That's probably why Kronwall doesn't one surgery. My assumption is that the doctor's told him the choice of surgery is a knee replacement which means no more hockey and that's why Kronwall didn't want to have the surgery done. 

I think you're right, kick, about the surgery. And maybe that's what Holland meant by "he's earned the right to make his own choice." The choice could be try to fight through the pain for 2 more years and finish the contract or he gets surgery which means his career's possibly over and he might end up riding it out LTIR. Or, even if it doesn't cancel out the full 2 years, recovery from a knee surgery can be a big thing and maybe not worth it just to get back for 1-1.5 years. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I think you're right, kick, about the surgery. And maybe that's what Holland meant by "he's earned the right to make his own choice." The choice could be try to fight through the pain for 2 more years and finish the contract or he gets surgery which means his career's possibly over and he might end up riding it out LTIR. Or, even if it doesn't take out the full 2 years, recovery from a knee surgery can be a big thing and maybe not worth it just to get back for 1-1.5 years. 

You nailed it. If he does surgery that's perfect way to get on the LTIR eventually. Happened to Ohlund. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Just further evidence for that, here's an article from the summer. Apparently Kronwall did already have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee - like Ohlund did on both of his. Then on further surgery Kronwall says: "I think the surgery that was talked about was something that wouldn't be the best idea if I wanted to play again."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

So surgery would probably be the end and the question is just how long he can - or wants to - put up with the pain so he can keep playing.

[kickazz 5,459]

6 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Just further evidence for that, here's an article from the summer. Apparently Kronwall did already have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee - like Ohlund did on both of his. Then on further surgery Kronwall says: "I think the surgery that was talked about was something that wouldn't be the best idea if I wanted to play again."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

So surgery would probably be the end and the question is just how long he can - or wants to - put up with the pain so he can keep playing.

Right.

Also it seems like Holland is giving Kronwall the choice? Like "if you want to stay on the books and play as much as you can then go ahead"

So it really is upto Kronwall?

If so i can see him play on and off next year too

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Yeah, the wording from Holland seems a little weird, cause it's not a team could force him to get - or not to get - surgery. 

I think it's probably more a nice way of saying we'll see if he wants to keep fighting the pain and whatever he decides is fine and we'll deal with it.

[Buppy 1,720]

36 minutes ago, kickazz said:

It can be more life-threatning depending on where/how it's broken. But that's another discussion.

You are underestimating what a broken leg can do for a hockey player vs. a knee issue that can be fixed with surgery. 

You can't play with a broken leg or a sports hernia. And in Kronwall's case (whatever it is - mentioned wear and tear) he's obviously able to play through it. He's already said his main issue is playing through the pain.

Certainly Kronwall has some sort of a case for LTIR. But it's a huge grey area for him whereas with the others on that list, not so much. 

Again, you're really reaching.

Broken legs do heal. Whatever Oregon Trail worst case scenario you want to imagine is irrelevant. Fact is Robidas was healthy enough to play in 52 games afterward, plus 3 pre-season games the following year, prior to deciding he wasn't up to playing anymore.

Do you really think that if Kronwall says the pain is too much for him to take, and a doctor confirms that he does have a chronic issue (which likely requires surgery to correct), plus the undeniable fact that playing further poses the risk of additional injury, the NHL (already facing a lawsuit for concussions) would say, "Walk it off, ya *****. Either completely ruin your leg like a real man or you ain't getting paid", all in the name of screwing the Wings out of a little cap relief after having not said a word about any of the other LTIR cases, several of which are similar in severity to Kronwall?

If the league has a problem with LTIR (and there isn't any reason they should, since it isn't, and isn't likely to become, something that's abused) I'm sure they'll wait until the next CBA to address it rather than try to argue how-injured-is-injured-enough.

You're acting like it's just a matter of wanting to get rid of a player who sucks. (And maybe that's all LW is thinking.) But the truth is he does have a legitimate chronic injury, and it certainly seems as though it is having a significant impact on his ability to play. So again, if he says he can't play I can't imagine a doctor would argue, nor that the league would argue with a doctor.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

I'm not even in on this debate.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

What happened to Blashill ? 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

5 hours ago, F.Michael said:

LTIR

He was diagnosed with a chronic case of Headuphisass

[kickazz 5,459]

12 hours ago, Buppy said:

Again, you're really reaching.

Broken legs do heal. Whatever Oregon Trail worst case scenario you want to imagine is irrelevant. Fact is Robidas was healthy enough to play in 52 games afterward, plus 3 pre-season games the following year, prior to deciding he wasn't up to playing anymore.

Do you really think that if Kronwall says the pain is too much for him to take, and a doctor confirms that he does have a chronic issue (which likely requires surgery to correct), plus the undeniable fact that playing further poses the risk of additional injury, the NHL (already facing a lawsuit for concussions) would say, "Walk it off, ya *****. Either completely ruin your leg like a real man or you ain't getting paid", all in the name of screwing the Wings out of a little cap relief after having not said a word about any of the other LTIR cases, several of which are similar in severity to Kronwall?

If the league has a problem with LTIR (and there isn't any reason they should, since it isn't, and isn't likely to become, something that's abused) I'm sure they'll wait until the next CBA to address it rather than try to argue how-injured-is-injured-enough.

You're acting like it's just a matter of wanting to get rid of a player who sucks. (And maybe that's all LW is thinking.) But the truth is he does have a legitimate chronic injury, and it certainly seems as though it is having a significant impact on his ability to play. So again, if he says he can't play I can't imagine a doctor would argue, nor that the league would argue with a doctor.

So wait, you actually believe that because he was able to play 52 games after breaking/fracturing his leg twice, his leg was no longer an issue? And he was just "not up to playing anymore"? Now you're really reaching here. Since we're speculating, I say he quit playing because of the same leg being prone to injury/issues, maybe even avoiding another fracture.

"Maple Leafs defenceman Stephane Robidas may also be facing a harsh reality. The 38 year old has been hampered by soreness in his leg and groin, the same leg he's broken twice during his career. Always the gamer, Robidas intends on continuing to try and get healthy over the next few weeks. However, if the leg doesn't respond, he plans on re-evaluating his future."

Once again, broken leg =/= wear and tear on the knee. With a broken leg you can't play hockey. Period. The leg is prone to further issues, possibly even another fracture.

In Kronwall's case he can play hockey. It's weather or not he wants to. I don't think Robidas had much of a choice is that same leg was acting up again. Who the hell wants to sit another 2 months with another possible fractured leg. At least in Kronwall's case he can rest his knee, take some steroid shots and strengthen his muscles to have better support on the joint (which is probably where the pain is). And from what we're been told that's exactly what he did. 

"It was determined after the season that surgery wouldn't solve the problem, which is years of wear and tear. He needs to strengthen the muscles, and for that he needs aggressive training as well as ample rest."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

12 hours ago, Buppy said:

Do you really think that if Kronwall says the pain is too much for him to take, and a doctor confirms that he does have a chronic issue (which likely requires surgery to correct), plus the undeniable fact that playing further poses the risk of additional injury, the NHL (already facing a lawsuit for concussions) would say, "Walk it off, ya *****. Either completely ruin your leg like a real man or you ain't getting paid", all in the name of screwing the Wings out of a little cap relief after having not said a word about any of the other LTIR cases, several of which are similar in severity to Kronwall?

 

Lol, it's funny you point out Oregon Trail Worst case scenario but then do the same in your own post. The NHL could have certain players retire instead of use the LTIR loop hole. I mean if you can't play or work by choice you shouldn't be getting paid as if you are right? 

Right??? If not then I'm in the wrong line of work!!! 

Fact of the matter is guys like Franzen and Pronger can't play even if they wanted to. Lupul can't play with an abdominal sports hernia. Kronwall has a choice. His knee doesn't prevent him from playing, it's the pain that does (he obviously skated on it for 55 games). And as much as you want to pretend Robidas' situation is similar to Kronwall's (it's not), we don't actually know why he retired other than the fact that his same previously broken leg was causing issues again in addition to his groin. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

17 minutes ago, kickazz said:

So wait, you actually believe that because he was able to play 52 games after breaking/fracturing his leg twice, his leg was no longer an issue? And he was just "not up to playing anymore"? Now you're really reaching here. Since we're speculating, I say he quit playing because of the same leg being prone to injury/issues, maybe even avoiding another fracture.

"Maple Leafs defenceman Stephane Robidas may also be facing a harsh reality. The 38 year old has been hampered by soreness in his leg and groin, the same leg he's broken twice during his career. Always the gamer, Robidas intends on continuing to try and get healthy over the next few weeks. However, if the leg doesn't respond, he plans on re-evaluating his future."

Once again, broken leg =/= wear and tear on the knee. With a broken leg you can't play hockey. Period. The leg is prone to further issues, possibly even another fracture.

In Kronwall's case he can play hockey. It's weather or not he wants to. I don't think Robidas had much of a choice is that same leg was acting up again. Who the hell wants to sit another 2 months with another possible fractured leg. At least in Kronwall's case he can rest his knee, take some steroid shots and strengthen his muscles to have better support on the joint (which is probably where the pain is). And from what we're been told that's exactly what he did. 

"It was determined after the season that surgery wouldn't solve the problem, which is years of wear and tear. He needs to strengthen the muscles, and for that he needs aggressive training as well as ample rest."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_niklas_kronwall_impr.html

Lol, it's funny you point out Oregon Trail Worst case scenario but then do the same in your own post. The NHL could have certain players retire instead of use the LTIR loop hole. I mean if you can't play or work by choice you shouldn't be getting paid as if you are right? 

Right??? If not then I'm in the wrong line of work!!! 

Fact of the matter is guys like Franzen and Pronger can't play even if they wanted to. Lupul can't play with an abdominal sports hernia. Kronwall has a choice. His knee doesn't prevent him from playing, it's the pain that does (he obviously skated on it for 55 games). And as much as you want to pretend Robidas' situation is similar to Kronwall's (it's not), we don't actually know why he retired other than the fact that his same previously broken leg was causing issues again in addition to his groin. 

Not saying it wasn't an issue. I'm saying it isn't any more of an issue than Kronwall's knee. Robidas wasn't playing with a broken leg. He had previously had a broken leg which had subsequently healed. Healed well enough to allow him to play 52 games the following year. He was indisputably capable of some level of play. How is Robidas being "hampered by soreness" worse than Kronwall being hampered by soreness. 

Here's a quote from November 2015: 

"Even with the time off, I'm not too optimistic," GM Lou Lamoriello said Monday. "He's not skating yet." Robidas appeared to be OK at training camp, but he started the season on injured reserve due to some "wear and tear" and there haven't been many updates on his status ever since.

Who decides who can and can't play? Franzen isn't dead. He isn't paralyzed. He has legs, he can see, move, think, hold a stick...as far as I know there's no force field preventing him from stepping on the ice. Literally speaking he is in fact capable of playing. The reason he isn't is because the discomfort and risk of further injury is too great. It seems you're trying to draw a line for "injured enough", and concluding that Kronwall is below while Robidas (and everyone else) is above it even though you admit you don't actually know why he retired.

Call LTIR a loophole all you want, but Kronwall does have a bona-fide injury. Maybe the NHL could fight LTIR if they wanted, but that'd be a pretty dangerous game with no benefit to the league. LTIR isn't just used for players that are retired, much less only players who are retired and whose contracts would carry some kind of penalty if that player were to officially retire. Is the NHL going to start scrutinizing every long term injury to make sure that all players are in enough pain to really prevent them from playing?

Kronwall does have a bad knee. That is a fact. Also a fact that every time he steps on the ice he is risking further injury and suffering further "wear and tear". Also seems accepted as fact that he is suffering some degree of pain due to the injury. Also a fact that he has missed several games this year, presumably because of the injury. Also a fact that several players with injuries similar in scope (as far as we know) have already been granted LTIR.

Do you really think a doctor would tell Kronwall to "toughen up", and that his pain level (which you have no idea of) isn't high enough? That the risk of further injury and further erosion isn't something he should worry about? Or that the NHL would risk a potential major lawsuit for literally no benefit to themselves other than the thrill of sticking the Wings with a recapture penalty? 

None of us know the criteria for passing/failing a physical. For all we know, Kronwall could be in a gray area where the team has the option of whether or not they are willing to accept the liability of him playing, and that's what Holland meant when he said Kronwall can make his own choice.

But regardless, the argument that the league would try to fight LTIR for Kronwall is absurd. 

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Not saying it wasn't an issue. I'm saying it isn't any more of an issue than Kronwall's knee. Robidas wasn't playing with a broken leg. He had previously had a broken leg which had subsequently healed. Healed well enough to allow him to play 52 games the following year. He was indisputably capable of some level of play. How is Robidas being "hampered by soreness" worse than Kronwall being hampered by soreness. 

Here's a quote from November 2015: 

"Even with the time off, I'm not too optimistic," GM Lou Lamoriello said Monday. "He's not skating yet." Robidas appeared to be OK at training camp, but he started the season on injured reserve due to some "wear and tear" and there haven't been many updates on his status ever since.

Who decides who can and can't play? Franzen isn't dead. He isn't paralyzed. He has legs, he can see, move, think, hold a stick...as far as I know there's no force field preventing him from stepping on the ice. Literally speaking he is in fact capable of playing. The reason he isn't is because the discomfort and risk of further injury is too great. It seems you're trying to draw a line for "injured enough", and concluding that Kronwall is below while Robidas (and everyone else) is above it even though you admit you don't actually know why he retired.

 

Boy there's more speculation in your post than all of mine combined. Use of semantics here to outwit an argument lol. You know exactly what I mean when I'm talking about Franzen/Pronger. Franzen can't play hockey in the NHL at the NHL level. Not anymore. Neither can Pronger. I would read up on Traumatic Brain Injuries; assuming Franzen has a moderate-severe type he likely gets dizzy after a few minutes of extreme on ice work. I'm not sure what your perception of dizziness is but being dizzy while skating would render the player impossible to play. In a way the dizziness IS a force field. 

https://redwingsfront.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/franzen-i-still-get-dizzy-and-headaches-its-motion-triggered/

Franzen: “I still get dizzy and headaches. It’s motion triggered.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/15/detroit-red-wings-johan-franzen-head-injury/25853131/

 "For two months, not being able to pick up your kids, or play with your kids, for more than 2 minutes — it makes you think a little bit. I was in a really dark place"

By the way for future reference, I would err to the side of caution to assume that just because some people with TBI's are not physically  paralyzed (i.e hands and feet and body can move by your definition and misperception), doesn't mean they are actually capable of living normal lives and perform normal activity. That's a very ignorant way of looking at things. One could argue that TBI can cause a form of neuropsychiatric paralysis in people's thought content and process. (i.e many have committed suicide and suffer from disinhibition from rational thinking). The other point is, even with his hands and feet working perfectly fine, he wasn't able to pick his kids up for more than 2 minutes, in a way THAT IS paralysis. 

Also I'm surprised it took you this long to figure out but I am drawing a line between the severity of an injury between different players. There's the Prongers/Franzen's and there's the Kronwalls. 

He's not going to LTIR after 55 games of playing and telling the media his knee has been better. The only way he LTIR's is if the knee actually got worse to the point where he literally can't skate anymore or he has to undergo surgery (it's most likely a knee-replacement) which would prevent him to play again. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

13 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Boy there's more speculation in your post than all of mine combined. Use of semantics here to outwit an argument lol. You know exactly what I mean when I'm talking about Franzen/Pronger. Franzen can't play hockey in the NHL at the NHL level. Not anymore. Neither can Pronger. I would read up on Traumatic Brain Injuries; assuming Franzen has a moderate-severe type he likely gets dizzy after a few minutes of extreme on ice work. I'm not sure what your perception of dizziness is but being dizzy while skating would render the player impossible to play. In a way the dizziness IS a force field. 

https://redwingsfront.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/franzen-i-still-get-dizzy-and-headaches-its-motion-triggered/

Franzen: “I still get dizzy and headaches. It’s motion triggered.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/15/detroit-red-wings-johan-franzen-head-injury/25853131/

 "For two months, not being able to pick up your kids, or play with your kids, for more than 2 minutes — it makes you think a little bit. I was in a really dark place"

By the way for future reference, I would err to the side of caution to assume that just because some people with TBI's are not physically  paralyzed (i.e hands and feet and body can move by your definition and misperception), doesn't mean they are actually capable of living normal lives and perform normal activity. That's a very ignorant way of looking at things. One could argue that TBI can cause a form of neuropsychiatric paralysis in people's thought content and process. (i.e many have committed suicide and suffer from disinhibition from rational thinking). The other point is, even with his hands and feet working perfectly fine, he wasn't able to pick his kids up for more than 2 minutes, in a way THAT IS paralysis. 

Also I'm surprised it took you this long to figure out but I am drawing a line between the severity of an injury between different players. There's the Prongers/Franzen's and there's the Kronwalls. 

He's not going to LTIR after 55 games of playing and telling the media his knee has been better. The only way he LTIR's is if the knee actually got worse to the point where he literally can't skate anymore or he has to undergo surgery (it's most likely a knee-replacement) which would prevent him to play again. 

Don't try to twist s*** around. I'm not saying Franzen or anyone else can play, in practical terms. I was pointing out that "can't" is a subjective term. Or maybe more accurate to say "play" is a subjective term. How much pain is enough to reach "can't play" territory? How much risk of further damage? Why would you think that you or the league are the ones to answer that question over Kronwall and his doctor?

And you're not just drawing a line between Kronwall and Franzen/Pronger. You're drawing a line between Kronwall and literally every single other player for which LTIR has been claimed, even in cases where you admittedly don't know the details. You started with a premise that Kronwall is somehow ineligible for LTIR, and you're just going to stick with it even in the face of several examples of players in a similar situation. 

But forget all that. Let's just focus on the facts. Kronwall does have a bona-fide injury. If he were to decide it's too much to play through, why do you think the league would suddenly pick him to say, "nope, your suffering isn't enough"?

[YouFoo 41]

https://www.nhl.com/news/lindy-ruff-out-as-dallas-stars-coach/c-288607106

 

What you guys think about going after him to replace Blash?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I'd take just about anyone of Trashill

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[LeftWinger 4,934]

At the very least, blashill will be back next season. If Holland gets a promotion after next season, odds are the incoming GM will choose his own coach. So it would be useless to fire blashill, hire a new staff only to fire them after one season and search for a new staff all over again. Blashill will be with us at least one more season. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by LeftWinger