Helm's other suitors

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Serious question.  What other teams wanted him, what was the source of the rumors, and were the offers actually on par with what he got or was it something like he had one offer for about $3.8 a year but it was only three years, and he had a 5 dear offer for around $3 mil, etc?  The only thing I heard was "other teams wanted him."  That tells me nothing.  For all we know, nobody else came close to what he got in Detroit, or he had 3 better offers but loves the Wings so much he really did take a discount, or his agent is the one who leaked the supposed offers, the media ran with it, and Holland panicked.

[kliq 3,755]

We had this convo in a previous thread where I posted all this info and you ignored it. Do we really need to re-visit this in a new thread?

Also, what are you looking to prove in this thread? I can already tell you how its going to go. Someone will post an article, tweet etc. from a reliable source (ie. a Bob McKenzie type) and then you will say you don't buy it. 

If you are looking for a team like the Canucks (a team that was rumored to have given him an offer) to come out publicly and say "we offered Darren Helm a contract" we all know that's not going to happen as GM's just normally don't do that.

Edited November 16, 2016 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

Here was a tweet from Darren Dregor on July 1st:

Darren Dreger on Twitter (Regarding Helm): "He took the discount. Dallas, Boston, Van, Calgary were all very interested. https://t.co/wp8hec2Ix2"

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by kliq

[DickieDunn 2,571]

People complain about cluttering threads with off topic stuff then complain about a new thread.

So one tweet from Dreger? Teams were interested or actually made offers? I might be interested in buying a car until I find out the asking price and how far the seller is willing to drop it, doesn't mean I'm buying it.

[kliq 3,755]

27 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

People complain about cluttering threads with off topic stuff then complain about a new thread.

So one tweet from Dreger? Teams were interested or actually made offers? I might be interested in buying a car until I find out the asking price and how far the seller is willing to drop it, doesn't mean I'm buying it.

How shocking, you dismiss the first bit of info provided. If only I could had seen that happening.

Please tell me Dickie, what is it you are looking for? Is there anything possibly out there that anyone can show you that wont lead to a cynical response?

I dont recall anyone getting upset with you for "cluttering threads". What people do get annoyed with is your obsession with Helm & Abby's contracts. We all get it, you don't like them.

Edited November 16, 2016 by kliq

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

4 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

People complain about cluttering threads with off topic stuff then complain about a new thread.

So one tweet from Dreger? Teams were interested or actually made offers? I might be interested in buying a car until I find out the asking price and how far the seller is willing to drop it, doesn't mean I'm buying it.

Is that seriously your comparison to an NHL player signing somewhere? 

[toby91_ca 620]

Regarding Dreger's tweet, I have to imagine the "he took the discount" really meant that he was looking for more on the open market, but settled for less.  That's the only way it makes sense as the contract looks like overpayment, definitely not a discount.

I think it is a fair question as to what other offers he had.....other teams being very interested doesn't mean any of them offered or were willing to pay close to $4M.  I suspect that was used simply to get more out of the Wings.

Not sure why we're being so hard on DD for asking the question, but I suspect I've missed a lot of drama earlier.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Regardless, the Helm contract is awful and will fit in with all the other terrible contracts signed in the last few years. Besides RFA's and Alfredsson and Vanek. Holland hasn't signed a good contract since the glory days

Problem is, does the Illitch family care enough about hockey to make a much needed change? If attendance tanks are they going to tighten the budget and become a bottom feeder team.

Edited November 16, 2016 by joesuffP

[chaps80 1,591]

Dallas wanted Helm? Imagine his speed on a line with someone like Benn or Seguin. Too bad there's no one like that for him to play with in Detroit.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, toby91_ca said:

Regarding Dreger's tweet, I have to imagine the "he took the discount" really meant that he was looking for more on the open market, but settled for less.  That's the only way it makes sense as the contract looks like overpayment, definitely not a discount.

I think it is a fair question as to what other offers he had.....other teams being very interested doesn't mean any of them offered or were willing to pay close to $4M.  I suspect that was used simply to get more out of the Wings.

Not sure why we're being so hard on DD for asking the question, but I suspect I've missed a lot of drama earlier.

Yes....this lol.

[kickazz 5,459]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ha ha ha ha.  You even called it in your first post.  Self fulfilling prophecy!

The laughter reminds me of an old member  

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

13 minutes ago, kickazz said:

The laughter reminds me of an old member  

well if the order fits the Bill....

[kliq 3,755]

The thing about the Helm contract, is people are making it sound like it is some outrageous contract, but when you really assess it for what he is which IMO is a very good third line center and good PK guy, I don't think it is a bad deal.

It was mentioned in an earlier thread, first line centers are typically paid now a days anywhere between 7-11 million per year (ie. Toews, Crosby, Malkin etc.). Second line centers are typically paid anywhere between 4-7 million per year (ie. Nielson, B.Sutter, Krejci, Brassard etc.) and third line centers are paid between 2-4 million. Helm being a very good third line center is being paid right around where he should be. Does it go great with the other contracts we have? Probably not, but that is not the debate here.

I get it, when you look at Helm's contract next to the contract's of E, Howard, Weiss (I realize he was bought out), Abby, Nieson, etc. it tends to be looked at in a different light as all of these contracts together are leading to cap issues.

But if you look at Helm's contract for what it is and on its own in a bubble, that being 3.85mil for a very good third line centre for 5 years, it is not close to as bad as what Red Wings fans who clearly have a bias towards long term deals think it is. I could easily see other teams who feel Helm could solidify their third line offering him an offer similar or slightly better. Imagine him on a team like Dallas or St. Louis etc. he could be a great addition.

[xault 272]

VAN wanted him pretty bad if I remember right

[kliq 3,755]

6 minutes ago, xault said:

VAN wanted him pretty bad if I remember right

Yep, they were one of the teams in the running for him.

[xault 272]

I'm pretty Helm was all but gone at one point or another honestly.

Edited November 17, 2016 by xault

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

On 11/16/2016 at 0:39 PM, chaps80 said:

Dallas wanted Helm? Imagine his speed on a line with someone like Benn or Seguin. Too bad there's no one like that for him to play with in Detroit.

If Detroit had guys like that Helm should not be allowed anywhere near their line.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 18/11/2016 at 1:08 AM, GoalieManPat said:

If Detroit had guys like that Helm should not be allowed anywhere near their line.

Why not? He can skate and pass, he just can't shoot. lol

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Why not? He can skate and pass, he just can't shoot. lol

Since when can he pass. The 17 assists he averages a year just scream play-maker. Helm can skate and check and thats about it and his skating is starting to decline. Putting Helm on a line with Benn and Seguin is like having steak and potatoes but with a side of corn pudding. You just dont mix that nasty thing with those other two great dishes.

[kliq 3,755]

16 hours ago, GoalieManPat said:

Since when can he pass. The 17 assists he averages a year just scream play-maker. Helm can skate and check and thats about it and his skating is starting to decline. Putting Helm on a line with Benn and Seguin is like having steak and potatoes but with a side of corn pudding. You just dont mix that nasty thing with those other two great dishes.

Funny thing is, isn't Eaves playing with them? Or was?

*edit* Holy s***! Eaves is 7th in the league in goals right now with 9. Wow! Good for him!

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by kliq

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I always liked eaves

Eaves is no Miller

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

17 hours ago, kliq said:

Funny thing is, isn't Eaves playing with them? Or was?

*edit* Holy s***! Eaves is 7th in the league in goals right now with 9. Wow! Good for him!

 

He plays with Seguin and Benn so it's pretty easy to score not to mention top PP time as well.

[kliq 3,755]

13 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

He plays with Seguin and Benn so it's pretty easy to score not to mention top PP time as well.

Of course those two are going to make his numbers look much better then if he was still here playing with Miller and Glendening, I dont think anyone things of him as a top 10 goal scorer, but he was put in a role and is playing extremely well in that role, you can't take that away from him. I always liked Eaves and its nice to see him succeeding. 

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

16 minutes ago, kliq said:

Of course those two are going to make his numbers look much better then if he was still here playing with Miller and Glendening, I dont think anyone things of him as a top 10 goal scorer, but he was put in a role and is playing extremely well in that role, you can't take that away from him. I always liked Eaves and its nice to see him succeeding. 

No doubt but I just look at him the same as Abby. He was playing with two elite players at one time inflating his stats.

[Shaman 713]

On 11/16/2016 at 3:22 PM, kliq said:

The thing about the Helm contract, is people are making it sound like it is some outrageous contract, but when you really assess it for what he is which IMO is a very good third line center and good PK guy, I don't think it is a bad deal.

It was mentioned in an earlier thread, first line centers are typically paid now a days anywhere between 7-11 million per year (ie. Toews, Crosby, Malkin etc.). Second line centers are typically paid anywhere between 4-7 million per year (ie. Nielson, B.Sutter, Krejci, Brassard etc.) and third line centers are paid between 2-4 million. Helm being a very good third line center is being paid right around where he should be. Does it go great with the other contracts we have? Probably not, but that is not the debate here.

I get it, when you look at Helm's contract next to the contract's of E, Howard, Weiss (I realize he was bought out), Abby, Nieson, etc. it tends to be looked at in a different light as all of these contracts together are leading to cap issues.

But if you look at Helm's contract for what it is and on its own in a bubble, that being 3.85mil for a very good third line centre for 5 years, it is not close to as bad as what Red Wings fans who clearly have a bias towards long term deals think it is. I could easily see other teams who feel Helm could solidify their third line offering him an offer similar or slightly better. Imagine him on a team like Dallas or St. Louis etc. he could be a great addition.

Helm's contract, taken right now, in isolation isn't terrible.

 

But, that's not how the world works. The contract is too long for a player of his caliber, on a team with a very easily tapped replacement (AA), for too many years, with a player with injury issues on a team with lots of players with on long term contracts with injury issues. Holland right now is the anti-Bowman. Instead of learning from successful teams on how they deal with the cap, namely trading middling players when it comes close to their paydays and trusting the youth/cheap players to fill in the gaps, Holland has signed or tried to sign every impending FA in recent memory to lifetime contracts. This has left Detroit being the literal worst team this season in dollars spent per win, and will cripple the team down the road when it comes to negotiating with future players.