wings_fanatic 677 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 I don't get the hate on Nyquist tonight. He was on of our better players. Their whole line was good. Hes looked a lot better since he was put back on hanks line. Tatar is the one who has sucked. 2 joesuffP and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: It would be if we weren't wasting nearly $15M on E, Kronwall and Nyquist. We'd save even more if Z would call it quits, but he still has some worth...not $7M cap hit worth, but more than the other 3. Not to beat dead horses, but Abby and Helm are grossly overpaid as well. You forgot DeKeyser. Green has played well, but is he worth $6 million? Seems like half this team wouldn't be getting this kind of money anywhere else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,961 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said: You forgot DeKeyser. Green has played well, but is he worth $6 million? Seems like half this team wouldn't be getting this kind of money anywhere else. Ya, we have a ton of players that should be making $1M to $2M less. Sad thing is, he's going to give Tatar $4M+ this summer...and probably Smith the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 40 minutes ago, F.Michael said: Which current NHL'er does this kid remind you of? He kind of reminds me of prime-years Eric Staal. Big-bodied franchise centerman, the complete package - that kind of player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ami 273 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 Red Wings' Henrik Zetterberg: 'Stretches like this make you stronger' (www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/11/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_st_4.html) I cried... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BinMucker94 302 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 Going to the game in Buffalo on Wednesday. Almost want to sell my tickets if it's going to be this bad. Guess I'll just get drunk enough to not care Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 I was there in person, with AA and Helm being out it really made us look a lot slower. Those two are both extremely important pieces to this team and I hope they get back soon. I didnt notice Nyquist play a bad game, was there something he did that maybe didnt come across live, but did on TV? A few notes, I liked the way the Z/Nyquist/Mantha line looked, I couldn't believe how nice of a shot Mantha has. This kid need to stay up with the big club. Everytime E touches the puck I cringe, Our D pretty much just look like they are all playing above their heads. I hate when people say all of our D sucks, because that is simply not true. Individually, we have good (not elite) D, but we lack a #1 and #2. Think about it like this, lets say we had Keith and Seabrook as our top pair, then if you had DD/Green on second pair, and Sproul/Smith or even Marchenko/XO on the third pairing and all of a sudden our D becomes one of the best in the league. Our old top pairing of Kronwall and E regressing to a point where they are 3rd pairing guys who are paid like first pairing guys has really really hurt us as nobody has stepped up in that role. I think this is pretty much the biggest problem with this team. Our former elite/upper end talent of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall regressed before our kids have been able to step up and replace them. Now we are in a position where our top guys are no longer top guys or in the case of Datsyuk gone, and our young guys are not there yet. I wish Larkin, AA, and Mantha were good enough to play top line together and produce like a #1 line, but they are not there yet. This is why it frustrates me when people are so hard on guys like DD, Tatar, Nyquist, Abby, Helm etc. These guys are not top tier guys, but because of the regression of others, they are asked to play like it and are failing. Nyquist should probably not be on a first line, but on this team he has to. DD should not be a #1 D man, but on this team he has to. When you put guys in roles where they are playing over there heads, they are going to appear bad however this does not mean they are bad players. This teams needs some top tier talent, unfortunately with the system in place now we are all going to have to wait. The growth of our kids, and the ability of Holland to find a #1 D man is HUGE and will dictate our future. I dont even know who is to "blame" for this, if anything I think this is just a part of the cyclical nature of sports. 9 derblaueClaus, Nev, cdjen and 6 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
derblaueClaus 1,668 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 4 hours ago, kliq said: I dont even know who is to "blame" for this, if anything I think this is just a part of the cyclical nature of sports. I agree with most of what you said kliq except this. We now pay our old guard way too much money. Zetterberg, Kronnwall, Ercisson all regressed as you pointed out but are still payed and will be payed elite/1st-line worth of money. In others words: It's also the long contracts Holland gave them that hamper us in a big way now. I know, most of them were made before the last lockout but other teams had this problem as well and found ways to mitigate it. And then maybe our drafting, but which just might have been bad luck. So there is this little thing where Holland actually is to blame. With the rest you are spot on. That said the current situation is a mess. Playoffs are probably gone, but this team is better than their losing streak. We have seen what they are capable of early in the season. Right now they look like they lack confidence. Too much passing, not enough shooting is an indicator for that. So blowing this team up or intentional tanking is not the right answer. It's probably best to let the kids play. We will miss the playoffs but we will also get better prepared for next season. 2 puckloo39 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings3:16 318 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 6 Detroit \# 1 Fan, puckloo39, DatsyukianDekes and 3 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckloo39 5,686 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 46 minutes ago, Wings3:16 said: this shouldn't be funny, but this picture made me laugh... thanks!! 2 Wings3:16 and NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 Mantha has looked great. He shouldn't ever play a game for Grand Rapids ever again. Nyquist hasn't been great, but is far from the problem with this team. Tatar has been bad. Vanek looked great in his return last night. The forward lines from last night were probably the best I've seen Blashill put together yet. I hope he keeps them for at least a few games. Once Athanasiou and Jurco are healthy I'd like to see something like... Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha Larkin - Nielsen - Vanek Tatar - Athanasiou - Jurco Abdelkader - Sheahan - Glendening Helm (LTIR) / Ott / Miller I have no problem with the way Ericsson has been playing. I think he has been one of our better defensemen all season. The key is, he's finally playing where he belongs in the lineup, on the 3rd pairing. I honestly think Marchenko has been dragging him down, being one of our worst defensemen in just about every game. The fact that he has yet to be a healthy scratch and Smith has been the last two games is troubling to me. I'm not sure if Marchenko would be ready to go next game after, but he should be the odd man out regardless. With everyone healthy we should see something like... Smith - Green DeKeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Kronwall Ouellet / Marchenko Smith and Green were our best pairing for stretched last season, and DeKeyser and Green have been a train wreck so far this season. I seen something the other day, something to the effect of, DeKeyser without Green is 33% corsi, DeKeyser with Green is 44% corsi, and Green with DeKeyser is a 55% corsi... It's pretty clear that DeKeyser is dragging Green down... Kronwall and Ericsson weren't great as a top pair, but maybe as a bottom pair in sheltered minutes they could be effective. Sproul has been great, and shouldn't ever come out of the lineup as long as he keeps up this level of play. 2 kliq and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, derblaueClaus said: I agree with most of what you said kliq except this. We now pay our old guard way too much money. Zetterberg, Kronnwall, Ercisson all regressed as you pointed out but are still payed and will be payed elite/1st-line worth of money. In others words: It's also the long contracts Holland gave them that hamper us in a big way now. I know, most of them were made before the last lockout but other teams had this problem as well and found ways to mitigate it. And then maybe our drafting, but which just might have been bad luck. So there is this little thing where Holland actually is to blame. With the rest you are spot on. That said the current situation is a mess. Playoffs are probably gone, but this team is better than their losing streak. We have seen what they are capable of early in the season. Right now they look like they lack confidence. Too much passing, not enough shooting is an indicator for that. So blowing this team up or intentional tanking is not the right answer. It's probably best to let the kids play. We will miss the playoffs but we will also get better prepared for next season. The thing is, I think all the teams that are very good are going to have identical issues as us down the road. Look at Chicago, until 2023 both Toews and Kane will have Caphits of 10.5mil, Seabrook 6.875, and Keith 5.538. They are bound to have similar issues unless all 4 of these guys can keep up there level of play for another 7 years, and if they do, will Chicago land any elite players in the process? Probably not. I think the NHL has been setup to be more cyclical then ever, and unfortunately we are on the down turn (or just starting the up turn depending on your thoughts of our kids) of our cycle. Agreed with drafting, for as good as Holland has been finding good players deep in the draft, he has been awful in the first round prior between the Kronwall and Mantha picks. I guess my point is that no GM can keep their team elite forever, but we had a damn good run between 1992 - 2011 (give or take a year or so on each end). Edited November 21, 2016 by kliq 2 krsmith17 and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: I have no problem with the way Ericsson has been playing. I think he has been one of our better defensemen all season. The key is, he's finally playing where he belongs in the lineup, on the 3rd pairing. I honestly think Marchenko has been dragging him down, being one of our worst defensemen in just about every game. The fact that he has yet to be a healthy scratch and Smith has been the last two games is troubling to me. I'm not sure if Marchenko would be ready to go next game after, but he should be the odd man out regardless. With everyone healthy we should see something like... My issue with E is in his own end, anytime he has the puck on his stick I cringe as I cant even count how many times he has tried to dump the puck out only to pass it right to the point man, or even worse right in front of net. With that being said, I think who's he's paired with and when he plays is vital in in his success and I 100% agree with what you said. Putting him on 3rd pairing with Kronwall would be a very good fit. Second pairing with Marchenko, needs to end. Ya it sucks seeing Smith out and E in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 I cringe watching any player on our team getting the puck out of our own end if there is any pressure in the zone. Seriously, the Red Wings CANNOT break out of their own end without hiccup this year so far. Smith will be back in now that Marchy went down. 3 kliq, krsmith17 and NerveDamage reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 Honestly, I'm not even that upset with Ericsson in over Smith, because like I said, I've been very impressed with E thus far. I just hate that Marchenko seems to keep getting a free pass for poor play. He should have been the healthy scratch over Sproul and / or Ouellet long ago, before Kronwall even came back. Ericsson has coughed up some pucks in his own zone, but so has literally every other defenseman. I think E gets a bad rap because of past play. Even when he has a great game like last night where he was the 2nd star, and led all Red Wings in corsi, people are still calling him out... I guess it's a similar situation as Smith over the past couple years. People will turn on a player in the blink of an eye, and for some reason once you get in some fans bad books, there's no getting out of it... Oh well... 2 e_prime and Detroit \# 1 Fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckbags 863 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 5 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Mantha has looked great. He shouldn't ever play a game for Grand Rapids ever again. Nyquist hasn't been great, but is far from the problem with this team. Tatar has been bad. Vanek looked great in his return last night. The forward lines from last night were probably the best I've seen Blashill put together yet. I hope he keeps them for at least a few games. Once Athanasiou and Jurco are healthy I'd like to see something like... Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha Larkin - Nielsen - Vanek Tatar - Athanasiou - Jurco Abdelkader - Sheahan - Glendening Helm (LTIR) / Ott / Miller I have no problem with the way Ericsson has been playing. I think he has been one of our better defensemen all season. The key is, he's finally playing where he belongs in the lineup, on the 3rd pairing. I honestly think Marchenko has been dragging him down, being one of our worst defensemen in just about every game. The fact that he has yet to be a healthy scratch and Smith has been the last two games is troubling to me. I'm not sure if Marchenko would be ready to go next game after, but he should be the odd man out regardless. With everyone healthy we should see something like... Smith - Green DeKeyser - Sproul Ericsson - Kronwall Ouellet / Marchenko Smith and Green were our best pairing for stretched last season, and DeKeyser and Green have been a train wreck so far this season. I seen something the other day, something to the effect of, DeKeyser without Green is 33% corsi, DeKeyser with Green is 44% corsi, and Green with DeKeyser is a 55% corsi... It's pretty clear that DeKeyser is dragging Green down... Kronwall and Ericsson weren't great as a top pair, but maybe as a bottom pair in sheltered minutes they could be effective. Sproul has been great, and shouldn't ever come out of the lineup as long as he keeps up this level of play. No offense but you have to be out of your mind to think this. The guy looks and plays scared all the time. The one thing I do notice with him is after he makes a terrible play ( which usually leads to a goal ) he usually plays very well for the rest of the game. Last night was an example of this. He was terrible early and then his game got better. E needs to take a seat in the press box and realize he isn't invincible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 21, 2016 4 hours ago, e_prime said: I cringe watching any player on our team getting the puck out of our own end if there is any pressure in the zone. Seriously, the Red Wings CANNOT break out of their own end without hiccup this year so far. Smith will be back in now that Marchy went down. Its so true. I would love to see stats on how many goals we have allowed in the last 2 years in the final 2 min of a game when tied or up by one. I feel we are the worst in the league. Our D is dreadful at clearing the puck. 4 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Honestly, I'm not even that upset with Ericsson in over Smith, because like I said, I've been very impressed with E thus far. I just hate that Marchenko seems to keep getting a free pass for poor play. He should have been the healthy scratch over Sproul and / or Ouellet long ago, before Kronwall even came back. Ericsson has coughed up some pucks in his own zone, but so has literally every other defenseman. I think E gets a bad rap because of past play. Even when he has a great game like last night where he was the 2nd star, and led all Red Wings in corsi, people are still calling him out... I guess it's a similar situation as Smith over the past couple years. People will turn on a player in the blink of an eye, and for some reason once you get in some fans bad books, there's no getting out of it... Oh well... I want to add as I may sound a bit unfair about E. When he has the puck, yes I cringe, but I feel when he doesn't have the puck, he is one of our best. He definitely has his strengths. If he was on the 3rd pairing making 1.2 mil per year and 26 years old, I don't think anyone would talk poorly of him. He's a victim of his contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckloo39 5,686 Report post Posted November 22, 2016 (edited) Buffalo is beating Calgary 3-1 going into the third. Sabres can beat them, but we couldn't. edit: Sabres won 4-2 Edited November 22, 2016 by puckloo39 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, puckloo39 said: Buffalo is beating Calgary 3-1 going into the third. Sabres can beat them, but we couldn't. edit: Sabres won 4-2 You really can't look at hockey this way. Any team can beat any other team on any given night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdjen 21 Report post Posted November 22, 2016 You really can't look at hockey this way. Any team can beat any other team on any given night. I would say "any team can beat the Wings on any given night!!!" Just saying!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
