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blgillett

Defense

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6 hours ago, GoalieManPat said:

Its crazy to see people are automatically dismissing Cholowski based solely on the Datsyuk salary dumping trade. People want to see the kid fail just so they can say they were right about not drafting Chych.

Not dismissing him, but Chych is obv much closer to NHL ready than him. Already in the NHL, just not playing every night. Plays a good two way game already, big kid who loves to hit. Something the Wings sorely needed. Cholowski is more offence oriented and needs work on defence and major gym time and he's in college, so he's not coming anytime soon. He'll probly end up as the typical Wings player. More offensive minded and shy's away from the rough stuff.

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5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

The thing is, Chychrun would be just another suppressed youngster. He wouldn't be here now, and with the Swedish pylons still signed for years, he wouldn't be here anytime soon.

This is true. Lashoff played over Sproul last night didn't he? Pretty much says it all.

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Lashoff has played 2 games over Sproul. I get that he may be a defensive defenseman, but he shouldn't be in at the expense of Sproul. But since we have 2 pretty useless D men making over $4M a year in Kronwall and Ericsson, there is no way that either of them would sit, outside of injury, because they can't have $4M being a healthy scratch. Although, talent wise, we are better with Sproul, XO and, yes, Lashoff playing in place of the other two.

IMO, this team needs to be without the Swedish pylons and Smith before next season starts. But....Holland. 

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5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

IMO, this team needs to be without the Swedish pylons and Smith before next season starts. But....Holland. 

How would you suggest he do that? Do you think there are teams lining up to take those contracts?

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Don't really think Ericsson has been as bad as last few years

Agreed....he is definitely not worth his contract, but some make him out to be an anchor on this team. E getting paid 1.5 per year on the 3rd pairing would be an excellent contract.

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6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Don't really think Ericsson has been as bad as last few years

He's hasn't. Not really even that bad before then either, just playing over his head. He's a solid 2nd pair guy, and when he's been used there he's been good.

His contract isn't even bad, really. Only in the context of we already had enough mid-level players getting paid, so probably would have better with a cheaper option even if not as good a player.

 

And for those talking about Sproul, he's actually been pretty bad so far. Got a few points early, and takes a lot of shots, but his advanced stats are about the worst on the team. Maybe not "replace him with Lashoff" bad, but pretty bad. Maybe getting scratched for an AHL plug will motivate him.

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Smith is average and is taking up a roster spot.  I certainly hope that he does not get re-signed, but after the last few off season's I have no reason to think he won't. Holland just keeps these guys on for too long. Not that they're horrible, but we have better replacements in the organization.  I honestly think we would've have been fine without re-signing Helm or Miller...

Edited by LeftWinger

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13 hours ago, Buppy said:

And for those talking about Sproul, he's actually been pretty bad so far. Got a few points early, and takes a lot of shots, but his advanced stats are about the worst on the team. Maybe not "replace him with Lashoff" bad, but pretty bad. Maybe getting scratched for an AHL plug will motivate him.

All things considered, I'd say Sproul's been fine. Prior to his recent struggles, his CF% had consistently ranked among the best on the team -- and, watching him play, I don't feel that's a fluke. When he's on his game, he's visibly effective on both sides of the puck, especially in driving the attack up ice. (Dat first pass tho.) When he's not on his game, he looks like what he is: a naturally gifted 23-year-old offensive defenseman...with less than 20 games of NHL experience under his belt.

Edited by Dabura

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As for fixing this defense...

On 12/4/2016 at 0:49 PM, blgillett said:

This has probably been asked but here it is again. What are the Wings going to do for a Defenseman we really need a number one guy and could use a second top three guy to go along with that?

It depends on where we are come the trade deadline. If we sell, we're basically launching a rebuild. If we don't sell...I dunno know, man. Sign Michael Stone in the summer? (We're not getting Shattenkirk.) Try to trade for a young up-and-comer like Julius Honka, Shea Theodore, Anthony DeAngelo? Pray? Drink?

Edited by Dabura

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2 hours ago, Dabura said:

All things considered, I'd say Sproul's been fine. Prior to his recent struggles, his CF% had consistently ranked among the best on the team -- and, watching him play, I don't feel that's a fluke. When he's on his game, he's visibly effective on both sides of the ice, especially in driving the attack up ice. (Dat first pass tho.) When he's not on his game, he looks like what he is: a naturally gifted 23-year-old offensive defenseman...with less than 20 games of NHL experience under his belt.

He's been fine for a kid just breaking into the league, sure. But you're off base on the rest.

He's played 15 games. He hasn't done anything consistent in the NHL. His CF% started out bad, but aside from a few bad games he was better in his second stretch in the lineup. The main area where he's been bad has been generating offense. Worst 5v5 CF60 on the team. 9 of 14 games he's been below even our team average (which is the worst in the league), and two more barely above. 5v5 GF60 is also worst on the team (by a big margin), as is his GA60. Scored 1 goal with him on the ice in his last 11 games (and 8 GA).

I don't have a problem with him struggling. It should probably be expected even. Just pointing out that Blashill maybe isn't quite as dumb as people think.

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Blashill is dumb for scratching Sproul for Lashoff. If it were for Marchenko, I'd still be kind of pissed, but for Lashoff? Give me a f***ing break.

I can't speak for everyone but I think for most people, we just want to see the kids play, and actually be given a legit shot to prove themselves. Make mistakes. Learn from your mistakes. I wasn't even that upset to see Sproul sit for a game (he wasn't great the past couple), but to be sitting his third straight, for Brain f***ing Lashoff, who has played just as poorly, is bulls***.

I just wish the kids (Sproul, Ouellet, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, and Jurco) were all treated equally to the vets, when it comes to cutting minutes, demoting, scratching, etc. If you're going to scratch Sproul for consecutive games for playing poorly, you damn well better scratch Ericsson for the same reason. Same goes for Jurco, give the kid a legit shot in the top 9, he's played great, just hasn't scored yet. Meanwhile Glendening has been less effective in that role, but continues to play on the second line with Nielsen and Jurco gets demoted to the 4th line again...

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3 hours ago, Buppy said:

He's been fine for a kid just breaking into the league, sure. But you're off base on the rest.

He's played 15 games. He hasn't done anything consistent in the NHL. His CF% started out bad, but aside from a few bad games he was better in his second stretch in the lineup. The main area where he's been bad has been generating offense. Worst 5v5 CF60 on the team. 9 of 14 games he's been below even our team average (which is the worst in the league), and two more barely above. 5v5 GF60 is also worst on the team (by a big margin), as is his GA60. Scored 1 goal with him on the ice in his last 11 games (and 8 GA).

I don't have a problem with him struggling. It should probably be expected even. Just pointing out that Blashill maybe isn't quite as dumb as people think.

I haven't been digging into the underlying numbers as much as I normally would, mainly because this team is playing boneheaded hockey and it's making me increasingly apathetic. I'm pretty sure, though, that his CF% (5-on-5) had in fact been relatively good for a long stretch of time. Even now, I think he's currently sitting at something like 45, which isn't great, but it puts him somewhere in the middle of our lineup. I stand by the notion that when he's playing well, he's making good plays out of our end and helping to push the puck up the ice while also being responsible on the defensive side of the puck. That's largely the eye test talking, but he's so young (for a defenseman) and inexperienced and our team is so resoundingly awful by most metrics that I'm putting more stock in what I'm seeing than I normally would.

So, I'm ok with what he's shown so far this season. I do think Blashill was right to sit him after his most recent games, though. I joked about this in a different thread, but I actually do believe a young and inexperienced defenseman can really benefit from watching a few games as a spectator. If nothing else, some time in the press box gives him a chance to mentally reset.

Edited by Dabura

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5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

That's largely the eye test talking, but he's so young (for a defenseman) and inexperienced and our team is so resoundingly awful by most metrics that I'm putting more stock in what I'm seeing than I normally would.

To be clear, I don't mean I'm rejecting what the metrics tell us about this team. I'm saying this team has performed so poorly that I'm not sure there's much to learn from the numbers right now.

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Sproul has had three or four "bad" games (Boston, Buffalo, Dallas and Pittsburgh), but in my opinion has been one of our better defensemen in most other games he's played this year. He sat for two weeks after the Boston game, which I didn't think he was that bad in, and when he got back in, the game against Tampa, that was one of the better games he played all season. I agree that he should have sat a game or two, but he's sitting again tomorrow, when I believe he should be playing. Send Lashoff back to the minors. He's not an NHL quality player...

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14 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Sproul has had three or four "bad" games (Boston, Buffalo, Dallas and Pittsburgh), but in my opinion has been one of our better defensemen in most other games he's played this year. He sat for two weeks after the Boston game, which I didn't think he was that bad in, and when he got back in, the game against Tampa, that was one of the better games he played all season. I agree that he should have sat a game or two, but he's sitting again tomorrow, when I believe he should be playing. Send Lashoff back to the minors. He's not an NHL quality player...

 

This s*** happens because Blashill isn't an NHL coach. At least he shouldn't be

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Marchenko getting back in the lineup tonight, likely taking Ouellet's place... Couple that with Lashoff being in for Sproul, this defense is looking real gud...

That's craziness if Marchenko doesn't take Lashoff's spot. Lashoff's supposed to be the quiet sound D type, but him being weak on the puck caused the first goal last game. Still don't know why we didn't call up Jensen instead of him to start with.

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47 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

That's craziness if Marchenko doesn't take Lashoff's spot. Lashoff's supposed to be the quiet sound D type, but him being weak on the puck caused the first goal last game. Still don't know why we didn't call up Jensen instead of him to start with.

What I dont understand is clearly the Wings dont see much of a future with Lashoff given that he didnt play a single game last year, was put through waivers this year, and was only called up because of multiple injuries. With that being said, now that he is up how can they all of a sudden want to play him over Sproul a guy with top 4 upside? Unless Sproul did something stupid we dont know about, or is hurt, I dont get it.

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