Our Young Players

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, Richdg said:

At best he could be a backup. Most likely he isn't that good, nor is he that young. Remember I was talking about 5 years from now. Coreau will be 30 at that point. Not old, but if he isn't making it with us soon, he will leave to play somewhere else.

It is also an unknown if Mrazek is a start for us. There are no sure things. Until a player comes into the league and has multiple good seasons we can't say that they are a star or even a solid NHL player.

As for Svechnikov he is playing great. Any writer that thinks a guy has made it or failed after their first 25 games as a pro hockey player is a total fool. Most players need at least 1 full season to adjust to the NA pro game. How many Euros have dominated their pro leagues in europe and struggled here? Most do. Jumping from Juniors or College to pro hockey is a huge leap. He is on pace to score 20+ over a full season. Nothing to complain about at all. He kills penalties and plays on the PP, so clearly his coach likes him. Bob and Larry love the guy and his attitude. Spent 10+ mins during the game last night expressing their man love for him. Did the same thing with Smith about 10 days ago as well.

Svechnikov played for Cape Breton in the QMHL for the past 2 years, so the switch to the NA game doesn't apply. But I agree that players often struggle getting into the AHL and a pro schedule and it's not something to worry about. I'm high on Svech from what I've seen.

Your calculation for his scoring pace is off, though. AHL teams play 76 games so he's on pace for 19. That would be a better goal per game amount than Mantha and slightly less than AA in their first years.

Edited December 23, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

On 12/21/2016 at 11:36 PM, Richdg said:

His 1st goal tonight was awesome. Ran over 1 defender, skated around another to score on a backhand through the 5 hole. He showed his size/power, speed/skating, and great hands all in 1 play. On a side note, he leads the griffs in PIM's.

When you lead your team in PIM and have no fighting majors its not a positive thing. It shows you are undisciplined and put your team in a major disadvantage far to often. 

[Richdg 267]

54 minutes ago, GoalieManPat said:

When you lead your team in PIM and have no fighting majors its not a positive thing. It shows you are undisciplined and put your team in a major disadvantage far to often. 

Depends on how he is getting the PIM's. There have been many NHL players who were admired for their fencing abilities! LOL

Besides, we have to many guys that are flat out afriad to even think of doing something borderline/against the rules. Many people like Tatar because he shows some fire and passion. This team is stale in every way. We could use some undisciplined players.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Richdg

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, Richdg said:

Depends on how he is getting the PIM's. There have been many NHL players who were admired for their fencing abilities! LOL

Besides, we have to many guys that are flat out afriad to even think of doing something borderline/against the rules. Many people like Tatar because he shows some fire and passion. This team is stale in every way. We could use some undisciplined players.

Stupid penalties do not make a team better, it just puts you on the PK more often.

A player being tough and gritty is completely different then a player slashing other players when he gets upset. When I think of that I think of a whiny Sydney Crosby in 2009.

Our team is not "stale", we lack elite talent AND we have alot of injuries. You take a few of the top players away from a team already lacking top guys, and this is what you get.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Rich and Johans, start following basketball. You will be positively surprised how many svechnikovs play right away. Youll love it.

[kipwinger 8,492]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:23 AM, krsmith17 said:

Larkin - 1st line center.

Mantha - 1st line winger.

Athanasiou - 2nd line center / winger.

Svechnikov - 2nd line winger.

Jurco - 3rd line winger.

Bertuzzi - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Smith - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Turgeon - 3rd / 4th line center.

Sadowy - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Nastasiuk - 4th line winger / bust.

Frk - 3rd line winger / bust.

Nosek - 3rd line center / bust.

Holmstrom - 3rd line center / winger / bust.

Cholowski - 1st / 2nd pair defenseman.

Sproul - 1st / 2nd pair defenseman.

Ouellet - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Russo - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Hicketts - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Renouf - 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Sambrook - 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Marchenko - 3rd pair defenseman.

Saarijarvi - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Hronek - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Mrazek - number one goaltender.

Coreau - starter / very good backup goaltender.

 

 

I'm just gonna leave this here for context.  Apparently watching tons of Griffins games doesn't help all that much.

[kliq 3,755]

On 12/18/2016 at 10:11 PM, kliq said:

There has been a lot of talk on the board lately about re-building, building on the fly, tanking etc. That's not what I want to talk about as that as well as Blashill and Holland is already going on in every other thread. I want to discuss our current collection of young players, and what the majority here think they will become.

What do you think the outcome for Larkin, Mantha, Mrazek, AA, Jurco, Bertuzzi, Sproul, Marchenko, XO, Coreau, Hicketts  Russo, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Saarijarvi, Turgeon, Holmstrom or anyone I didnt list and is in our organization and younger then 25 will be in 5 years?

Do you think anyone on this list can become elite? A star? Is this a group of good secondary players? All third Liners? Mostly busts? A combination?   

Thoughts?

Wow, forgot about this thread. I bolded all the flops (though flops may not be the right word considering some of them were low end picks anyways.

Nice that we got 3 legit all star level players in Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Mantha.

I wont even touch on AA, Ill just say that we definitely got a guy with talent with that pick.

Mrazek was a bust for us, but seemed to rebound into an average starter for Carolina.

We'll see about Cholowski, Svech, and Turgeon.

Its cool re-reading these old threads.

[krsmith17 7,191]

54 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm just gonna leave this here for context.  Apparently watching tons of Griffins games doesn't help all that much.

Cute.

If I cared enough, I'm sure I could come up with a list just as bad or worse by every single person on here. I don't care enough...

I'm not claiming to know all because I watch the Griffins, but someone that watches the games should in theory know more than someone that doesn't.

I was dead on with quite a few, off slightly on another few, and dead wrong on a few as well. Most of the one's I was wrong on, most people had similar projections as well. The only one I was surprised about was Hronek. I don't ever remember being that low on him. It must have been the following season when I got on the Hronek hype train...

Sproul was the one I was the furthest off on the other way. But most everyone (including you) thought he would become a top 4 defenseman. You also by the way, thought that Athanasiou was going to be better than Larkin...

[kipwinger 8,492]

49 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Cute.

If I cared enough, I'm sure I could come up with a list just as bad or worse by every single person on here. I don't care enough...

I'm not claiming to know all because I watch the Griffins, but someone that watches the games should in theory know more than someone that doesn't.

I was dead on with quite a few, off slightly on another few, and dead wrong on a few as well. Most of the one's I was wrong on, most people had similar projections as well. The only one I was surprised about was Hronek. I don't ever remember being that low on him. It must have been the following season when I got on the Hronek hype train...

Sproul was the one I was the furthest off on the other way. But most everyone (including you) thought he would become a top 4 defenseman. You also by the way, thought that Athanasiou was going to be better than Larkin...

Not if that person is a dumbf*ck.

Hahahahaa,  you're pathetic.   AA is closer to Larkin than Bertuzzi is to a 4th liner,  or Svech is to a second liner,  or Coreau is to an NHL goalie.   And the ones you were "right about" were the product of you hedging your projections on two extremes.  Frk is either a 3rd liner or a bust Huh? Wow,  way to go out on a limb.   So he will either be as good as someone like Jakub vrana or Carl Hagelin or else not even be in the league?  That's a hot take bro.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Hahahahaa,  you're pathetic.   AA is closer to Larking than bertuzzi is to a 4th liner,  or Svech is to a second liner,  or Coreau is to an NHL goalie.   And the ones you were "right about" were the product of you hedging your projections on two extremes.  Frk is either a 3rd liner or a bust Huh? Wow,  way to go out on a limb.   So he will either be as good as someone like Jakub Beans or Carl Hagelin or else not even be in the league?  That's a hot take bro.  

I said Bertuzzi - 3rd / 4th liner. He's more like a 2nd / 3rd liner. I'm sure you thought he was going to be as good as he's turned out though right? I bet...

The jury is still out on Svechnikov, but I still think he could be a decent 3rd line winger.

Coreau, I was way off on.

How is 3rd line or bust two extremes? It's not like I said 1st line or bust. I'd put Hirose into that same category now.

I wasn't going for hot takes "bro", I was going for what I thought at the time to be decent projections. Some were. Some weren't.

You also thought Frk was going to be a 3rd liner, and I'm pretty sure you were even higher than that on Pulkkinen. You've had your fair share of terrible takes, just like the rest of us.

[kipwinger 8,492]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I said Bertuzzi - 3rd / 4th liner. He's more like a 2nd / 3rd liner. I'm sure you thought he was going to be as good as he's turned out though right? I bet...

The jury is still out on Svechnikov, but I still think he could be a decent 3rd line winger.

Coreau, I was way off on.

How is 3rd line or bust two extremes? It's not like I said 1st line or bust. I'd put Hirose into that same category now.

I wasn't going for hot takes "bro", I was going for what I thought at the time to be decent projections. Some were. Some weren't.

You also thought Frk was going to be a 3rd liner, and I'm pretty sure you were even higher than that on Pulkkinen. You've had your fair share of terrible takes, just like the rest of us.

I did think Frk would be a 3rd liner.   I was wrong.   At least I'm not claiming I was "right" because I picked him to BOTH be an NHLer and also NOT be one.   Again,  you're a joke.   

Lemme put this in terms you'll understand.   You either don't know s*** about prospects (despite all the minor league hockey you claim to watch) or you're Jiri  Fischer. 

Also,  are you seriously claiming Bertuzzi is a 2nd/3rd line tweener now just to bolster your already terrible projections?  You're delusional.   He leads our team in points, he's an all star,  and he played 95% of the season on the top line.   He was only moved off the top line in order to get another line going.   

It's dumb Sh*t like this that ruins your already flimsy credibility.   

Edited February 11, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I did think Frk would be a 3rd liner.   I was wrong.   At least I'm not claiming I was "right" because I picked him to BOTH be an NHLer and also NOT be one.   Again,  you're a joke.   

Lemme out this in terms you'll understand.   You either don't know s*** about prospects (despite all the minor league hockey you claim to watch) or you're Jiri  Fischer. 

So, lemme ask you this in a way your dumbass will understand. If Frk wasn't going to be a 3rd liner, do you think he would have been a good checking 4th liner? Hell no...

A lot of borderline "skilled" NHL / AHL players are 3rd line or bust. You don't have to be a f***ing genius to understand such a simple concept...

[kipwinger 8,492]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So, lemme ask you this in a way your dumbass will understand. If Frk wasn't going to be a 3rd liner, do you think he would have been a good checking 4th liner? Hell no...

A lot of borderline "skilled" NHL / AHL players are 3rd line or bust. You don't have to be a f***ing genius to understand such a simple concept...

Funny how you don't apply that same rationale to Perlini. Or Comrie.  Can we add them to your laundry list of big prospect insights?  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Wait, who watched the games?

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Funny how you don't apply that same rationale to Perlini. Or Comrie.  Can we add them to your laundry list of big prospect insights?  

What the f*** are you talking about? I said Perline could be a solid middle six winger. He's already proven elsewhere that he can be that. It hasn't (yet) worked out here. Oh well. I said we should have reclaimed Comrie for goaltender depth in Grand Rapids. I sure was wrong on those "projections"... Try harder dude...

[kipwinger 8,492]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What the f*** are you talking about? I said Perline could be a solid middle six winger. He's already proven elsewhere that he can be that. It hasn't (yet) worked out here. Oh well. I said we should have reclaimed Comrie for goaltender depth in Grand Rapids. I sure was wrong on those "projections"... Try harder dude...

Maybe I just need to watch more AHL hockey to bring my talent evaluation skills into laser focus like yours.   Only a true AHL guru can see that a guy who's been bounced around to 3 teams in 3 years, with totally inconsistent (and now non-existant) production is a "proven solid middle six winger".  

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Maybe I just need to watch more AHL hockey to bring my talent evaluation skills into laser focus like yours.   Only a true AHL guru can see that a guy who's been bounced around to 3 teams in 3 years, with totally inconsistent (and now non-existant) production is a "proven solid middle six winger".  

Yup, I'm sure acting like a guru with my hot take of Veleno becoming a 2C... I don't claim to know all, but like I said earlier, someone that watches, should in theory know more than someone that doesn't.

Yeah, no reclamation projects have ever worked out... EVER... 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yup, I'm sure acting like a guru with my hot take of Veleno becoming a 2C... I don't claim to know all, but like I said earlier, someone that watches, should in theory know more than someone that doesn't.

How do you afford the 50 bucks every year? I keep trying to budget it in so I can finally watch a Griffins game for the first time, but can't make it work :(

[kliq 3,755]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:23 AM, krsmith17 said:

Larkin - 1st line center.

Mantha - 1st line winger.

Athanasiou - 2nd line center / winger.

Svechnikov - 2nd line winger.

Jurco - 3rd line winger.

Bertuzzi - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Smith - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Turgeon - 3rd / 4th line center.

Sadowy - 3rd / 4th line winger.

Nastasiuk - 4th line winger / bust.

Frk - 3rd line winger / bust.

Nosek - 3rd line center / bust.

Holmstrom - 3rd line center / winger / bust.

Cholowski - 1st / 2nd pair defenseman.

Sproul - 1st / 2nd pair defenseman.

Ouellet - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Russo - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Hicketts - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman.

Renouf - 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Sambrook - 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Marchenko - 3rd pair defenseman.

Saarijarvi - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Hronek - 2nd / 3rd pair defenseman / bust.

Mrazek - number one goaltender.

Coreau - starter / very good backup goaltender.

I don't think these picks are bad. I'd say the bold is all spot on, green is too early to tell, and only the purple are misses. Really its just the middle tier D that you got wrong, but D are extremely hard to project. I'd say your forward predictions were pretty spot on minus Bertuzzi exceeding (though a case can be made that on a great team, he could be a very good 3rd line guy), and Jurco who was a disappointment. 

[kipwinger 8,492]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

I don't think these picks are bad. I'd say the bold is all spot on, green is too early to tell, and only the purple are misses. Really its just the middle tier D that you got wrong, but D are extremely hard to project. I'd say your forward predictions were pretty spot on minus Bertuzzi exceeding (though a case can be made that on a great team, he could be a very good 3rd line guy), and Jurco who was a disappointment. 

Sure, if you want to consider "...or bust" an accurate prediction.  Saying Dan Renouf is either going to be an NHL player, or not one, isn't a win.  You could literally do that with any player ever.  Anthony Mantha?  He'll either be a top six winger, or a bust.  Can't be wrong with that bold prediction. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Ill tell ya this poop team has made me a real sour puss. Id go as far as to stay im downright flustered. 

Larkin aint no 1st line center. AA aint no 2nd line center. Big maybe if Mantha truly is a 1st line winger and hes about to be 26. Bertuzzi and Fabbri aint no 1st liners no how neither.

[kliq 3,755]

43 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Sure, if you want to consider "...or bust" an accurate prediction.  Saying Dan Renouf is either going to be an NHL player, or not one, isn't a win.  You could literally do that with any player ever.  Anthony Mantha?  He'll either be a top six winger, or a bust.  Can't be wrong with that bold prediction. 

It’s not like this a contest where there are specific rules. It’s just someone giving predictions, what’s the big deal? Even if he was wrong, who cares? I find it odd that this thread got so ugly.

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ill tell ya this poop team has made me a real sour puss. Id go as far as to stay im downright flustered. 

Larkin aint no 1st line center. AA aint no 2nd line center. Big maybe if Mantha truly is a 1st line winger and hes about to be 26. Bertuzzi and Fabbri aint no 1st liners no how neither.

I’m very interested to see how this team does under Gallant next year. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

42 minutes ago, kliq said:

It’s not like this a contest where there are specific rules. It’s just someone giving predictions, what’s the big deal? Even if he was wrong, who cares? I find it odd that this thread got so ugly.

I’m very interested to see how this team does under Gallant next year. 

Were all on a real edge. 

Do i honestly kno how to handle a wings team this bad? No. Im an angry man in a foreign land. 

I hope yzerman burns this team to the ******* ground and sacrafices everyone to jesus. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Sure, if you want to consider "...or bust" an accurate prediction.  Saying Dan Renouf is either going to be an NHL player, or not one, isn't a win.  You could literally do that with any player ever.  Anthony Mantha?  He'll either be a top six winger, or a bust.  Can't be wrong with that bold prediction. 

No where did I say "NHL player or bust". And it's not at all a uncommon to think a player will be a 3rd pair defenseman or bust (aka tweener). Top six winger or bust, yeah that's exactly the same thing... 

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ill tell ya this poop team has made me a real sour puss. Id go as far as to stay im downright flustered. 

Larkin aint no 1st line center. AA aint no 2nd line center. Big maybe if Mantha truly is a 1st line winger and hes about to be 26. Bertuzzi and Fabbri aint no 1st liners no how neither.

Agreed.

D-Boss would most likely be a 2nd line center on a dozen teams in the league - maybe more.