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2017 Draft

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1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

So the first top 5 pick in what seems to be an eternity and people are willing to trade him. What makes some guys think Trouba would sign an extension here? Love the kid, great player and underappreciated in Winnipeg but his contract is over after next season and then he will be an UFA.

This first round pick is the option for a cost controlled player who has the potential to either become the much needed number 1 center (Patrick), or a defensive stud (Foote, Liljegren..)

Its all about probability. The probability of Trouba becoming a 1A d-man is much higher then a top 5 pick being a 1A d-man. Unless we are talking a can't miss like an Ekblad, I take Trouba every time.

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Its all about probability. The probability of Trouba becoming a 1A d-man is much higher then a top 5 pick being a 1A d-man. Unless we are talking a can't miss like an Ekblad, I take Trouba every time.

Trouba is awesome but he will also be free after next year. So if he is interested in coming here you go after him then and by adding a top 5 pick it would maybe entice him more.

Lilejegren, Foote + Trouba + Danny D. is a damn good start for rebuilding the defense.

Altough Patrick would be awesome outtanking the Avs, Isles and Coyotes will be tough.

It sucks that there aren't any can't miss elite guys this year.

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Just now, frankgrimes said:

 


Trouba is awesome but he will also be free after next year. So if he is interested in coming here you go after him then and by adding a top 5 pick it would maybe entice him more.

Lilejegren, Foote + Trouba + Danny D. is a damn good start for rebuilding the defense.
Altough Patrick would be awesome outtanking the Avs, Isles and Coyotes will be tough.
 

No he's not a UFA, he's is an RFA again. Trouba is only 22 and he has quite a few years left under team control. I believe most guys become UFA's around 26 or 28.

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Trouba is 22 years old, has been poorly utilized in Winnipeg, and despite that is currently having a career year. So far he has 13 points in 27 games, his 0.48 points per game is good for 36th in the league for defensemen. He absolutely is / will be a top pair defenseman. The only question is, will he become a true number one?... On our current roster, I'd only put Green ahead of him, and in two years time, whether Green is still here or not, Trouba would likely be the best defenseman on the team. Trouba is better than DeKeyser and it's not even close...

You can't seriously think "Foote is already a better offensive player"?... If Foote played 27 games in Winnipeg this season, he wouldn't have anything close to 13 points, likewise, if Trouba played 42 games down in Kelowna, he'd sure as hell have more than 30 points...

I'd take Ekblad (wouldn't happen even if we had all thirty 2017 1st round picks), Jones or Hamilton over Trouba, but I see Trouba as the most attainable, even though I don't see any as being very likely...

Except he didn't when he was in Junior. In the 11/12 season while playing for the USNDP he played 54 games and had 32 points. At Michigan he had 1 good year as well. Foote on the other hand is heading for 50+ points this year in the WHL. Next season will be his 3rd year and he should be even better unless he makes his NHL drafting team out of camp.

Back to Trouba. If he wasn't from Michigan NO ONE would be pushing so hard or have such a high opinion of him. He is the 4th best Dman on the Jets behind Buff, Toby, and Meyers-who is hurt. Now would I want him for say Nyquist and Smith? Yes I would. I proposed that trade while he was holding out.

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23 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Except he didn't when he was in Junior. In the 11/12 season while playing for the USNDP he played 54 games and had 32 points. At Michigan he had 1 good year as well. Foote on the other hand is heading for 50+ points this year in the WHL. Next season will be his 3rd year and he should be even better unless he makes his NHL drafting team out of camp.

Back to Trouba. If he wasn't from Michigan NO ONE would be pushing so hard or have such a high opinion of him. He is the 4th best Dman on the Jets behind Buff, Toby, and Meyers-who is hurt. Now would I want him for say Nyquist and Smith? Yes I would. I proposed that trade while he was holding out.

This is a great post Rich. The upshot from this is he is an anchor of a contract waiting to happen.

Edited by BringBack19

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So what was your favourite part of his post? The fact that he just made up numbers or that he strayed from his original argument? 32 points in 54 games? Where are you getting these numbers? He put up 29 points in 37 games at UofM, and he put up 18 points in 22 games in his final season (draft year) in the USHL... And what's your point anyway? Why does it matter what kind of production Trouba had at the college level? Your argument is that Foote is better offensively NOW than Trouba is NOW, which is asinine... 

Trouba is not "the 4th best defenseman on Winnipeg" either. Byfuglien may be better right now, but Enstrom and Meyers definitely aren't.

EDIT: I see where you came up with the 32 points in 54 games, but I don't get why you would add together his Junior and US National U18 stats, or what it even has to do with your original argument...

Edited by krsmith17

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18 minutes ago, BringBack19 said:

This is a great post Rich. The upshot from this is he is an anchor of a contract waiting to happen.

I wouldn't go that far at all. Trouba is a good young talent. Most Dmen don't reach their max until their late 20's. Both Trouba and DD have room to improve/grow as players. But look at their numbers by year. There is very little between them.

2013/14

DD: 23 points 65 games 64 hits 13 takeaways 116 blocks 36 giveaways +10

Trouba: 29 points 65 games 95 hits 31 takeaways 132 blocks 88 giveaways +4

2014/15

DD: 31 points 80 games 74 hits 14 takeaways 88 blocks 38 giveaways +11

Trouba: 22 points 65 games 97 hits 28 takeaways 120 blocks 76 giveaways +2

2015/16

DD: 20 points 78 games 88 hits 17 takeaways 107 blocks 38 giveaways +2

Trouba: 21 points 81 games 144 hits 29 takeaways 177 blocks 65 giveaways +10

2016/17

DD: 6 points 40 games 47 hits 7 takeaways 83 blocks 27 giveaways -13

Trouba: 13 points 27 games 40 hits 15 takeaways 58 blocks 30 giveaways +4

Where is the big difference between these 2? There isn't much. Trouba is a more physical player-more hits and blocks, DD is better with the puck far fewer turnovers. Offense is about the same. DD is a couple of years older.

In the end not much seperates these 2. In a perfect world they would form a second pair together. 1 is RHed and 1 is LHed. Perfect.

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1 hour ago, Richdg said:

Except he didn't when he was in Junior. In the 11/12 season while playing for the USNDP he played 54 games and had 32 points. At Michigan he had 1 good year as well. Foote on the other hand is heading for 50+ points this year in the WHL. Next season will be his 3rd year and he should be even better unless he makes his NHL drafting team out of camp.

Back to Trouba. If he wasn't from Michigan NO ONE would be pushing so hard or have such a high opinion of him. He is the 4th best Dman on the Jets behind Buff, Toby, and Meyers-who is hurt. Now would I want him for say Nyquist and Smith? Yes I would. I proposed that trade while he was holding out.

You can't evaluate a player solely on OHL points. Sproul had 66 points in 50 games, Ekblad had 53 points in 58 games. I dont think anyone would argue Sproul was a better player going into the draft then Ekblad.

I couldn't care less that Trouba is from Michigan, and that truly has zero to do with me wanting us to acquire him. I dont live in Michigan (same goes for krsmith17) so why would I care. I want to acquire him because he is a player who has 1A D-man upside and wants out of his current situation. Name me another player in the NHL that is 22 or younger with that upside and wants out. If players like Ekblad or OEL were available I would want them to, but they are not going anywhere.

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20 minutes ago, BringBack19 said:

He is going to demand a huge contract on maybe developing into a #1. Not something you want to do when you're facing a complete rebuild.

With that type of thinking this team is going nowhere. If an elite d-man comes your way you take him.

Also, by the time he would be due for a big contract, Howard, Green, Vanek, Miller, Ott,and Smith will all be gone. Plus I would also bet Kronwall will be on LTIR ala Franzen come two years from now. Cap space will not be an issue. Look at what the Leafs did with Phenuef, Kessel and Clarkson, you dump a few contracts and you are fine.

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2 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Trouba is awesome but he will also be free after next year. So if he is interested in coming here you go after him then and by adding a top 5 pick it would maybe entice him more.

Lilejegren, Foote + Trouba + Danny D. is a damn good start for rebuilding the defense.

Altough Patrick would be awesome outtanking the Avs, Isles and Coyotes will be tough.

It sucks that there aren't any can't miss elite guys this year.

That fact that there isn't any can't miss elite guys is a perfect reason to trade the pick for an elite guy.  Even if you get the #1 Overall, IMO, it'd be better to trade it for the elite D man and a lower 1st could get you Foote or Hague. Again, if a team pays up for Vanek and we get a 25-30 1st as well, we could possibly draft both. But getting Hamilton or Trouba PLUS the chance at getting Foote or Hague. You just can't pass that opportunity up for maybe in Patrick or Liljegren. 

Let's say we get #1, we offer it to Calgary for Hamilton and their 1st, which may be around 12-15. You have Hamilton and quite possibly Foote or Hague will be there for the acquired 1st. Maybe a team like CHI, MIN, PIT OR MTL pays a 1st for Vanek to maybe put them over the top, and maybe there's someone good between 23 and 30 as well. That's where I think you have to sell  a few of your vets, and trade your 1st if it's in the top 5. You may be able to trade it if it's a top 10 as well, especially if someone is left on the board that Calgary or Winnipeg may really want.

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54 minutes ago, kliq said:

With that type of thinking this team is going nowhere. If an elite d-man comes your way you take him.

Also, by the time he would be due for a big contract, Howard, Green, Vanek, Miller, Ott,and Smith will all be gone. Plus I would also bet Kronwall will be on LTIR ala Franzen come two years from now. Cap space will not be an issue. Look at what the Leafs did with Phenuef, Kessel and Clarkson, you dump a few contracts and you are fine.

If an elite Dman was available then yes you make a deal. Trouba is not elite. He is a RHed version of DD, nothing more. The stats don't lie. He is a good second pair guy, not elite.

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17 minutes ago, Richdg said:

If an elite Dman was available then yes you make a deal. Trouba is not elite. He is a RHed version of DD, nothing more. The stats don't lie. He is a good second pair guy, not elite.

Trouba is 22 years, DD is 26, for a D-man that is a HUGE difference. You cannot compare the two, very very weak argument on your part.

Please do not twist my argument around to fit your narrative. What I said was that Trouba has the POTENTIAL to be elite, I never once said he is currently elite. I cant remember anyone ever saying that DD had the potential to be elite, not even close to the same situation.

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2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

If we have an opportunity to get Trouba or Hamilton, you deal the pick. Like someone said, by time their due for a huge raise, we'll have plenty of cap space.

We haven't touched on when they sign Tavares after next season... :ninja:

You know what's easier then drafting a stud top 5? Signing one via UFA lol. The Wings definitely need to make a run for Tavares. Having Tavares, Larkin, and AA down the middle would be absolutely amazing and in a few years possibly the best 1-2-3 punch in the NHL. With that being said, I dont see it happening.

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Tavares is a C. he and neilsson were not linemates. Tavares had Okposso and often Martin on his wings. He is from Mississauga (Toronto). Now who is the more likely? The very good on the rise ML or the still in decline RW?

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46 minutes ago, kliq said:

Trouba is 22 years, DD is 26, for a D-man that is a HUGE difference. You cannot compare the two, very very weak argument on your part.

Please do not twist my argument around to fit your narrative. What I said was that Trouba has the POTENTIAL to be elite, I never once said he is currently elite. I cant remember anyone ever saying that DD had the potential to be elite, not even close to the same situation.

Not really. Both are still young and have room for improvement. neither one is max'd out yet. Neither one is cheap either. Trouba's next deal will be in the 4.5 to 5 million range. This is where his contract could become an issue. Not that we don't have the cap but is he going to be worth that type of money in 1.5 years?

Right now we can trade our 1st for trouba and hope he becomes elite OR keep our pick draft Foote and hope he becomes elite. Trouba is 4 years older and cost 3 x as much money. Now if we had trouba and he is paired with DD that is a pretty good second pair. But as mentioned above, why are doing either or? Lets get/keep both. Having a BL group of:

Samuelsson (2018)-Foote (2017)

DD-Trouba

Cholowski-Sproul

Oullett-Marchenko

This would be very very good.

Do we have the parts to make it happen? yes. Without using our 1st round pick we can do it. I would next expect it until the summer however when teams are going to be more willing to make moves to protect value due to the expansion draft.

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3 hours ago, Richdg said:

Not really. Both are still young and have room for improvement. neither one is max'd out yet. Neither one is cheap either. Trouba's next deal will be in the 4.5 to 5 million range. This is where his contract could become an issue. Not that we don't have the cap but is he going to be worth that type of money in 1.5 years?

Right now we can trade our 1st for trouba and hope he becomes elite OR keep our pick draft Foote and hope he becomes elite. Trouba is 4 years older and cost 3 x as much money. Now if we had trouba and he is paired with DD that is a pretty good second pair. But as mentioned above, why are doing either or? Lets get/keep both. Having a BL group of:

Samuelsson (2018)-Foote (2017)

DD-Trouba

Cholowski-Sproul

Oullett-Marchenko

This would be very very good.

Do we have the parts to make it happen? yes. Without using our 1st round pick we can do it. I would next expect it until the summer however when teams are going to be more willing to make moves to protect value due to the expansion draft.

Any legitimate scout would tell you that the difference between a 22 year old defenseman and a 26 year old defenseman is enormous as defenseman take a lot longer to develop then forwards. Your financial argument makes sense IF the probability of Foote becoming a 1A guy is equal to Trouba's, which I believe it is not. Given the amount of defenseman that are busts/letdowns that go in the top 10 every year, the chances of Foote being another one IMO are pretty high. This is not an indictment on Foote, the kid very well may become a star, but I do not believe the chances are as high as they are with Trouba. You can compare Trouba to DD all you want, but just repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

As far as acquiring both, sure I am open to that but from what I have read Winnipeg does not want to trade Trouba for anyone except Larkin plus which Holland is not willing to do, so moot point.

Samuelsson.....way too early to start talking about the 2018 draft.

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16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Too early to talk about the 2018 draft? Never! Although I'm very surprised he said Samuelsson and not the extremely hyped "Lil' Svech" aka Andrei Svechnikov... Richdg already has the '19, '20, '21 and '22 drafts planned out...

There are a few analyst saying that the 2018 draft may be the deepest draft since 2003(?). If we sell I hope we can load up on picks through that draft. I am always jealous when teams like Buffalo, or Winnipeg have 3 first round picks. 

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On 1/10/2017 at 6:59 AM, krsmith17 said:

Too early to talk about the 2018 draft? Never! Although I'm very surprised he said Samuelsson and not the extremely hyped "Lil' Svech" aka Andrei Svechnikov... Richdg already has the '19, '20, '21 and '22 drafts planned out...

Not that far my friend. Just this year and a few names the next 2 years.

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