Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said: There are not a lot, if any, that probably make anyone's team this coming season outside of Patrick, Hischier, and perhaps Vilardi. Even that is suspect. When I hear it's a "weak draft" to me that means no generational players and very few players that are ready to jump into NHL action right away. I think either way we look at it the player we draft sees one more year of amateur hockey before coming to the show unless we get lucky in the lottery. That may be true, but looking at our situation, I wouldn't be surprised to see our pick in the lineup if it's a forward. We currently have 10 forwards signed, plus AA and Tatar as RFAs. That leaves two forward spots to fill, and probably not a lot of cap space to do it with, plus the possibility of losing a forward in the expansion draft. Our top prospects right now are Svechnikov, Smith, and Bertuzzi. I don't think that's a very high bar for a new kid to get over. I'm not actually expecting our pick to make the roster, but I'm not dismissing the possibility either. Even if we end up late in the top 10 and take a kid who wouldn't normally be considered ready. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 18 hours ago, LeftWinger said: I was just making a couple of statements, nothing I said was directed toward you in any way. But to agree with you, if I'm drafting the best player available, I'm not taking an NA player just because and skipping that best player available. For example, if when we draft and the only player touted top 5 left is say Liljegren, I am not taking Jim Smith just because he is NA. I am taking Liljegren. BUT, IMO if I had a choice of Hicshier and Vilardi, I'd chose Vilardi, but if Hischier was the only top center left, I am not taking Tom Jones because he was born in Western Canada. A Euro can and has dominated the NHL, no question. Sure, ok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 40 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Sure, ok You have an argument with that other guy. If I would've directed toward you personally, I would've quoted you. When I went back and read what you told me you wrote, we were basically saying the same thing about quantity and quality. So, not sure why you re-directed your anger towards me. But if you want to think it's everyone vs. You, that's on you. To be honest there were a few users going back and forth, so I really didn't know who took which stance on nationality. I agree that a large quantity of NA players are better, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for a few Eurostars turn out better than most NA's. Chill out Gordie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 1 hour ago, LeftWinger said: You have an argument with that other guy. If I would've directed toward you personally, I would've quoted you. When I went back and read what you told me you wrote, we were basically saying the same thing about quantity and quality. So, not sure why you re-directed your anger towards me. But if you want to think it's everyone vs. You, that's on you. To be honest there were a few users going back and forth, so I really didn't know who took which stance on nationality. I agree that a large quantity of NA players are better, but it's not out of the realm of possibility for a few Eurostars turn out better than most NA's. Chill out Gordie. You posted right after me, disagreeing with the exact point I made. Sure seemed directed at me. If it wasnt, then ok, sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 26, 2017 40 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: You posted right after me, disagreeing with the exact point I made. Sure seemed directed at me. If it wasnt, then ok, sure. That's what the quote button is for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted March 27, 2017 21 hours ago, LeftWinger said: That's what the quote button is for. Fair enough. I don't think this needs to be talked about any more. Cheers. 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 28, 2017 Maybe we'll still get a #10ish... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 28, 2017 Cody Glass is quickly emerging as one of my top draft choices. I hope we finish this season strong and get lucky in the lottery to get Patrick or Vilardi, but if we pick around 7, I'd be stoked to get Glass or Tippett. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 28, 2017 I really liked the idea of dealing the #7 to St. LOUIS for the 18th and 31st. That plays right into my wish for Tippett and Hague. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 28, 2017 57 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: I really liked the idea of dealing the #7 to St. LOUIS for the 18th and 31st. That plays right into my wish for Tippett and Hague. I know Tippett has fallen a bit in some mock drafts, but I'd be absolutely shocked if he's still there at 18. It's not even a guarantee that Hague would be there at 31. I think we should keep our pick, and hope we end up getting lucky in the lottery... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 28, 2017 I'd take Tippett at #7 honestly. Then try to trade an NHL player and a 3rd to get Hague. I honestly believe those two are game changers. But, it is just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyukian-Deke 722 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 Well we pretty much locked ourselves out of the top 5. Unless something drastic happens. I would almost rather us trade back for a 2018 first rounder where the draft will be much deeper. But depends where we end up. Tippett would fill a need of a sniper type player that puts everything he can on net. Similar to what we thought we had with Pulks but Tippett is more than just a great shot, which turned out to be all the Pulks had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said: Well we pretty much locked ourselves out of the top 5. Unless something drastic happens. I would almost rather us trade back for a 2018 first rounder where the draft will be much deeper. But depends where we end up. Tippett would fill a need of a sniper type player that puts everything he can on net. Similar to what we thought we had with Pulks but Tippett is more than just a great shot, which turned out to be all the Pulks had. Nothing drastic needs to happen, we just need to get lucky in the draft lottery, which is very possible. I just ran the simulator 10 times, and we got 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th twice, 7th three times, 8th and 9th... We can still luck out and get a top 3-5 pick, but we could also have bad luck and fall back to 8-10... That's why "tanking" is such a flawed method. In saying that, I'd be totally fine if the only remaining games we win are against the Leafs and Devils. The problem with trading our 1st in this years draft to a team for their 1st in next years draft, is who do you trade it with? With the parity of this league, you never know where a team will finish a year from now. Let's just say we trade our 7th overall this season to one of the bottom feeders this year. Any of the teams at the bottom of the standings this season, could potentially make the playoffs next season. So now, you've traded a 7th overall in a "weak draft", for a 17th overall in a "strong draft". Not a gamble I'd be willing to take... I say keep the pick and take the best player available. Hopefully we get lucky, move up a few spots and take Vilardi... OR trade the pick for a top pair defenseman... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BringBack19 110 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 50 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Nothing drastic needs to happen, we just need to get lucky in the draft lottery, which is very possible. I just ran the simulator 10 times, and we got 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th twice, 7th three times, 8th and 9th... We can still luck out and get a top 3-5 pick, but we could also have bad luck and fall back to 8-10... That's why "tanking" is such a flawed method. In saying that, I'd be totally fine if the only remaining games we win are against the Leafs and Devils. The problem with trading our 1st in this years draft to a team for their 1st in next years draft, is who do you trade it with? With the parity of this league, you never know where a team will finish a year from now. Let's just say we trade our 7th overall this season to one of the bottom feeders this year. Any of the teams at the bottom of the standings this season, could potentially make the playoffs next season. So now, you've traded a 7th overall in a "weak draft", for a 17th overall in a "strong draft". Not a gamble I'd be willing to take... I say keep the pick and take the best player available. Hopefully we get lucky, move up a few spots and take Vilardi... OR trade the pick for a top pair defenseman... Wouldn't that be nearly the same quality of player? Plus that would be worst case scenario, so the risk level of say trading with Phoenix is very low. If the right opportunity presented itself for a 2018 first, and 2017 2nd I would do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, BringBack19 said: Wouldn't that be nearly the same quality of player? Plus that would be worst case scenario, so the risk level of say trading with Phoenix is very low. If the right opportunity presented itself for a 2018 first, and 2017 2nd I would do it. No, I don't believe it is. I said "weak" and "strong" in quotations because that's been the narrative around here. I don't believe that to be 100% accurate though. This year we are seeing a weaker draft, in the sense that none of the top 3 players are McDavid / Matthews level elite, but I don't believe the rest of the draft differs much from any other draft class. Next year there will be a couple elite players (Svechnikov and Dahlin) available at the top, but it's not like every player outside the top 3 are expected to be any better than this year or any other for that matter. I think 7th overall this year is very similar to 7th overall next year, and much better than 17th next year. There will still be some very good players available around the 7 hole, so if that's where we end up, I say make the pick or trade it for immediate help. Why prolong the rebuild even further by trading a top pick, in hopes that we get a player just as good, but a year further away from making the NHL the following year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 Again, my dream draft in the first 2 rounds would be Tippett and Hague. I'd take Tippett with my first pick and if I had to trade up to get Hague, I'm in. Disclaimer: I am fully prepared to be greatly disappointed come draft day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 1 hour ago, LeftWinger said: Again, my dream draft in the first 2 rounds would be Tippett and Hague. I'd take Tippett with my first pick and if I had to trade up to get Hague, I'm in. Disclaimer: I am fully prepared to be greatly disappointed come draft day. This is why I generally don't like to start picking favorites before the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 But, Holland did take Mantha and Larkin which were both guys I wanted before the draft(s) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: But, Holland did take Mantha and Larkin which were both guys I wanted before the draft(s) Yeah both Mantha and Larkin seemed to be heavily favored by most Wings fans before the draft, and we got both. Svechnikov and Cholowski on the other hand, I did not see coming at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 23 hours ago, LeftWinger said: I really liked the idea of dealing the #7 to St. LOUIS for the 18th and 31st. That plays right into my wish for Tippett and Hague. 18th and 31st isn't near enough to give up the 7th. Giving up a top 10 pick, you should get that, plus a high-end prospect or young player, plus a 1st (and maybe a 2nd) next year. 6 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Nothing drastic needs to happen, we just need to get lucky in the draft lottery, which is very possible. I just ran the simulator 10 times, and we got 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th twice, 7th three times, 8th and 9th... I say keep the pick and take the best player available. Hopefully we get lucky, move up a few spots and take Vilardi... OR trade the pick for a top pair defenseman... You must've done something wrong; we can't get 5th or 6th. According to Tankathon, we have about a 21% chance at a top 3, so not that bad. Too lazy to work out the other odds, but probably about 60-70% of 7th or 8th, 10ish% for 9th, and very low chance for 10th. If we end up 7 or 8, I'm thinking most of the top centers will be gone and we'll take Liljegren or Makar. I could live with that, but if one of Vilardi, Rasmussen, or Glass was still available I'd prefer that. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Buppy said: You must've done something wrong; we can't get 5th or 6th. According to Tankathon, we have about a 21% chance at a top 3, so not that bad. Too lazy to work out the other odds, but probably about 60-70% of 7th or 8th, 10ish% for 9th, and very low chance for 10th. If we end up 7 or 8, I'm thinking most of the top centers will be gone and we'll take Liljegren or Makar. I could live with that, but if one of Vilardi, Rasmussen, or Glass was still available I'd prefer that. I definitely did something wrong but I have no idea what... I did it on my phone earlier and could have sworn that's what the results indicated. Just ran it another 20+ times on the computer, and you're right, it seems we can't pick 4th, 5th or 6th... Is that right? What's the reason for that though? EDIT: Never mind. I'm assuming it has to do with us currently in the 6th spot, add in Vegas, puts us at 7. So we can either win the lottery (top 3 picks), remain in the 7 spot, or drop back if other teams behind us move up... Is that correct?... Edited March 29, 2017 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) If all the top centers are gone by #7 and Holland isn't really feeling Tippett, there's always the original plan to trade our 1st to Winnipeg for Trouba. They'd have 2 in the top 10 and we'd have Trouba. Maybe we could coax their 2nd out of them as well. Then maybe Hague will be there in the early 2nd. Wouldn't it be sweet if we traded #7 for Trouba and their 2nd and we were able to get Tippett and Hague in the early 2nd!?! I'd be in heaven! Smack! Wake up, you're dreaming! Edited March 29, 2017 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted March 30, 2017 4 hours ago, LeftWinger said: If all the top centers are gone by #7 and Holland isn't really feeling Tippett, there's always the original plan to trade our 1st to Winnipeg for Trouba. They'd have 2 in the top 10 and we'd have Trouba. Maybe we could coax their 2nd out of them as well. Then maybe Hague will be there in the early 2nd. Wouldn't it be sweet if we traded #7 for Trouba and their 2nd and we were able to get Tippett and Hague in the early 2nd!?! I'd be in heaven! Smack! Wake up, you're dreaming! I doubt a pick in the 7-10 range would mean much to Winnipeg, as they're stacked with really good young players and this is a weak draft. I have to assume they would want Larkin/Mantha/Athanasiou, plus the pick. If our pick is in the top two or three...then it might be a different story. Maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 30, 2017 Yeah, I think Trouba is a pipe dream at this point. The only way I see him coming here is as a UFA, and even that may be a long shot. I'd prefer to go after a left handed top pair guy to pair with Green. Right handed defensemen used to be a rarity for us, but now we have Green, Jensen, Sproul, Russo, Hronek, Saarijarvi, Sambrook and McIlrath. We may need to replace Green a year from now, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we re-signed him next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 30, 2017 I could still go for Fowler. Maybe our first for him and their first? Meh....it's all gonna happen soon! Who knows what we'll do! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
