2017 Draft

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Unless they end up flopping.

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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Now you're just flaming.

Both of those players would tremendously help the future of this team. Far better than Liljegren and Pettersson...

We need to take the best talent available. And these two will fit our more European style better.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We need to take the best talent available. And these two will fit our more European style better.

But our more European style has gotten us nowhere...we have gotten worse and worse and worse every year. Tippett and Hague will fit the new style better, along with the likes of Larkin, Mantha, AA, Jensen, Bertuzzi. et al.  The time for change has come. Nyquist and Tatar along with Svech, Saarijarvi (teammate of Tippett and Hague) and Holmstrom will more than fill in the need for style you speak of, but your entire team cannot be that style. Not in the NHL that's for sure.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

4 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Unless they end up flopping.

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Anybody can end up flopping, there are no for sures, ever.  We could land #1, draft Patrick and his sports hernia could forever hamper him. Just from watching teams left in the playoffs, they have a nice mix of NA's and Euro's, not all one lopsided. Adding players like Tippett and Hague balances the type of players we have in the system. Drafting more and more European style players is not going to lift this team closer to a Cup...make the playoffs, sure, maybe, but not a Cup. We need balance, Tippett is a prototypical power forward and Hague is a bruising D that can get you some points as well.

I like what I read about Liljegren, but its not like a D is all we need. IMO, if we're somewhere around 10, Tippett is the way to go. If he's not already taken...

[sputman 1,268]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

From this video Tippett reminds me of LA Kings center Jeff Carter.

Reminds me of Stamkos.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Players like AA Mantha Larkin and G. Smith?

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[Buppy 1,720]

33 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Anybody can end up flopping, there are no for sures, ever.  We could land #1, draft Patrick and his sports hernia could forever hamper him. Just from watching teams left in the playoffs, they have a nice mix of NA's and Euro's, not all one lopsided. Adding players like Tippett and Hague balances the type of players we have in the system. Drafting more and more European style players is not going to lift this team closer to a Cup...make the playoffs, sure, maybe, but not a Cup. We need balance, Tippett is a prototypical power forward and Hague is a bruising D that can get you some points as well.

I like what I read about Liljegren, but its not like a D is all we need. IMO, if we're somewhere around 10, Tippett is the way to go. If he's not already taken...

You can say the same for all the teams out of the playoffs as well.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

51 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

But our more European style has gotten us nowhere...we have gotten worse and worse and worse every year. Tippett and Hague will fit the new style better, along with the likes of Larkin, Mantha, AA, Jensen, Bertuzzi. et al.  The time for change has come. Nyquist and Tatar along with Svech, Saarijarvi (teammate of Tippett and Hague) and Holmstrom will more than fill in the need for style you speak of, but your entire team cannot be that style. Not in the NHL that's for sure.

Larkin, AA, Mantha, Smith, Sambrook, Cholowski, Coreau, Jensen, Ouellet, Sproul, Bertuzzi, Callahan, Russo, Turgeon

All North American. All young promising players. Some of which have already shown they could be core players.

Hronek, Saarijarvi, Holmstrom, Mrazek, Nosek, Svechnikov

All European. All young promising players. Only Mrazek has shown he may be a core player at this point.

 

That's a handful of European players going forward.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Anybody can end up flopping, there are no for sures, ever.  We could land #1, draft Patrick and his sports hernia could forever hamper him. Just from watching teams left in the playoffs, they have a nice mix of NA's and Euro's, not all one lopsided. Adding players like Tippett and Hague balances the type of players we have in the system. Drafting more and more European style players is not going to lift this team closer to a Cup...make the playoffs, sure, maybe, but not a Cup. We need balance, Tippett is a prototypical power forward and Hague is a bruising D that can get you some points as well.
I like what I read about Liljegren, but its not like a D is all we need. IMO, if we're somewhere around 10, Tippett is the way to go. If he's not already taken...

We need big North Americans is the reason they drafted Primeau instead of Jagr

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[Buppy 1,720]

25 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

We need big North Americans is the reason they drafted Primeau instead of Jagr

No it wasn't. We drafted Primeau because it was 1990; almost 3 decades before Jagr became the #2 all-time scorer, and I'm guessing at least 3 centuries before humans will invent a way to perfectly predict the future. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

We gave a good mix of nationalities, but mostly European style players, with very little power players. Tippett and Hague will make this team harder to beat, Liljegren and Pettersson will do nothing of that sort. They may be skilled players, but not going to make it harder to play against. I'm tired of the same old record. It doesn't work anymore...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

We gave a good mix of nationalities, but mostly European style players, with very little power players. Tippett and Hague will make this team harder to beat, Liljegren and Pettersson will do nothing of that sort. They may be skilled players, but not going to make it harder to play against. I'm tired of the same old record. It doesn't work anymore...

What is a European style player?

What is a power player?

Harder to play against? Then why wouldn't just draft grinders in the late rounds? In the top end of the draft you're looking for elite scoring talent.

And the league is moving towards speed, and away from physicality, that's pretty obvious.

[sputman 1,268]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And the league is moving towards speed, and away from physicality, that's pretty obvious.

I don't know. I watched some of the TO v Washington series and they were barbaric.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

59 minutes ago, sputman said:

I don't know. I watched some of the TO v Washington series and they were barbaric.

See, it's sad that we are at the point where we consider that series "barbaric". If this was 1996 that series would be considered pretty standard.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What is a European style player?

What is a power player?

Harder to play against? Then why wouldn't just draft grinders in the late rounds? In the top end of the draft you're looking for elite scoring talent.

And the league is moving towards speed, and away from physicality, that's pretty obvious.

 

[Buppy 1,720]

Funny thing is Tippett is very much a skill player. Might have some gritty elements, but his speed, shot, and ability to find open areas are much more important. Reminds me of Iginla in a way. Sure, maybe he's tough, but it's all the other parts of his game that make him good.

I don't think Tippett would be a bad pick at all. Wouldn't be my choice at 7, or maybe top 10 at all, but I wouldn't hate it either. He's got a lot going for him.

I don't think we need goal scorers as much as we need goal creators. Not play-makers, per se, but guys who can generate offense. Starting with retrieving pucks in our own end, breaking out and transitioning into solid offensive zone possession, and making good plays whether it be a shot or setting up a teammate. I don't think Tippett fills that as well as MIttelstadt or Glass. Also think Liljegren, Valimaki, and Makar would be more valuable to us. I'd put Tippett a hair behind Suzuki, and a hair ahead of Pettersson, Tolvanen, Heiskanen and Foote.

Not too impressed with what I've seen on Hague. OK for a second rounder, but he'll probably go late 1st.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

We gave a good mix of nationalities, but mostly European style players, with very little power players. Tippett and Hague will make this team harder to beat, Liljegren and Pettersson will do nothing of that sort. They may be skilled players, but not going to make it harder to play against. I'm tired of the same old record. It doesn't work anymore...

Being "hard to play against" (which I guess we're defining as "North American," because every NHLer knows that Erik Karlsson = easy to play against) is something we can gnash our teeth over when we've found ourselves some top-tier talent and we feel we're within striking range of a Cup and we're looking for any and every competitive advantage we can give ourselves. The focus, right now, has to be on getting that top-tier talent.

I don't care about nationality. At this point, I barely even care about players' "playing style." I just want a core of two or three elite players. I do absolutely want us to forecheck more aggressively and do a better job of clearing people out of our kitchen and whatnot. That stuff's fundamentally important. But if you don't have top-tier talent, you're not winning the Cup.

Compare the best players on our 2008 team to the best players on our 2017 team. We don't have that kind of talent at the top of our depth chart right now, and that's far and away the biggest reason why the Detroit Red Wings can't have nice things these days.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 

So you've got nothing. Ok.

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Being "hard to play against" (which I guess we're defining as "North American," because every NHLer knows that Erik Karlsson = easy to play against) is something we can gnash our teeth over when we've found ourselves some top-tier talent and we feel we're within striking range of a Cup and we're looking for any and every competitive advantage we can give ourselves. The focus, right now, has to be on getting that top-tier talent.

I don't care about nationality. At this point, I barely even care about players' "playing style." I just want a core of two or three elite players. I do absolutely want us to forecheck more aggressively and do a better job of clearing people out of our kitchen and whatnot. That stuff's fundamentally important. But if you don't have top-tier talent, you're not winning the Cup.

Compare the best players on our 2008 team to the best players on our 2017 team. We don't have that kind of talent at the top of our depth chart right now, and that's far and away the biggest reason why the Detroit Red Wings can't have nice things these days.

Nationality shouldnt matter at all. If we had a team of all Canadians or all Swedes, it wouldnt matter to me. Just win. 

[sputman 1,268]

9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

See, it's sad that we are at the point where we consider that series "barbaric". If this was 1996 that series would be considered pretty standard.

Good point! 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So you've got nothing. Ok.

Nationality shouldnt matter at all. If we had a team of all Canadians or all Swedes, it wouldnt matter to me. Just win. 

I'm just perplexed that you don't know what a European style player is compared to a power type player...but OK, if you're that naive or just trying to bait, here's your examples:

Power: Tippett, Hague, Shanahan,Backes

Euro-style: Liljegren, Patterson, Nyquist, Tatar. 

It's just my opinion we lack the power type player. Both at fwd and D. Abby and Ericsson aren't the answer. Adding more Euro type players isn't either. I'm not saying switch to a bunch of bottom 6 grinders either. I like what our core is looking like, but imo, adding a couple of more power style players that are top 6 and top 4 to that core and we get closer to that perfect balance that is needed to win a Cup.

Granted, if this 6'5" kid in Sweden plays to his size and can net 25-30? That's good too. I'm a fan of Hedman as well.

The perception is I don't like Swedes. Wrong. I'm just tired of the soft European style player that we always seem to get. I hate when I'm right about them, but trust me, I love when I'm wrong.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Talking of Swedes I see Mr Brunnstrom has retired from hockey.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

So what was Homer? Kronwall? Ulf Samuelsson? Why call it "power vs European" instead of "power vs finesse?"

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[krsmith17 7,191]

Soft Euro's like Konstantinov, Emelin and Gudas.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Soft Euro's like Konstantinov, Emelin and Gudas.

so soft

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm just perplexed that you don't know what a European style player is compared to a power type player...but OK, if you're that naive or just trying to bait, here's your examples:

Power: Tippett, Hague, Shanahan,Backes

Euro-style: Liljegren, Patterson, Nyquist, Tatar. 

It's just my opinion we lack the power type player. Both at fwd and D. Abby and Ericsson aren't the answer. Adding more Euro type players isn't either. I'm not saying switch to a bunch of bottom 6 grinders either. I like what our core is looking like, but imo, adding a couple of more power style players that are top 6 and top 4 to that core and we get closer to that perfect balance that is needed to win a Cup.

Granted, if this 6'5" kid in Sweden plays to his size and can net 25-30? That's good too. I'm a fan of Hedman as well.

The perception is I don't like Swedes. Wrong. I'm just tired of the soft European style player that we always seem to get. I hate when I'm right about them, but trust me, I love when I'm wrong.

A power player sound like someone who plays on the power play lol

You want more physicality in the top half of the roster. Cool. What in the world does that have to do with a players nationality?