2017 Draft

[Jacksoni 418]

My stance on our pick this year is quite simple. Unless we trade to move up in the draft to try to pick someone specific, I believe that with our highest pick we should choose the best player available. Should probably add what management believes is the best player available, it's a qualified conjecture after all.

Regardless of position. Yes, that includes goalies but not linesmen or coaches, despite having a 3rd round pick from trading a coach.

By the way, the draft lottery is April 29th, this saturday for the casual reader.

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Jacksoni

[LeftWinger 4,936]

3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

So what was Homer? Kronwall? Ulf Samuelsson? Why call it "power vs European" instead of "power vs finesse?"

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I can go with that, it does sound much better. Power vs. finesse. 

..and that's where I was saying it wrong. It has nothing to do with nationality, I want a nice balance of Power and Finesse.  I just think Tippett and Hague fit the bill of what we need now to better balance our team.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 4/25/2017 at 11:37 AM, LeftWinger said:

But our more European style has gotten us nowhere...we have gotten worse and worse and worse every year. Tippett and Hague will fit the new style better, along with the likes of Larkin, Mantha, AA, Jensen, Bertuzzi. et al.  The time for change has come. Nyquist and Tatar along with Svech, Saarijarvi (teammate of Tippett and Hague) and Holmstrom will more than fill in the need for style you speak of, but your entire team cannot be that style. Not in the NHL that's for sure.

 

On 4/25/2017 at 11:44 AM, LeftWinger said:

Anybody can end up flopping, there are no for sures, ever.  We could land #1, draft Patrick and his sports hernia could forever hamper him. Just from watching teams left in the playoffs, they have a nice mix of NA's and Euro's, not all one lopsided. Adding players like Tippett and Hague balances the type of players we have in the system. Drafting more and more European style players is not going to lift this team closer to a Cup...make the playoffs, sure, maybe, but not a Cup. We need balance, Tippett is a prototypical power forward and Hague is a bruising D that can get you some points as well.

I like what I read about Liljegren, but its not like a D is all we need. IMO, if we're somewhere around 10, Tippett is the way to go. If he's not already taken...

 

7 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm just perplexed that you don't know what a European style player is compared to a power type player...but OK, if you're that naive or just trying to bait, here's your examples:

Power: Tippett, Hague, Shanahan,Backes

Euro-style: Liljegren, Patterson, Nyquist, Tatar. 

It's just my opinion we lack the power type player. Both at fwd and D. Abby and Ericsson aren't the answer. Adding more Euro type players isn't either. I'm not saying switch to a bunch of bottom 6 grinders either. I like what our core is looking like, but imo, adding a couple of more power style players that are top 6 and top 4 to that core and we get closer to that perfect balance that is needed to win a Cup.

Granted, if this 6'5" kid in Sweden plays to his size and can net 25-30? That's good too. I'm a fan of Hedman as well.

The perception is I don't like Swedes. Wrong. I'm just tired of the soft European style player that we always seem to get. I hate when I'm right about them, but trust me, I love when I'm wrong.

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41 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I can go with that, it does sound much better. Power vs. finesse. 

..and that's where I was saying it wrong. It has nothing to do with nationality, I want a nice balance of Power and Finesse.  I just think Tippett and Hague fit the bill of what we need now to better balance our team.

I mean I get it, you want more physical style players, I understand that.

But if that has nothing to do with nationality, why do you openly equate it with nationality so very often?

[LeftWinger 4,936]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

 

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I mean I get it, you want more physical style players, I understand that.

But if that has nothing to do with nationality, why do you openly equate it with nationality so very often?

So, you just ignored the first part of the post and then went and quoted older ones where I said European just to try to troll me. Re-read the last post you quoted...I agreed finesse sounded much better and admitted I was saying it wrong, and agreed with you that it doesn't matter nationality, I want more power over finesse. Before Dickie used the word finesse, that's what I was describing as European. Again, I said finesse was more what I meant and I was saying it wrong. But to defend my use of European, I used the word style with it. European Style, not specifically being from Europe. But finesse is more what I was referring to. Every last quote you put up says European STYLE.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

The Red Wings didn't want a Czech player...This fella known as Petr Klima sorta ruined it back then.

Or Primeau was the third ranked prospect, and it was absolutely reasonable and rational to think he would be the better player. 

The idea that anyone knew in 1990 that Jagr would be what he ended up being, or even just better than Primeau, but ignored that because some other unrelated Czech player had had a drinking problem is such a load of bulls*** that just reading it fertilized my garden. 

His nationality may have been a small factor, though not really because of some Klima-inspired anti-Czech sentiment. More likely that he may have told teams other than Pittsburgh that he wouldn't come to the NHL.

20 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

So, you just ignored the first part of the post and then went and quoted older ones where I said European just to try to troll me. Re-read the last post you quoted...I agreed finesse sounded much better and admitted I was saying it wrong, and agreed with you that it doesn't matter nationality, I want more power over finesse. Before Dickie used the word finesse, that's what I was describing as European. Again, I said finesse was more what I meant and I was saying it wrong. But to defend my use of European, I used the word style with it. European Style, not specifically being from Europe. But finesse is more what I was referring to. Every last quote you put up says European STYLE.

We all know that for you, European means "soft". Don't try to hide it, it's part of your character.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

23 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Or Primeau was the third ranked prospect, and it was absolutely reasonable and rational to think he would be the better player. 

The idea that anyone knew in 1990 that Jagr would be what he ended up being, or even just better than Primeau, but ignored that because some other unrelated Czech player had had a drinking problem is such a load of bulls*** that just reading it fertilized my garden. 

His nationality may have been a small factor, though not really because of some Klima-inspired anti-Czech sentiment. More likely that he may have told teams other than Pittsburgh that he wouldn't come to the NHL.

We all know that for you, European means "soft". Don't try to hide it, it's part of your character.

European style and finesse usually means soft, I agree. Did you miss the part where I said I like Hedman? Of course, because it doesn't work into the agenda. I prefer tougher players to soft ones. Most Europeans are finesse but there are some that are tougher. It's not my fault that I prefer it that way and that European fit more into the finesse category. But absolutely there are north American players that line up there as well.

I would take Victor Hedman over kyle quincey all day long...I can remember back when Hedman was drafted, we were dealing with Hudler I think either holding out as an rfa or getting ready to come back from the khl, I was talking about trading Hudler, Kronwall and a pick for the 2nd pick overall to draft Hedman. So even back then I liked him, even before he turned out they way he did...

Edited April 27, 2017 by LeftWinger

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2017-04-25 at 6:07 PM, Buppy said:

No it wasn't. We drafted Primeau because it was 1990; almost 3 decades before Jagr became the #2 all-time scorer, and I'm guessing at least 3 centuries before humans will invent a way to perfectly predict the future. 

It's too bad they didn't draft some young French Canadian goalie named Martin Brodeur instead.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

19 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

It's too bad they didn't draft some young French Canadian goalie named Martin Brodeur instead.

Or a local kid named Hatcher...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

So, you just ignored the first part of the post and then went and quoted older ones where I said European just to try to troll me. Re-read the last post you quoted...I agreed finesse sounded much better and admitted I was saying it wrong, and agreed with you that it doesn't matter nationality, I want more power over finesse. Before Dickie used the word finesse, that's what I was describing as European. Again, I said finesse was more what I meant and I was saying it wrong. But to defend my use of European, I used the word style with it. European Style, not specifically being from Europe. But finesse is more what I was referring to. Every last quote you put up says European STYLE.

The point youre missing, and that I'm trying to make, is that you automatically equate being european to being soft. So youre biased towards NA players, which skews your view of who the most talented player in the draft is. There are loads of soft NA players and also some extremely physical europeans. You were already down on signing Victor E despite him being 6'5" 210 at 21 years old, arguably a player already physically dominant. But alas... european "style" in your eyes.

[Buppy 1,720]

41 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

European style and finesse usually means soft, I agree. Did you miss the part where I said I like Hedman? Of course, because it doesn't work into the agenda. I prefer tougher players to soft ones. Most Europeans are finesse but there are some that are tougher. It's not my fault that I prefer it that way and that European fit more into the finesse category. But absolutely there are north American players that line up there as well.

I would take Victor Hedman over kyle quincey all day long...I can remember back when Hedman was drafted, we were dealing with Hudler I think either holding out as an rfa or getting ready to come back from the khl, I was talking about trading Hudler, Kronwall and a pick for the 2nd pick overall to draft Hedman. So even back then I liked him, even before he turned out they way he did...

Now you just need to work on realizing that "European" doesn't actually have anything to do with what you're talking about, so you'll stop sounding like a bigot and stop ignoring players you know nothing about other than where they come from.

[chaps80 1,591]

15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Or a local kid named Hatcher...

Indeed. Although they did eventually sign him as a free agent, they only got parts of one season out of him before the cap forced a buyout, and he was near he end of his career. Plus, that blunder in Game 6 against Calgary that had him standing around like a pylon while Yelle fired the winning goal into an open net unmolested was not his best moment. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by chaps80

[LeftWinger 4,936]

47 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Now you just need to work on realizing that "European" doesn't actually have anything to do with what you're talking about, so you'll stop sounding like a bigot and stop ignoring players you know nothing about other than where they come from.

Wow, bigot...name calling...do you deny that most European players lean towards finesse over power? Never said there wasn't finesse na's or power euros.  But it seems everytime you quote me you have an agenda. And now calling me a derogatory name...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

It's too bad they didn't draft some young French Canadian goalie named Martin Brodeur instead.

I think they did ok in net. And Brodeur benefitted a lot from playing in NJs system.

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Wow, bigot...name calling...do you deny that most European players lean towards finesse over power? Never said there wasn't finesse na's or power euros.  But it seems everytime you quote me you have an agenda. And now calling me a derogatory name...

Lots of North Americans play finesse style hockey. Gretzky, Lemieux, St. Louis, Yzerman, Murphy, Hull, Robitaille... The 97 and 98 Wings teams had a lot of European influences and you say you love them.

By calling it European you sound like a Don Cherry wannbe dinosaur.

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[chaps80 1,591]

9 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

I think they did ok in net. And Brodeur benefitted a lot from playing in NJs system.

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Lots of North Americans play finesse style hockey. Gretzky, Lemieux, St. Louis, Yzerman, Murphy, Hull, Robitaille... The 97 and 98 Wings teams had a lot of European influences and you say you love them.

By calling it European you sound like a Don Cherry wannbe dinosaur.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

I agree the Wings did fine in net, but Osgood was the only goalie the Wings drafted that contributed to Cup wins. They traded for Vernon and Hasek, and both were only around for three seasons each. Who knows, had Brodeur  been in Detroit for his entire career, having him around to build behind, they may have won more Cups. Marty probably did benefit from the system in NJ, but people say the same for Ozzie in DET. Both were great goaltenders either way though.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

50 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Wow, bigot...name calling...do you deny that most European players lean towards finesse over power? Never said there wasn't finesse na's or power euros.  But it seems everytime you quote me you have an agenda. And now calling me a derogatory name...

You sure love to play victim dont you.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

6 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

I think they did ok in net. And Brodeur benefitted a lot from playing in NJs system.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk


Lots of North Americans play finesse style hockey. Gretzky, Lemieux, St. Louis, Yzerman, Murphy, Hull, Robitaille... The 97 and 98 Wings teams had a lot of European influences and you say you love them.

By calling it European you sound like a Don Cherry wannbe dinosaur.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Exactly why I agreed with you that I shouldbe calling it finesse.

BTW, it wasn't me who said I love the 97 and 98 teams.

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You sure love to play victim dont you.

Yang, because that's what victims do, say they're wrong and change things that make them wrong. Whoa is me...

FoR the record, I'm not wrong about what I was describing, just wrong about how I described it. You did see where I said I was wrong in the word I chose right? Or are you going to ignore that fact as well?

[Andy Pred 48 337]

I hate to play teacher, but play nicely and by the way it's , woe is me .

[DickieDunn 2,571]

23 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

I hate to play teacher, but play nicely and by the way it's , woe is me .

maybe he's like Joey from Blossom, or Ted "Theodore" Logan 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Exactly why I agreed with you that I shouldbe calling it finesse.

BTW, it wasn't me who said I love the 97 and 98 teams.

Yang, because that's what victims do, say they're wrong and change things that make them wrong. Whoa is me...

FoR the record, I'm not wrong about what I was describing, just wrong about how I described it. You did see where I said I was wrong in the word I chose right? Or are you going to ignore that fact as well?

Whoa, looks like whoa is you

[Buppy 1,720]

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Wow, bigot...name calling...do you deny that most European players lean towards finesse over power? Never said there wasn't finesse na's or power euros.  But it seems everytime you quote me you have an agenda. And now calling me a derogatory name...

Sorry if I offended you.

Would you refer to power/toughness as "Black-style"? Can't really deny that most black players lean toward a tough/power game. 

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Wow....just wow.

Power Style vs. Finesse that's it...you called names and now are being racist. Yikes!

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Wow....just wow.

Power Style vs. Finesse that's it...you called names and now are being racist. Yikes!

Oh the irony lol

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Ya, ok. If what I call Finesse style or formerly European style hockey is racist, then what style should they be categorized under? How would you describe the two different styles I am referring to?

How about sand paper style and lubricating style?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

32 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ya, ok. If what I call Finesse style or formerly European style hockey is racist, then what style should they be categorized under? How would you describe the two different styles I am referring to?

How about sand paper style and lubricating style?

How about, location of birthplace does not determine how anyone plays hockey

I like Shop-Wrecker style and Milk-Drinker style.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Tippett now at #6.

http://www.tsn.ca/patrick-hischier-in-tight-race-for-no-1-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.736258

I am completely confident that if we end up 6-10 Holland will be drafting Tippett.

That is, until he doesnt....