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Richdg

Paul Woods tonight 12/29/16

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I was driving home from work listening to the game. After the game during the post game show while talking about the POG, Paul Woods said "Lots of rumors flying around Detroit about trading Mantha for a Dman".

AAARRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited by Richdg

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Yes anyone can be traded. But there is no 1 player in all of hockey that is going to make us a good team, to say nothing of becoming a SC team. We need several pieces. As a team we are terrible at O, 29th in scoring last time I looked. How is adding a 9th Dman going to improve our 29th ranked O?

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yup. I agree thats dumb rich, unless its someone that can really help us. Weve been a forward deep team for more than a few years now.

I have no issue with moving our excess forwards. But why move one of the few guys that is playing well up front? Most nights Z, Neilsson and Mantha are our 3 best F's on a team that can't score.......

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6 minutes ago, Richdg said:

Yes anyone can be traded. But there is no 1 player in all of hockey that is going to make us a good team, to say nothing of becoming a SC team. We need several pieces. As a team we are terrible at O, 29th in scoring last time I looked. How is adding a 9th Dman going to improve our 29th ranked O?

I have no issue with moving our excess forwards. But why move one of the few guys that is playing well up front? Most nights Z, Neilsson and Mantha are our 3 best F's on a team that can't score.......

Scoring isnt all about your forwards. Have to give in order to recieve. Thats how trading works. 

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21 minutes ago, Richdg said:

But why move one of the few guys that is playing well up front? Most nights Z, Neilsson and Mantha are our 3 best F's on a team that can't score.......

I dont think its that they WANT to trade Mantha. If I had to guess, I would say outside of Larkin, Mantha is the only player who has a chance to actually fetch that return. I'm sure if they could trade AA or Tatar, or Nyquist etc. for a 1A d-man they would do it in a heartbeat. 

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10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Larkin really isnt having a bad year by 20 year old standards. Id like to say sophomore slump but i think that whole notion is BS.

Dont want to trade mantha either, and i really doubt this rumor is anthing but the usual buzz. 

I agree. Kenny doesn't make big trades.

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We have finally developed a power forward who can score, but also play a 200 foot game. Now Paul Woods puts it out there, on behalf of Ken Holland no doubt, that they are interested in trading for a dman. This team wouldn't compete for a cup even if they added Brent Burns. I guess the streak is all that matters so let's trade away potentially the next Corey Perry for Cam Fowler. Whoever we trade with would have to take cap back as well. If an OEL/Burns type were involved then I may concede to trading Mantha +. Anything less would be Ken Holland doing what he's done best over the last 6 years... 

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25 minutes ago, BringBack19 said:

We have finally developed a power forward who can score, but also play a 200 foot game. Now Paul Woods puts it out there, on behalf of Ken Holland no doubt, that they are interested in trading for a dman. This team wouldn't compete for a cup even if they added Brent Burns. I guess the streak is all that matters so let's trade away potentially the next Corey Perry for Cam Fowler. Whoever we trade with would have to take cap back as well. If an OEL/Burns type were involved then I may concede to trading Mantha +. Anything less would be Ken Holland doing what he's done best over the last 6 years... 

There are maybe 5-7 Dmen in the entire NHL I would trade Mantha + for. Fowler isn't one of them. IMHO if we were to move Mantha or guys like him you need to get a true #1 Dman that is 26 or younger and signed long term. To move a guy that looks like he is begining a long and successful career for an over 30 guy in his last 5 or 6 years would be dumb. IE I would not trade Mantha of Weber. In a straight up deal I wouldn't do it. The contracts do come into play and Weber is 30. What is the chance he is still the same player 5 or 6 years from now? But his contract will live on!

Now would I move Mantha for say Ekblad? hell yes. But why would Florida do that deal? Ekblad is younger, signed for 8 more seasons, and will very soon be talked about as the top Dman in the NHL.

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6 minutes ago, Richdg said:

There are maybe 5-7 Dmen in the entire NHL I would trade Mantha + for. Fowler isn't one of them. IMHO if we were to move Mantha or guys like him you need to get a true #1 Dman that is 26 or younger and signed long term. To move a guy that looks like he is begining a long and successful career for an over 30 guy in his last 5 or 6 years would be dumb. IE I would not trade Mantha of Weber. In a straight up deal I wouldn't do it. The contracts do come into play and Weber is 30. What is the chance he is still the same player 5 or 6 years from now? But his contract will live on!

Now would I move Mantha for say Ekblad? hell yes. But why would Florida do that deal? Ekblad is younger, signed for 8 more seasons, and will very soon be talked about as the top Dman in the NHL.

Mantha is nowhere near that valuable. lol

No wonder you get so disappointed. Your expectations are just ludicrous.

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Any move they make won't be, or at least shouldn't be, focused on this year. They have zero top pair potential d-men in the system outside of the kid they drafted last summer. Dealing Mantha for D is moving a position of strength to fill a weakness. If they can do that, it's smart. But it's KFH so either he won't do it or he'll get some 30 year old rental in a desperate attempt to save The Streak.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Son of a Wing said:

That's pretty self explanatory. You're overestimating what Mantha is and his worth. 

No. I didn't say that either. mantha isn't worth what we want and I don't want what he is worth. Not now anyway. Put up a couple of 30 goal seasons and that changes.

If you read what I wrote I said mantha+ and why would Florida do that? Yes mantha might get us Fowler. But he doesn't move the bar and I like Fowler. he might get us Trouba, again not a bar mover. he will not get us Ekblad and that would improve us.

But then again we have 0 cap space thanks to all the shrewd signings that have been made..........

14 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Any move they make won't be, or at least shouldn't be, focused on this year. They have zero top pair potential d-men in the system outside of the kid they drafted last summer. Dealing Mantha for D is moving a position of strength to fill a weakness. If they can do that, it's smart. But it's KFH so either he won't do it or he'll get some 30 year old rental in a desperate attempt to save The Streak.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Currently 26th in goals scored. We have numbers at F but how much talent is there if Mantha is removed? Do we have any legit 25+ goal scorers? How many legit 20+ goal scorers do we have? 2 maybe 3.......

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Our offense isn't bad because our players are bad Rich. Our offense is bad because our coaching is bad in that regard.

Our defense is bad because our defenders are actually mediocre or even below that.

I truly wonder how much people pay attention to our team.

Offense = coaching issue

Defense = player issue

 

2 hours ago, Richdg said:

Do we have any legit 25+ goal scorers? How many legit 20+ goal scorers do we have? 2 maybe 3.......

And that's bad because....?

Having 3 players who can score 25 goals in this league is a good thing. It's not 1980 anymore lmao. 

Edited by kickazz

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Tatar and Nyquist can both score like that under the right system.  AA could be a 20 goal guy.  Larkin should be a 20 goal guy.  Svechnikov is a potential 25 goal scorer.  Fowler isn't an elite player, but he's a damn sight better than anything else they have, h's 25 years old, is the Ducks' #1 D, and his 22 points would be second on the Wings behind Zetterberg.  If Mantha brings in a guy like that, not doing it is STUPID.

 

People want KFH to make trades and bring in good young players, but don't want to give up a good player to get them.  It doesn't matter how many guys like Helm and Smith you throw into a deal, those guys won't bring anything.

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F*** that! To me, Mantha should be one of two or three guys that are untouchables, unless of course it's a massive overpayment on the other end. I'm with Rich on this one. Not like it matters though, Mantha isn't going anywhere.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Our offense isn't bad because our players are bad Rich. Our offense is bad because our coaching is bad in that regard.

Our defense is bad because our defenders are actually mediocre or even below that.

I truly wonder how much people pay attention to our team.

Offense = coaching issue

Defense = player issue

 

And that's bad because....?

Having 3 players who can score 25 goals in this league is a good thing. It's not 1980 anymore lmao. 

I agree that coaching is bad on offense, but the same can be said on defense as well. Kronwall, XO, Smith, Green, and Dekeyser are solid. XO is developing into a very good defender and possibly a solid #2. Who exactly on Offense, other than Larkin and Mantha, is worth building around? Tatar and Nyquist are just complementary pieces, and I think there nhl hot starts really skewed opinions on them. What we are seeing now is closer to who they are as players, rather than their 1.5 good years. 

KH's drafting prowess is greatly overrated, especially with regards to defense. The only way out of our defensive mess is to draft numbers at that position, not to trade arguably your best offensive piece going forward. 

I agree that we won't get an Ekblad/OEL with trading Mantha. That is why I believe trading him for a Cam Fowler type is a terrible move for the future. 

Edited by BringBack19

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28 minutes ago, BringBack19 said:

I agree that coaching is bad on offense, but the same can be said on defense as well. Kronwall, XO, Smith, Green, and Dekeyser are solid. XO is developing into a very good defender and possibly a solid #2. Who exactly on Offense, other than Larkin and Mantha, is worth building around? Tatar and Nyquist are just complementary pieces, and I think there nhl hot starts really skewed opinions on them. What we are seeing now is closer to who they are as players, rather than their 1.5 good years. 

If you think opinions on Nyquist and Tatar have been scewed hen I would say the same about Dekeyser. He hasn't been good for almost 2 years now. 

I don't think coaching is bad on defense. Defense has been bad since Lidstrom left. That's a player issue. All of Kronwall, XO, Smith, Green and Dekeyser would at best be 2nd pairing guys on good teams. And that's me being generous as I'd see most of them on a third line. Mike Green actually was a 3rd pairing guy in Washington before we signed him. 

Face it, our defensive players just aren't good no matter how genius of a coach you brought in. On the other hand our top offensive guys all have the potential to score 30 goals. Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, Abdelkader, even possibly even Mantha have been or are on pace to be 20 - 25 + goal scorers in their future. 

The problem isn't the offensive players, it's the fact that our PP has gone to s***. Without a good PP, guys like Nyquist and even Tatar to an extent will suffer. This is a special teams league now. 

There's a huge difference between the way the PP was ran under Babcock and now under Blashill, it's visually there. It's completely broken up, nobody shoots, one-timers are rarely set up the right way, players are playing in a different position on the PP than were under Babcock. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

If you think opinions on Nyquist and Tatar have been scewed hen I would say the same about Dekeyser. He hasn't been good for almost 2 years now. 

I don't think coaching is bad on defense. Defense has been bad since Lidstrom left. That's a player issue. All of Kronwall, XO, Smith, Green and Dekeyser would at best be 2nd pairing guys on good teams. And that's me being generous as I'd see most of them on a third line. Mike Green actually was a 3rd pairing guy in Washington before we signed him. 

Face it, our defensive players just aren't good no matter how genius of a coach you brought in. On the other hand our top offensive guys all have the potential to score 30 goals. Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, Abdelkader, even possibly even Mantha have been or are on pace to be 20 - 25 + goal scorers in their future. 

The problem isn't the offensive players, it's the fact that our PP has gone to s***. Without a good PP, guys like Nyquist and even Tatar to an extent will suffer. This is a special teams league now. 

There's a huge difference between the way the PP was ran under Babcock and now under Blashill, it's visually there. It's completely broken up, nobody shoots, one-timers are rarely set up the right way, players are playing in a different position on the PP than were under Babcock. 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The loss of Lidstrom has been brutal to the D core, and the loss of Datsyuk with a declining Zetterberg is equally detrimental.  I am just of the opinion when you have a top line power forward you shouldn't trade him for a 2nd tier defenseman. I feel like you would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Plus, I don't trust Holland to make the right move given the opportunity. The majority of his decisions stemming back to 2009/2010 have been brutal. 

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