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Percent chance of Playoffs or Potential High Pick

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4 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 


Because some people have accepted the reality of the cap and parity world under current rules? Which means in order to become great again each team needs to go down for a few years to (hopefully) collect a bunch of elite picks and built around them. The days of having 1 or 2 steps over everyone else in Sweden, Switzerland, Russia and Finland are over...nowadays each team has a huge scouting stuff worldwide so it's almost! impossible to find gems in the later rounds.
The Wings tried to rebuild on the fly but it didn't work ( no elite talents who can carry a franchise like the Crosbys of the world).
Why do I watch if I can? Well because I want to see who could be part of the next core and of course the last career years of Zetterberg. As a fan it's my time and I can cheer for everything I want, so the best outcome is guys playing hard but also losing because it means they tried and got closer to a top pick.

 

So when you watch a Wings game you hope they lose??

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20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So when you watch a game, you hope they win and hope they lose?

Comprehension isnt a strong point ehh. Ive said it multiple times. I dont wish them to lose. I go into every game hoping they win. If they should lose though I am not upset because its good for the future. I dont see how you read that as hoping they lose. Being ok with it and hoping are two different things.

 

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6 minutes ago, GoalieManPat said:

Comprehension isnt a strong point ehh. Ive said it multiple times. I dont wish them to lose. I go into every game hoping they win. If they should lose though I am not upset because its good for the future. I dont see how you read that as hoping they lose. Being ok with it and hoping are two different things.

 

When they win are you upset about the future?

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1 minute ago, frankgrimes said:

 


Yeah and even then outtanking the Arizona and Colorados of the world will be hard

 

Indeed.

So...'Try' to tank, and wind up picking anywhere from 3rd thru 8th, or 'try' to make the playoffs (thus extending the streak), and end up picking 8th thru 16th?

 

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Indeed.
So...'Try' to tank, and wind up picking anywhere from 3rd thru 8th, or 'try' to make the playoffs (thus extending the streak), and end up picking 8th thru 16th?
 


Try to tank and in the process get as many picks and prospects for players that aren't part of the future.

This season has been bad like very bad and given the fact that this team has the highest payroll in the NHL is just wow...so might as well for the highest possible chance at Patrick.

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Hahahah I'm calling bs. If you want them to tank and want high draft picks you are definitely not happy if they win and make the playoffs. You would rather the team FAIL this year. If you are actually happy if they win but would rather them get high picks, then you're confused in your desires, and that's ok. 

At the very least people should own up to it and admit it. Don't say thing like "oh well when I'm watching I want them to win but... but I want our future to be good and the only way is high draft".

At least Leafs fans owned up to tanking last year and openly admitted they'd rather keep losing games. Hell some would even get pissed if they won. Lots of #Mathews hashtags were thrown about by Leafs fans around this time last year. Go look it up 

Edited by kickazz

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12 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Hahahah I'm calling bs. If you want them to tank and want high draft picks you are definitely not happy if they win and make the playoffs. You would rather the team FAIL this year. If you are actually happy if they win but would rather them get high picks, then you're confused in your desires, and that's ok. 

At the very least people should own up to it and admit it. Don't say thing like "oh well when I'm watching I want them to win but... but I want our future to be good and the only way is high draft".

I dunno, I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.

My heart wants this team to win and make the playoffs and take home the Cup. My head says, "Dude, c'mon. Squeaking into the playoffs is nice and all, but the only way we're getting back to our winning ways in the future is by losing in the here and now."

I guess, in a way, I'm kind of "in the middle," not entirely sure how I feel. I'm ok with winning and I'm ok with losing.

Edited by Dabura

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Yeah I do. I do not enjoy or want to lose. Do you Frank?


Fine if that's your opinion but I don't share it nor do I have a problem with that, unlike you.

For the greater good? I'm fine with it, I've seen the rebuild on the fly model it hasn't worked so I'm ready for going Toronto

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When getting a top 5 draft pick was looking like reality for the Wings, I wasn't nearly as excited about it as I was expecting.  That's not to say I want this team to fail, but in previous years I always assumed there's a certain hopeful thrill that comes with getting a top draft pick.  That thrill has been nonexistent for me.  At this point I'd rather the Wings squeak into the playoffs and get swept than get a top 5 pick in the draft.  At least for me, the thrill of continuing the playoff streak and being able to say the last year the Joe didn't host a playoff game was in 1990 is way more exciting.  I'm also not convinced anyone from the draft will be a Red Wing savior and take us to a Stanley cup. 

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5 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 


Fine if that's your opinion but I don't share it nor do I have a problem with that, unlike you.

For the greater good? I'm fine with it, I've seen the rebuild on the fly model it hasn't worked so I'm ready for going Toronto

 

I don't have a problem, just picking your brain to help myself understand your thought process.

So do you cheer for the other team when you watch games?

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4 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

When getting a top 5 draft pick was looking like reality for the Wings, I wasn't nearly as excited about it as I was expecting.  That's not to say I want this team to fail, but in previous years I always assumed there's a certain hopeful thrill that comes with getting a top draft pick.  That thrill has been nonexistent for me.  At this point I'd rather the Wings squeak into the playoffs and get swept than get a top 5 pick in the draft.  At least for me, the thrill of continuing the playoff streak and being able to say the last year the Joe didn't host a playoff game was in 1990 is way more exciting.  I'm also not convinced anyone from the draft will be a Red Wing savior and take us to a Stanley cup. 

Draft picks - even top 5 - have always been, and will be a crap shoot as to how they turn out several years later.

This year's draft sounds somewhat weak compared to other recent years.

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30 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I dunno, I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive.

My heart wants this team to win and make the playoffs and take home the Cup. My head says, "Dude, c'mon. Squeaking into the playoffs is nice and all, but the only way we're getting back to our winning ways in the future is by losing in the here and now."

I guess, in a way, I'm kind of "in the middle," not entirely sure how I feel. I'm ok with winning and I'm ok with losing.

Exactly my point. Somewhere in the middle is being confused about what ya want. Nothing wrong with it, we've been spoiled for 25 years and it's new to us. 

I want us to make playoffs, but there are days where even I'm not sure if it matters.

I do however, find it unacceptable to see my team at the bottom of the standings. Personally.

Edited by kickazz

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I'm always supporting our team to win. I do not think tanking is a good philosophy for fans or an organization, because it reveals traits of weakness. I support the theory of trading a player or two to build draft picks/prospects to make ourselves more competitive in the future. Actually trading one of Tatar or Nyquist may do the lineup some good, and wake up a few players. Complacency is the problem with our organization not talent. Well maybe coaching too.

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I think the philosophy really depends on what everyone thinks about the current players and prospects.  I everyone thinks the team has all the right pieces (not me) and just need more experience, I think squeaking into the playoffs and losing early can still be better than missing the playoffs (certainly if missing it by finishing 9th or 10th).  The experience the young guys would get by being there in the playoffs is more valuable than many think.  Think about PIT and WSH, they had much of their personnel lined up before they were good enough to compete...needed to get in an learn how to lose before you learn how to win.   WSH hasn't been able to progress too much beyond that, but so be it.

The other way to look at it is that the team has too many holes and still needs to bring in good young players (I'm probably more in this camp).  In this scenario, squeaking into the playoffs doesn't really help the cause in the same.  That said, I don't think the draft class is that strong this year either.

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Not seeing Nolan, Liljegren was a bit of a bummer but I don't think there's any question that Nolan - if he stays healthy - would be instantly the best rookie and the guy with the best chance to become a number 1 center. It's too bad the Wings missed out on a lot of great drafts because of a streak.

Even if it's not a draft with superstars a top 5 pick is hardly something that can go wrong.

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1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

Not seeing Nolan, Liljegren was a bit of a bummer but I don't think there's any question that Nolan - if he stays healthy - would be instantly the best rookie and the guy with the best chance to become a number 1 center. It's too bad the Wings missed out on a lot of great drafts because of a streak.

Even if it's not a draft with superstars a top 5 pick is hardly something that can go wrong.

I dont think its because of the streak, the streak seems to have unfortunately become a scapegoat around here. 

IMO Mike Illitch is someone who believes that every year you ice the best team possible. It was this line of thinking that led to our last 4 Cups. The issue is that in the cap world, things are more complicated, and I don't believe for a second that Illitch would allow for a total tear down of the organization, streak or no streak. Dont fool yourself into thinking that if we miss the playoffs this year, next year we are tanking. Or if Holland is fired, next year we are tanking. Its that old school philosophy of fighting until the absolute last second and giving it everything you got. Detroit has always been a team that has been built on low end picks, UFA signings, and trades (well years ago), since the dead wings we have never been a team that has built its self on sinking to the bottom. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this philosophy, but based on the way the Wings and Tigers are run, I feel its pretty clear.

I would rather have an owner who thinks like this, then an owner who only cares about making money.

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This is complicated right now. Short term, obviously I want the wings to win, get into the playoffs and go on a run (as do most ppl here I imagine). 

Realistically, we've seen that this team isn't really capable of doing that - not much has changed really in terms of this team being better than last years version which got beaten in the first round again. 

I think most of us recognise here that in order for the Wings to be stronger long term, down the road, a year of missing the playoffs and selling off our highest priced asset (which we haven't had the luxury of doing for as long as I can remember in Vanek), could potentially add some high end talent that will enable this team to bounce right back and set us up going forward. 

Obviously I'd prefer the former, for the Wings to realise their potential and go on a run, but there's a reason this team has been out of a playoff spot for most of the season. I don't like seeing the Wings lose, or get trounced or walked over, but frankly, I'd rather see us miss one year in order for this team to come back better and stronger next year and the one after. 

For me it's about being realistic. But I enjoy watching the Wings regardless. It's Z's twilight of his career. Guys like Mantha and AA and a few of our young D guys are exciting players to watch. It gives you a glimpse of what could happen next year and beyond if the right things happen.

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Always want the win, always disappointed in the loss... still love watching the game, and understand that if they do lose, it'll probably be better in the long run... but my lizard brain keeps thinking suddenly the current roster will be magically awesome. :)

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Cause I am bored at lunch once again taking Boston as the highest game count(50) and bring everyone even and assuming regulation wins. Lets see where we is and keeping things even i.e everyone winning in regulation. I am actually shocked we are still in the hunt for 8th by 3 points.  I think our ONLY hope is 8th but get back 2 or 3 of the crap in November/December and we would still be sweating on playoffs but not as much. 

What does Kenny do if we are sitting 3 or less at the trade deadline

                Games to Match Boston    Pts

Montreal  +2 games                           67

Ottawa     +5 games                          65

Toronto    +5 games                          63

NY            +2 games                         67

NYI           +5 games                        57 

=============================================

Philly         +2 games                        56    

Buffalo      +4 games                         55     

Carolina    +3 games                         55    

Detroit      +3 games                        54

NJ             +2 games                         53

Boston      50 games played endpoint 52

Fl              +1 game                            52

Tampa       +2 games                          51

I am of the mind I am going to keep enjoying the roller coaster that this season has been. The next 4 games are basically all 4 pointers Boston, Toronto, NJ, NYI so shall see where we be then. 

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