Frans Nielsen will represent Red Wings at NHL All-Star Game

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

I think you are the one who doesn't understand it.

Someone paid 9.000 $ for your car because for him it was worth it, period. But I guess understanding such simple things is too much for some. If a house is worth a million and someone is willing to pay double that amount, then to him it's worth it, period. Others may value the house lower fine but the one who got has set his personal value at 2 mill, not hard to understand.

Go come up with your own list and for all I care don't even include captain serious in it. Can't believe  how much people like to talk something as worthless as an NHL top 100 list.

Subjective worth is useless. Objective worth is real. The cars value in the market is $6000. Don't care if you think it's worth $100k or $1 dollar.

As for the bold part, you've been the most active member talking about the top 100 list. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

 

Read the damn paragraph once more someone paid it so they are worth it, period.
 

 

Hey everyone be respectful.

So Frank you are happy with ericssons contract? He gets paid fairly for what he contributes?

[kliq 3,755]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Hey everyone be respectful.

So Frank you are happy with ericssons contract? He gets paid fairly for what he contributes?

Based on the logic of this thread, Ericsson is "worth" more then McDavid.

[kickazz 5,459]

10 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Frank, 

 

Kickazz isn't saying he's the GM who signed the player or the kid that overpaid for the mustang.  And in economic terms, you are defining "utility", not value.  For the 3 people who signed the deals, they are getting value from the utility they see in their purchase.  For the rest of us, the fair market "value" is seen as a loss in dollar amount.

 

Make sense?

You've confused him even more. That's why we speak to him in simple terms.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

You've confused him even more. That's why we speak to him in simple terms.

LOL I'm not the one who is confused or up in arms that a player who deserves it is part of a list created by the NHL. I mean, if it bothers people that much have Malkin at 4 or whatever it's just a list created for celebration reasons.

 

12 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Frank, 

 

Kickazz isn't saying he's the GM who signed the player or the kid that overpaid for the mustang.  And in economic terms, you are defining "utility", not value.  For the 3 people who signed the deals, they are getting value from the utility they see in their purchase.  For the rest of us, the fair market "value" is seen as a loss in dollar amount.

 

Make sense?

 

If you want to use economic terms than it's the net-utility to be precise. Fact is they got what they wanted and paid for it. Would a guy like Ericsson receive the same deal he signed before? For sure not probably a PTO or something like that but he has the contract and other than buying him out there is nothing the Wings can do about it, neither would Clarkson but the guy is basically done and will spend the rest of his career on LTIR due to back issues.

 

[kickazz 5,459]

16 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

LOL I'm not the one who is confused or up in arms that a player who deserves it is part of a list created by the NHL. I mean, if it bothers people that much have Malkin at 4 or whatever it's just a list created for celebration reasons.

You are up in arms. If you weren't you wouldn't be repeatedly responding in the thread.

Edited January 31, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

LOL I'm not the one who is confused or up in arms that a player who deserves it is part of a list created by the NHL. I mean, if it bothers people that much have Malkin at 4 or whatever it's just a list created for celebration reasons.

 

 

If you want to use economic terms than it's the net-utility to be precise. Fact is they got what they wanted and paid for it. Would a guy like Ericsson receive the same deal he signed before? For sure not probably a PTO or something like that but he has the contract and other than buying him out there is nothing the Wings can do about it, neither would Clarkson but the guy is basically done and will spend the rest of his career on LTIR due to back issues.

 

So you admit Ericsson is not worth his contract?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

So you admit Ericsson is not worth his contract?

Thought this was clear. Right now no way but it doesn't change a thing because he is on the books for the contract he has and the Wings only realistic option is buying him out.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 

Thought this was clear. Right now no way but it doesn't change a thing because he is on the books for the contract he has and the Wings only realistic option is buying him out.

 

But I thought "someone paid it so they are worth it, period." ? 

Is Toews worth his contract?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

But I thought "someone paid it so they are worth it, period." ? 
Is Toews worth his contract?

Read it till you understand it done talking semantics with you

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 

Read it till you understand it done talking semantics with you

 

I'm sorry. I thought we were having a nice conversation. If I have offended I apologize.

You argue that because Chicago offered Toews that contract he is inherently worth that contract.

But then you say Ericsson is not worth his contract, even though he was also fairly offered his contract same as Toews.

Why do you treat Toews and Ericsson differently?

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I'm sorry. I thought we were having a nice conversation. If I have offended I apologize.
You argue that because Chicago offered Toews that contract he is inherently worth that contract.
But then you say Ericsson is not worth his contract, even though he was also fairly offered his contract same as Toews.
Why do you treat Toews and Ericsson differently?

um I'm not offended, I'm never offended. Comparing Toews and Ericson doesn't make sense. One is a center the other guy a defender, Toews has won everything at his young age and has unparalleled leadership. So contractwise who knows that's for Bowman to decide. And again it doesn't matter he is owed 10,5 per for a few more years.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

 

um I'm not offended, I'm never offended. Comparing Toews and Ericson doesn't make sense. One is a center the other guy a defender, Toews has won everything at his young age and has unparalleled leadership. So contractwise who knows that's for Bowman to decide. And again it doesn't matter he is owed 10,5 per for a few more years.

 

Ok ok, I think I get it.

So because Toews plays C and has lots of accomplishments he is automatically worth his contract.

And because Ericsson plays D and has less accomplishments he is not automatically worth the contract he's offered.

Am I understanding you correctly still?

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

LOL I'm not the one who is confused or up in arms that a player who deserves it is part of a list created by the NHL. I mean, if it bothers people that much have Malkin at 4 or whatever it's just a list created for celebration reasons.

 

 

If you want to use economic terms than it's the net-utility to be precise. Fact is they got what they wanted and paid for it. Would a guy like Ericsson receive the same deal he signed before? For sure not probably a PTO or something like that but he has the contract and other than buying him out there is nothing the Wings can do about it, neither would Clarkson but the guy is basically done and will spend the rest of his career on LTIR due to back issues.

 

And with Toews decline would he still be worth 10.5 million a year that he signed initially? He's close to scoring 50 point this year an all time low for him. And last year only scored only 58 and had ZERO goals in the playoffs last year. He's been declinine for about 3 years now and this year has been his worst by far. 

So Frank tell us, is Toews worth that 10.5 million this year? You're certainly saying Ericsson is no longer worth the contract he signed. Your thinking is that if a player signed a contract then he was obviously worth it at the time, and now that someone brought up Ericsson, you're back tracking and saying that some players may not be worth that amount later on in the contract. And since EVERYONE in the league agrees than Toews is no longer the player he was couple of years ago... would the same rule you're applying to Ericsson apply towards Toews?

Is Toews worth the same dollar amount this year as he was when he signed that contract a couple years ago?

 

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by kickazz

[Jacksoni 418]

To me it seems Toews simply isn't hungry any more. Not everyone is Yzerman, with a crazy drive to excel, no matter what and no matter what anyone says.

Add to that a small natural physical decline and we have a potential answer.

I might be wrong. But some things are as simple as they seemed when glancing at the issue initially.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

29 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Frank extended the olive branch, fellas.  I get what he's getting at.  He was just wording it wrong at the start.  Now let's get back to discussing Kickazz' RIDICULOUS comparison of Nielsen to Toews.

It is a bit ridiculous yes. Toews is already worse than Nielsen and Frans is quite a bit older.

21 minutes ago, Jacksoni said:

To me it seems Toews simply isn't hungry any more. Not everyone is Yzerman, with a crazy drive to excel, no matter what and no matter what anyone says.

Add to that a small natural physical decline and we have a potential answer.

I might be wrong. But some things are as simple as they seemed when glancing at the issue initially.

If he worked harder he'd be having a better season I agree.

[toby91_ca 620]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It is a bit ridiculous yes. Toews is already worse than Nielsen and Frans is quite a bit older.

Is this a joke?  What aspect of the game is Nielsen better than Toews?

[kliq 3,755]

For a player to "decline" at 28 years old, without suffering any major injuries (unless there is something we don't know about) tells me he either isn't motivated anymore, has let himself go physically, or was just never that good to begin with.

[toby91_ca 620]

12 minutes ago, kliq said:

For a player to "decline" at 28 years old, without suffering any major injuries (unless there is something we don't know about) tells me he either isn't motivated anymore, has let himself go physically, or was just never that good to begin with.

I don't think there's really any decline. He's never been a top scorer, he's really only ever been a 60-70pt guy (other than 1 year where he put up 76).  Last year he was at 58pts (not too far off normal.  This year he simply slumped earlier in the year...28pts in 42 games is till a 55pt pace....a little low, but again, probably more due to early season slump...he has 13pts in his last 14 games.

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Frank extended the olive branch, fellas.  I get what he's getting at.  He was just wording it wrong at the start.  Now let's get back to discussing Kickazz' RIDICULOUS comparison of Nielsen to Toews.

Anyone else think's it's hilarious that Bill Berzeench/Jonas Mahonas has been trying really hard to flame bait me and failing? 

Lol here let's get back to it. 

Nielsen is better than Toews 

Edited February 1, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, toby91_ca said:

Is this a joke?  What aspect of the game is Nielsen better than Toews?

I think Toews has more tools than Nielsen, he just doesnt use them. Its been quite clear this year hes become complacent and isnt trying. Not very becoming of a captain.

Frans sees all sides of the ice just as well as Toews, and if he had that Hawks team around him hed be there top line center. Toews would be number 2.

Combine that with the fact that Nielsen is half the cap hit, and hes the more valuable player.

Toews got his cups but lost his hustle. Hes looking like the new Dany Heatley.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, toby91_ca said:

Is this a joke?  What aspect of the game is Nielsen better than Toews?

Traditional Defense.  

Edited February 1, 2017 by kickazz

[Echolalia 2,961]

Nothing to discuss there. Nielsen>Toews.  A more compelling question would be if Neilsen is greater than Malkin or Ericsson.  We've already established Ericsson's worth every penny of that contract, but Malkin is 14th all time in points/game.  Its a toss-up, frankly.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I always considered the Selke more of a "Untraditional Defense" trophy.  

[kickazz 5,459]

6 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

Nothing to discuss there. Nielsen>Toews. 

Agreed

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It is a bit ridiculous yes. Toews is already worse than Nielsen and Frans is quite a bit older.

So much agreement. 

3 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

I always considered the Selke more of a "Untraditional Defense" trophy.  

He won't respond to you, he'll only quote me to try to flame bait me. I'm an attractive guy man. Do you know why? Yes you do. It's because.

I am Ken Holland. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by kickazz