Rate Yzerman, Lidstrom and Zetterberg's leadership during their runs as C's

[LeftWinger 4,953]

The other night Mickey was talking about Z's presence in the lockeroom.  He said that Z doesn't say something every night, but when something needs to be said about how things are going, he says it and the players listen. 

Really?

So this dire situation doesn't require something being said every night?

If he is not saying "something" to this team after every s***show, then it just goes to show how "good" of captain he is.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Really? I thought he was?

that was the point of saying it, he wasn't a captain, yet he was still a better captain than Zetterberg...

were your obvious glasses off when you read that? Sheesh... I am almost insulted you took it as a serious statement.

I agree. Fedorov was a much better captain than Zetterberg.

[kickazz 5,459]

17 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Really? I thought he was?

that was the point of saying it, he wasn't a captain, yet he was still a better captain than Zetterberg...

were your obvious glasses off when you read that? Sheesh... I am almost insulted you took it as a serious statement.

Lol.

Hahahahahahhaah.

I suggest you re-read my post and see the deeper meaning. 

And I suggest you re-read your sentence I bolded for you.

 

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree. Fedorov was a much better captain than Zetterberg.

 ^ He gets it. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

11 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The other night Mickey was talking about Z's presence in the lockeroom.  He said that Z doesn't say something every night, but when something needs to be said about how things are going, he says it and the players listen. 

Really?

So this dire situation doesn't require something being said every night?

If he is not saying "something" to this team after every s***show, then it just goes to show how "good" of captain he is.

As much as I love Yzerman, do you really think that if we put Yzerman circa 2006 on this team in replacement of Zetterberg this team all of a sudden becomes a top team in the league? A locker room leader can only do so much.

[kickazz 5,459]

21 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The other night Mickey was talking about Z's presence in the lockeroom.  He said that Z doesn't say something every night, but when something needs to be said about how things are going, he says it and the players listen. 

Really?

So this dire situation doesn't require something being said every night?

If he is not saying "something" to this team after every s***show, then it just goes to show how "good" of captain he is.

Lol. There goes Lefty scapegoating people twisting positive words into something negative.

Please just stop now before we start unloading on you and your crap you always like to stir up. 

Redmond obviously meant it as a good thing and here you are trying to make it out as though it's a bad thing. 

Zetterberg is a more vocal captain than Lidstrom and Yzerman were : 

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/01/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_wi_1.html

“(Yzerman and Lidstrom) weren't huge rah-rah type players like (Kris Draper, an alternate captain) was. So you have different personalities, but certainly they're well-respected.''

"Teammates expect Zetterberg to be a bit more vocal than his predecessor. "

“Hank's probably a little more verbal than Nick was as a captain."

“You need to speak at the right moment and know when to shut up at the right moment,'' he said. “It's not just one guy who's got to do it, everyone has to do it together.''

----

So by your thought process that means Lidstrom and Yzerman are even worse than Zetterberg since they were less vocal. You walked right into this once Lefty. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

As much as I love Yzerman, do you really think that if we put Yzerman circa 2006 on this team in replacement of Zetterberg this team all of a sudden becomes a top team in the league? A locker room leader can only do so much.

Like I said. Yzerman and Lidstrom had better luck than Z. Lidstrom by far was the most privileged as a captain from 2006-2012. He had an all-star team for 6 years.

On the other hand, Yzerman saw both adversity and success. He had a s***ty team in the 80s which finally became good in the 90s. Zetterberg inherited a s***tier team from the get go. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by kickazz

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

22 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

You are falsely crediting Steve Yzerman for the work of Jim Devellano, Hakan Andersson, and Scotty Bowman.  Give this a read:

 

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/team/jim-devellano

Anyone else get redirected to an ad page first?

[kickazz 5,459]

36 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

You are falsely crediting Steve Yzerman for the work of Jim Devellano, Hakan Andersson, and Scotty Bowman.  Give this a read:

 

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/team/jim-devellano

They all deserve credit. But none of them were captains last I checked. A captain is a part of the bigger staff. 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Lol. There goes Lefty scapegoating people twisting positive words into something negative.

Please just stop now before we start unloading on you and your crap you always like to stir up. 

Redmond obviously meant it as a good thing and here you are trying to make it out as though it's a bad thing. 

Zetterberg is a more vocal captain than Lidstrom and Yzerman were : 

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/01/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_wi_1.html

“(Yzerman and Lidstrom) weren't huge rah-rah type players like (Kris Draper, an alternate captain) was. So you have different personalities, but certainly they're well-respected.''

"Teammates expect Zetterberg to be a bit more vocal than his predecessor. "

“Hank's probably a little more verbal than Nick was as a captain."

“You need to speak at the right moment and know when to shut up at the right moment,'' he said. “It's not just one guy who's got to do it, everyone has to do it together.''

----

So by your thought process that means Lidstrom and Yzerman are even worse than Zetterberg since they were less vocal. You walked right into this once Lefty. 

Unload...Unload...unload

First, I didn't say Mickey said something negative...I simply said, if Z isn't talking to this team after every crap game, he should be. If he isn't, he's not a very good captain.

Also, the Fedorov thing, even though he was not a Wings Captain yet the jest was he was a better one means Zetterberg is not even as good as a non-captain that wasn't a captain for the Wings. Not an alternate captain, a captain. Afterall this thread is, in your opinion, rate the 3.

click, click, unload...just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean its crap. Its your opinion vs. someone else's. IMO Zetterberg is NOT a good captain. Great player, just not captain. Unload.

I've said it for years. Sure he may offensively carry the team (more so years ago) but not a good captain.

By my though process he is worse than the others...I can't comment on the authors thought process.

You act like whoever doesn't agree with your ideas, they aren't real Wings fans. I've been living and breathing this team since 1979, RELIGIOUSLY! Just because our opinions differ doesn't make either of us the wiser or bigger Wings fan!

Unload, go ahead, I've been here since 03, I've been unloaded on more times than you have posts. It doesn't bother me. It actually makes me glad that it keeps the conversation away from just Rah Rah, Wings Rule!

[kickazz 5,459]

17 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Unload...Unload...unload

First, I didn't say Mickey said something negative...I simply said, if Z isn't talking to this team after every crap game, he should be. If he isn't, he's not a very good captain.

Also, the Fedorov thing, even though he was not a Wings Captain yet the jest was he was a better one means Zetterberg is not even as good as a non-captain that wasn't a captain for the Wings. Not an alternate captain, a captain. Afterall this thread is, in your opinion, rate the 3.

click, click, unload...just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean its crap. Its your opinion vs. someone else's. IMO Zetterberg is NOT a good captain. Great player, just not captain. Unload.

I've said it for years. Sure he may offensively carry the team (more so years ago) but not a good captain.

By my though process he is worse than the others...I can't comment on the authors thought process.

You act like whoever doesn't agree with your ideas, they aren't real Wings fans. I've been living and breathing this team since 1979, RELIGIOUSLY! Just because our opinions differ doesn't make either of us the wiser or bigger Wings fan!

Unload, go ahead, I've been here since 03, I've been unloaded on more times than you have posts. It doesn't bother me. It actually makes me glad that it keeps the conversation away from just Rah Rah, Wings Rule!

Let me put it this way. There's opinion that makes sense and is justifiable and there's opinion that makes no sense, is rubbish and has no justifiable evidence.. That's why people who do that get called out repeatedly. Certain members scapegoat players to make themselves feel better about something that bothers them. When adversity gets in the way as a fan they like to put the blame on something to feel better. Franzen, Holland, Blashill, Swedish players, Ericsson, Helm, Zetterberg, and most likely countless others since they joined the forums. 

What makes you think Zetterberg isn't speaking up after every game? Redmond's statement was meant to be figure-of-speech like. Not literal. If you aren't smart enough to realize that then lol. 

Take a look at the following post. TheXym has an opinion different than mine. But he can justify his thought process and actually make sense of it. I responded with "well said". It's called having a dialogue. So no, I don't act like people who have different opinions than me aren't real fans. But I do get involved when people spew out nonsense and don't have good reasons/justifiable evidence for it. I'm not a fan of rubbish being spread around the interwebs. 

2 hours ago, TheXym said:

Maybe the "introductory stats class" is needed to actually understand it.

 

Even though it seems "Under the Bridge" is playing in here, I'll answer.

Yzerman 10/10.  He was a prototypical captain.  Yes, he also had some of the best lieutenants ever assembled to help during the cup runs, but the guy embodied leadership.  Playing injured, after that crazy surgery that realigned his leg bone, the 2OT goal, carrying the franchise on his back during his earlier years, reinventing his game to win championships instead of individual awards, what more can you say?

Lidstrom 8.5/10.  He was one of Stevie's top lieutenants, but with the C led by example.  A Conn Smythe, showing up to practice the day after losing a ******** to a spear by Patrick Sharp, being an unparalleled stabilizing force on the blue line...  He didn't do what Stevie did, but was a damn good captain.

Hank 7.5/10.  He had nowhere near the supporting cast Stevie and Nick did.  Conn Smythe in a playoff run.  "The Shift" during the 2008 finals.  The years of not having high draft picks caught up to the team during his watch, and some questionable signings (Cleary) didn't help, but you can't blame the guy for things beyond his control.  Plus as others mentioned, he has been a warrior in regards to dealing with injuries.

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Well said...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Well said...

Unload.. unload... click unload click 

[kickazz 5,459]

14 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Lidstrom, Fedorov, Kozlov, Konstantinov were drafted.  Fetisov and Larionov were brought in by Devellano/Bowman.  And Bowman was brought in by Devellano.  

It's Kickazz's opinion that Yzerman is responsible for all this happening.

I think that opinion falls into your 2nd category, unfortunately.  

Didn't say he was responsible for any of those. Said he was an attractive piece to a franchise that started it all. 

Nice try with the flame-bait though lol. 

But you've lost your touch Billy. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by kickazz

[xault 272]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

The other night Mickey was talking about Z's presence in the lockeroom.  He said that Z doesn't say something every night, but when something needs to be said about how things are going, he says it and the players listen. 

Really?

So this dire situation doesn't require something being said every night?

If he is not saying "something" to this team after every s***show, then it just goes to show how "good" of captain he is.

 

No captain any of team could make this team any better at the age of 36. Team is trash, doesn't mean Z not a good captain. 

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Didn't say he was responsible for any of those. Said he was an attractive piece to a franchise that started it all. 

Nice try with the flame-bait though lol. 

But you've lost your touch Billy. 

100% agree with this. Its no different then Lucic (even though I cant stand him) going to Edmonton because he wants to play with McDavid. When you have a franchise player like that, it lures other players in.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

"But if it wasn't for Yzerman, none of those have fallen into place, Yzerman was the start of it all when he got drafted."

 

Your "attractive piece" portion is not where you erred.  It's the part before it.  

 

How do you plead?

Let me put it in a simple timeline for you. 1982 Illitch buys the org. One year later Yzerman is drafted, works his ass off and becomes a top 3 or 4 player in the league, becomes an attractive centerpiece, takes the Red Wings to the conference finals in 1987 for the first time in like 20 years. In 1993 Scott Bowman is hired and the rest follows suit and falls into place.

Do you get it? How do you plead? A. Smart or B. Not  

Edited January 29, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You may step down now.

And with that, thank you for confirming that you really are Bill Berzeench.

[kickazz 5,459]

6 minutes ago, kliq said:

And with that, thank you for confirming that you really are Bill Berzeench.

Walked right into it. Now we wonder how long till he gets the boot again. 

Thank you everyone for playing. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

And with that, thank you for confirming that you really are Bill Berzeench.

The mods must be really nice around here. I like that, even if some idiots get in.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

20 hours ago, kickazz said:

Let me put it in a simple timeline for you. 1982 Illitch buys the org. One year later Yzerman is drafted, works his ass off and becomes a top 3 or 4 player in the league, becomes an attractive centerpiece, takes the Red Wings to the conference finals in 1987 for the first time in like 20 years. In 1993 Scott Bowman is hired and the rest follows suit and falls into place.

Do you get it? How do you plead? A. Smart or B. Not  

You missed when Fedorov and Konstantinov came in. That was huge as well! Also, even though he didn't win a Cup here, I believe the trade for Paul Coffey was huge too. Not just because he got is Shanny later, but it showed players and teams around the league that The Red Wings are serious and will trade for stars in order to win. That is why I believe Bryan Murray and Jim Lites were just as huge in building this franchise as Bowman and Holland. 

But Bowman was the key for sure, that is why we need a new coach. You may have a mediocre bunch of players, but the right coach gets the best out of them and in turn it attracts the eye of star players. I know this isn't the coach thread, but it falls in line with what you two are talking about. 

I plead the 5th!

Edit: cannot forget Lidstrom!

Edited January 30, 2017 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

You missed when Fedorov and Konstantinov came in. That was huge as well! Also, even though he didn't win a Cup here, I believe the trade for Paul Coffey was huge too. Not just because he got is Shanny later, but it showed players and teams around the league that The Red Wings are serious and will trade for stars in order to win. That is why I believe Bryan Murray and Jim Lites were just as huge in building this franchise as Bowman and Holland. 

But Bowman was the key for sure, that is why we need a new coach. You may have a mediocre bunch of players, but the right coach gets the best out of them and in turn it attracts the eye of star players. I know this isn't the coach thread, but it falls in line with what you two are talking about. 

I plead the 5th!

Babs is the new Bowman. 

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

Per this article StevieY #2 Lids #5 

https://www.nhl.com/news/follow-the-leader-the-nhls-10-best-captains/c-640779

StevieY #3 Lids #8

http://www.si.com/nhl/photos/2012/12/19/nhl-top-10-captains-all-time

StevieY on this list no Lids

http://www.greatsportsarticles.com/Top-5-Articles/NHL-Captains-of-all-Time.html

StevieY #8  Lids #13 hard to believe who they put ahead of Stevie ..

http://www.thesportster.com/hockey/top-20-captains-in-nhl-history/2/

and no mention of Hank....but maybe honorable mention for the bad ass beard?

Seems no matter what Messier is always #1 not sure about that...

 

[chaps80 1,591]

Yzerman may as well still be captain. Lidstrom, while a great player, wasn't much of a captain. He was simply next in line for the "C" due to his on ice abilities and being with the team since The Streak began. The year he won the cup as captain, i'd say Z was more integral to the championship run as far as leadership goes. Not saying Lids didn't play a big role as well, but out of it all, the moment I recall most is Z killing off that late third period 5 on 3 frustrating the hell out of Crosby or anyone else who touched the puck. But while Z has better leadership abilities than Lids did, he doesn't come close to Stevie. Playing the entire 2002 cup run on one leg says it all. Pretty well any other player would have packed it in.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yzerman may as well still be captain. Lidstrom, while a great player, wasn't much of a captain. He was simply next in line for the "C" due to his on ice abilities and being with the team since The Streak began. The year he won the cup as captain, i'd say Z was more integral to the championship run as far as leadership goes. Not saying Lids didn't play a big role as well, but out of it all, the moment I recall most is Z killing off that late third period 5 on 3 frustrating the hell out of Crosby or anyone else who touched the puck. But while Z has better leadership abilities than Lids did, he doesn't come close to Stevie. Playing the entire 2002 cup run on one leg says it all. Pretty well any other player would have packed it in.

100% agreed

[kickazz 5,459]

5/10 for captaincy. 

“He is probably one of the best competitors I’ve ever been around in my life,” Blashill said. “His competitive desire is unreal. It’s not an outwardly competitiveness where he is real emotional -- it’s just his ability to grind.

“I believe we will make the playoffs because of Henrik Zetterberg.”

 

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/03/03/detroit-red-wings-jeff-blashill/98700184/

Edited March 4, 2017 by kickazz