Rate Yzerman, Lidstrom and Zetterberg's leadership during their runs as C's

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

5/10 for captaincy. 

“He is probably one of the best competitors I’ve ever been around in my life,” Blashill said. “His competitive desire is unreal. It’s not an outwardly competitiveness where he is real emotional -- it’s just his ability to grind.

“I believe we will make the playoffs because of Henrik Zetterberg.”

 

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/03/03/detroit-red-wings-jeff-blashill/98700184/

I saw a lot fans readingthis as "lol Blash is an idiot, he still thinks were gonna make the playoffs"

I read it as "if we miss, its not because of henrik zetterberg" as in, if we did it make it, it would be because Zberg basically willed us there. Hes subtely calling out the rest of the team. 

[kickazz 5,459]

27 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I saw a lot fans readingthis as "lol Blash is an idiot, he still thinks were gonna make the playoffs"

I read it as "if we miss, its not because of henrik zetterberg" as in, if we did it make it, it would be because Zberg basically willed us there. Hes subtely calling out the rest of the team. 

Ahh the 2013 will in the season/playoffs by Zetterberg was a great one. Unfortunately this year it's too steep a ladder to climb due to incompetency from too many people involved. 

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

46 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

2013 series against the Ducks was won when Abdelkader elbowed that guy in the head and took him out.  The Ducks never recovered.

We lost that game and the hit was on Lydman. Not sure how that effected games days later.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

And that's why you can just take my word for it.  Because you're not sure.  And I am.

I'm open to your theory....can you explain how the hit motivated Detroit the next game?

[shocky2002 36]

Impressive showing by Z the past couple of weeks IMO

[kickazz 5,459]

On 1/27/2017 at 11:21 PM, LeftWinger said:

Yzerman, Yzerman, Lidstrom. All due respect to Z as a player, not a good captain.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/henrik-zetterberg-still-one-of-the-nhls-best-leaders?utm_campaign=Contact Quiboat For More Referrer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=quiboat

That's two Canadian articles in last two days talking about Z's leadership.. and he's not even Canadian and neither is the team he plays for!  

[LeftWinger 4,961]

It's opinion. When compared to Yzerman and Lidstrom...not a good captain. Great player in his prime, but in comparison,  no. Sorry, two random sports reporters can't change facts.

[kickazz 5,459]

7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It's opinion. When compared to Yzerman and Lidstrom...not a good captain. Great player in his prime, but in comparison,  no. Sorry, two random sports reporters can't change facts.

It's all opinion lmao, yours, mine and theirs. You can't measure captaincy through facts unless you're looking at trophies; which would be a weak argument anyways. But if that's the case then "factually" speaking Zetterberg has more Leadership trophies than Lidstrom and Yzerman combined. 

What  do you think about Zetterberg as a captain compared to the other current NHL captains, Where do you rank him? 

Edited March 5, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Would anyone argue Z is in the bottom half of current NHL captains?

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

Yzerman obviously the best. I would say Lindstrom and Zetterberg about the same. Lindstrom with the edge. Zetterberg had no one to play with.

Zetterberg alone is why these garbage teams even made the playoffs.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Krayzie_Bone said:

Yzerman obviously the best. I would say Lindstrom and Zetterberg about the same. Lindstrom with the edge. Zetterberg had no one to play with.

Zetterberg alone is why these garbage teams even made the playoffs.

You mean Ysermen and Zedderburg?

[kliq 3,755]

Judging leadership is all guess work IMO. The only guys who could is answer this question truly would be Kronwall, Franzen, Cleary, Howard and KFQ. Though in the cases of KFQ and Howard they played sparingly under Yzerman, so really Kronwall, Franzen, and Cleary.

None of us know for sure, and most of us just judge leadership by the standings (ie. Toews).

Edited March 5, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

3 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Should be instaboot for lindstroming.

Johnny Captain is judged by his ability to lead the Blackhawks to cups.  They were in a long drought bwfore he got there.

That's essentially the same thing I said, most captain are judged by standings (ie. winning). My thing is this, if Toews gets injured, do I think they lose a step? I really dont think so with Keith, Seabrook, and Kane.

Edited March 5, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

They would be awesome still.  But I dont think they win without Toews.  He's the glue to that team.

But this is my point, there is no way to measure "glue". We are all just guessing.

[chaps80 1,591]

15 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Would anyone argue Z is in the bottom half of current NHL captains?

Nope. It's not his fault that Holland let the team go to s***, but it doesn't really seem like he can motivate all the players to head out there flying, play a full 60, and do whatever's needed to win. Or whatever's needed to at least have a respectable showing.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Granted nobody of us is in the locker-room and knows what's going on but to me it's simple:

Stevie (this guy played on one leg and still dominated) >> Perfect Human (Babs right hand) >>>>>>>> Z other than the occasional "we're not going to rebuild as long as I'm here and we are going to make the playoffs" comments I haven't seen/heard the same qualities the aforementioned players brought to the table. Nothing against Z awesome player but I don't think he is the same ballpark as the other 2 were. Z strike me as a more internally outspoken type of leader while the captain and perfect human did let their actions speak louder than words and comments.

Again not a knock against Z he simply was next in line personally I would have prefered Pasha as the next one.

[kliq 3,755]

41 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Granted nobody of us is in the locker-room and knows what's going on but to me it's simple:

Stevie (this guy played on one leg and still dominated) >> Perfect Human (Babs right hand) >>>>>>>> Z other than the occasional "we're not going to rebuild as long as I'm here and we are going to make the playoffs" comments I haven't seen/heard the same qualities the aforementioned players brought to the table. Nothing against Z awesome player but I don't think he is the same ballpark as the other 2 were. Z strike me as a more internally outspoken type of leader while the captain and perfect human did let their actions speak louder than words and comments.

Again not a knock against Z he simply was next in line personally I would have prefered Pasha as the next one.

Like I said earlier the only people who can actually answer this question are Franzen, Cleary, and Kronwall. What people are basically doing is saying the best leader is the guy who had the best team.

I have to ask Frank....why do you call Lidstrom "The Perfect Human"?

 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Like I said earlier the only people who can actually answer this question are Franzen, Cleary, and Kronwall. What people are basically doing is saying the best leader is the guy who had the best team.

I have to ask Frank....why do you call Lidstrom "The Perfect Human"?

 

Like I said it's just speculation but from what I've read and how people are raving about Yzerman, even Mr. I saying the guy has the winged wheel tatooed on his chest just speaks volumes about the type of captain this guy was.

As far as Lids well that's his nickname and frankly he more than deserved it, he made playing defense look so incredible easy.

Of course Z doesn't have much help but I think he can't get others to play with the same internal never surrender fire that he has and that's also a quality of a captain.

Edited March 6, 2017 by frankgrimes

[kliq 3,755]

26 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Like I said it's just speculation but from what I've read and how people are raving about Yzerman, even Mr. I saying the guy has the winged wheel tatooed on his chest just speaks volumes about the type of captain this guy was.

As far as Lids well that's his nickname and frankly he more than deserved it, he made playing defense look so incredible easy.

Of course Z doesn't have much help but I think he can't get others to play with the same internal never surrender fire that he has and that's also a quality of a captain.

From the stories, more then likely Yzerman was the best. Between Lidstrom and Zetterberg though, I think most pick Lidstrom because he was on better teams.

Huh, I didnt know that was actually a thing. Wierd nickname, but I googled it and you are right.

[kickazz 5,459]

Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership

But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 

And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...

"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."

I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership

But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 

And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...

"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."

I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

By the sounds of this, it likely goes....1) Yzerman, 2) Zetterberg, 3) Lidstrom.

But because we won a cup in 2008 and were a better team, fans incorrectly call Lidstrom a better leader then Zetterberg.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Ive never actually heard much about Lidstrom's captaincy. I've heard things from players that "he was quiet, led by example" in player interviews. Lidstrom is always talked about his on ice ability as a defender not about his leadership
But I have heard players definitely rave about Yzerman's captaincy though. Often players would talk about his 2002 playoffs run or how much respect they had from him or his tenacity. When players talk about Yzerman they seem to talk about his leadership guaranteed , that's just seems like the standard. 
And I've heard players rave about Zetterberg about how he "carries the team on his back" , his "will". Datsyuk himself said in an interview when Lidstrom retired that Zetterberg is the best choice. (I'll have to find the link). In the HBO 24:7 series I remember Cleary said how Zeterberg was "hands down the best captain in the NHL". Hell Zetterberg's own teammates nominated him for the King  Clancy Memorial trophy...
"One nominee from each club is selected by vote of his fellow players. Voters from the Professional Hockey Writers’ Association and NHL Broadcasters’ Association then selected Zetterberg from among the 30 club nominees to win this year’s award."
I've also heard Redmond rave about Yzerman for decades and Zetterberg a LOT. And you know Redmond travels with these players everywhere during games. 

If that's true then I agree it's 1. Y 2. Z and 3. perfect human

[LeftWinger 4,961]

so, question, if it's fair to say that if The Red Wings(TM) make he playoffs, it'll be because Zetterberg willed them in and carried them, ya?

So if they fail to make the playoffs is it because he didn't carry them enough or will hard enough or is it because of a bad team? You would think the excuse goes both ways...not knocking on Z, but it is a fair question.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 3/6/2017 at 0:49 PM, LeftWinger said:

so, question, if it's fair to say that if The Red Wings(TM) make he playoffs, it'll be because Zetterberg willed them in and carried them, ya?

So if they fail to make the playoffs is it because he didn't carry them enough or will hard enough or is it because of a bad team? You would think the excuse goes both ways...not knocking on Z, but it is a fair question.

Do you expect one person to win 17 out of the 19 games all by himself? Serious question. 

You would be the only one to make a twisted narrative like that. The entire hockey world is raving Zetterberg right now, coaches, players, journalists, social media. 

Be careful, you don't want people start blaming Osgood for not winning the 2009 cup and allowing those game 7 goals, nor would you want people to start blaming Fedorov for not going far in 99 playoffs since he only scored 1 goal. And I know you always rave about Osgood and Fedorov. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,961]

11 hours ago, kickazz said:

Do you expect one person to win 17 out of the 19 games all by himself? Serious question. 

You would be the only one to make a twisted narrative like that. The entire hockey world is raving Zetterberg right now, coaches, players, journalists, social media. 

Be careful, you don't want people start blaming Osgood for not winning the 2009 cup and allowing those game 7 goals, nor would you want people to start blaming Fedorov for not going far in 99 playoffs since he only scored 1 goal. And I know you always rave about Osgood and Fedorov. 

My point is, if we somehow make the playoffs, those raving people are going to credit Z for carrying the team, but wouldn't it work both ways? Or do we miss the playoffs and it's on 22 other players? It's a team thing,  either way. Nobody wills a team into the playoffs. Yzerman couldn't will a three-peat in 99, Lidstrom couldn't will back to back in 09. If we somehow made the playoffs it's because of the team getting some s*** together, we're missing the playoffs because multiple players who are paid to score goals and stop goals and scoring chanceshave sucked. And coaching and line decisions have been atrocious. None of which has much to do with Z. He can't will the others and he can't play for them. He seems to be trying, but others just aren't good enough to help him. And you remove your hate glasses for a minute, you'll see that I am complimenting Z.

Edited March 8, 2017 by LeftWinger