2017 NHLTrade Deadline Discussion

[LeftWinger 4,951]

8 minutes ago, amato said:

wow decent deal by Stevie 

Kenny would've gotten a 4th and an AHL player...

[LeftWinger 4,951]

8 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

Perhaps after 2013 we had "one" decent playoff run. Before that we were fine.

2011 -Lost to SJ in WCF game 7.

2012 - Lost to Preds in WQF game 5

2013 - Lost to Chicago WCF game 7

God we were so spoiled, thus some of our fans don't know we can't win every year.

No s*** we can't win every year. But we haven't won in what's going to be 8 years. Barely backed into the playoffs the last 3 years, missed them this year. Holland reeks of s***. Teams sure would  expect happy with what we had....but it is HAD, not have. We've had nothing since 2013. 

If this team, come training camp, still has Nyquist, Ericsson, Howard, on it and Helm Brimfield played top 6, Kenny should be dealt with swiftly. He has f***ed the fans of this team far too long. Kenny it's over,  you ******* suck. Should've just kept the players, all he is going to draft is a bunch of Nyquist playing mother f***ers...he'll blow the 1st as well in someone Italian league kid named Hok Ptew...

[amato 3,210]

 

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

No s*** we can't win every year. But we haven't won in what's going to be 8 years. Barely backed into the playoffs the last 3 years, missed them this year. Holland reeks of s***. Teams sure would  expect happy with what we had....but it is HAD, not have. We've had nothing since 2013. 

If this team, come training camp, still has Nyquist, Ericsson, Howard, on it and Helm Brimfield played top 6, Kenny should be dealt with swiftly. He has f***ed the fans of this team far too long. Kenny it's over,  you ******* suck. Should've just kept the players, all he is going to draft is a bunch of Nyquist playing mother f***ers...he'll blow the 1st as well in someone Italian league kid named Hok Ptew...

Yea, I think this post is sarcastic?

[scotzman 29]

7 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

Perhaps after 2013 we had "one" decent playoff run. Before that we were fine.

2011 -Lost to SJ in WCF game 7.

2012 - Lost to Preds in WQF game 5

2013 - Lost to Chicago WCF game 7

God we were so spoiled, thus some of our fans don't know we can't win every year.

What franchise is happy just making the playoffs? The goal is the Stanley Cup. I don't want a GM that's happy with anything less. If you don't win it, you do whatever you can to improve and get closer. Point to what moves Kenny has made since 2009 to get back to the Stanley Cup. To make it extremely simple, name a bold move Kenny has made to get closer to another Stanley Cup since 2009.

[amato 3,210]

10 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Kenny would've gotten a 4th and an AHL player...

Sounds like he'd be taking on less salary than Philly.. smart. 

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Vrbata didn't even get traded. 

That should provide some insight for why Vanek went for what he did. 

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Just now, scotzman said:

What franchise is happy just making the playoffs? The goal is the Stanley Cup. I don't want a GM that's happy with anything less. If you don't win it, you do whatever you can to improve and get closer. Point to what moves Kenny has made since 2009 to get back to the Stanley Cup. To make it extremely simple, name a bold move Kenny has made to get closer to another Stanley Cup since 2009.

I am not saying he has been a great GM but you say the team has sucked since 2010 is false. We haven't been very good for the past 3 years. NHL is a business first, if Illitch wanted the Wings in the playoffs to generate revenue, then Holland fulfilled most of his duties. We as fans don't understand the business side and just overlook it.

[scotzman 29]

For all the Ken Holland apologists, it's not just the return for Vanek that bothers people. It's the poor management of this team since 2009. Babcock was truly able to get everything out of those 2008 & 2009 Cup teams. From that point forward Babcock made it known he was doing the best with what he was given by the GM. He willed those teams to the playoffs most of the years after 2009.

1 minute ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

I am not saying he has been a great GM but you say the team has sucked since 2010 is false. We haven't been very good for the past 3 years. NHL is a business first, if Illitch wanted the Wings in the playoffs to generate revenue, then Holland fulfilled most of his duties. We as fans don't understand the business side and just overlook it.

You may be able to find it, but I don't recall saying this team "sucks" but I will readily admit I think that Kenny has let the game pass him by. He's not as shrewd as we thought he was. It's time for him to move on.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Be mad at Holland all you want for the Vanek trade. There clearly wasn't a market for him.

It's not like there was another deal that made it look bad. Numerous rentals didn't even get dealt. Those teams get nothing. At least we got something. 

[scotzman 29]

2 minutes ago, scotzman said:

We as fans don't understand the business side and just overlook it.

I would think the business side of it would maybe require the GM to acquire a show piece for the new Little Caesars Arena in 2017-2018 season. We'll see if he can pull that off during the NHL Draft. I'm not very hopeful in his ability to do that.

1 minute ago, Son of a Wing said:

Be mad at Holland all you want for the Vanek trade. There clearly wasn't a market for him.

It's not like there was another deal that made it look bad. Numerous rentals didn't even get dealt. Those teams get nothing. At least we got something. 

Not mad at Holland for Vanek trade alone... it's the sum of all his boneheaded moves and play it safe mentality.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Just now, Son of a Wing said:

Be mad at Holland all you want for the Vanek trade. There clearly wasn't a market for him.

It's not like there was another deal that made it look bad. Numerous rentals didn't even get dealt. Those teams get nothing. At least we got something. 

Now imagine we kept him and got nothing? lol.

[FireCaptain 563]

KFQ to the Blue Jackets for Dalton Prout

[scotzman 29]

Just now, DatsyukianDekes said:

Now imagine we kept him and got nothing? lol.

That would not have been a surprise... that says something.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

1 minute ago, scotzman said:

That would not have been a surprise... that says something.

No that speaks volumes about your attitude towards him. He's never been in a selling position, so there's no reason to think that. 

[scotzman 29]

4 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said:

No that speaks volumes about your attitude towards him. He's never been in a selling position, so there's no reason to think that. 

Were you confused about my attitude toward him? I think he needs to move on. He's not cutting it anymore. Not just because of Vanek, which I think I've made abundantly clear. I'm totally willing to eat my words after this years NHL Draft if he can unload Tatar/Nyquist and possibly Green. I'd prefer he moves Nyquist, but I'm not sure he can make that happen.

[amato 3,210]

 

traded to Pitt

 

so Tampa basically gave up a conditional 7th for getting rid of filps cap hit. Yzerman wheelin and dealin.. good job. 

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

8 minutes ago, scotzman said:

Were you confused about my attitude toward him? I think he needs to move on. He's not cutting it anymore. Not just because of Vanek, which I think I've made abundantly clear. I'm totally willing to eat my words after this years NHL Draft if he can unload Tatar/Nyquist and possibly Green. I'd prefer he moves Nyquist, but I'm not sure he can make that happen.

No I'm just confused why you're using this thread to critique Holland's career. It's a trade deadline thread and you're bringing up the last 5 years playoffs.  

[scotzman 29]

6 minutes ago, Son of a Wing said:

No I'm just confused why you're using this thread to critique Holland's career. It's a trade deadline thread and you're bringing up the last 5 years playoffs.  

Sorry for your confusion... if you're following along, there have been quite a few people upset with the Vanek trade. I mentioned my displeasure but added that it's not solely due to the Vanek trade but his recent body of work. At that point, a few people pointed out to me that they disagreed with that opinion. I proceeded to plead my case. Hope that clears it up for you.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

8 minutes ago, scotzman said:

Sorry for your confusion... if you're following along, there have been quite a few people upset with the Vanek trade. I mentioned my displeasure but added that it's not solely due to the Vanek trade but his recent body of work. At that point, a few people pointed out to me that they disagreed with that opinion. I proceeded to plead my case. Hope that clears it up for you.

Great and if you want to have that discussion, take it somewhere else. We don't need yet another thread analyzing Holland's career. 

[scotzman 29]

Just now, Son of a Wing said:

Great and if you want to have that discussion, take it somewhere else. We don't need yet another thread analyzing Holland's career. 

That seems like a pretty pushy statement... are you the arbiter of what can and can't be discussed? I'm not trying to pick a fight, but you sure seem hellbent on telling me what to do. Again, I only responded to where the conversation was going.

[Majsheppard 203]

1 hour ago, Son of a Wing said:

No I'm just confused why you're using this thread to critique Holland's career. It's a trade deadline thread and you're bringing up the last 5 years playoffs.  

Because this is a trade deadline thread, his job is to fix the team in the trade deadline, and he is making an argument about his past failures are not being addressed?

I think the point is that, these are all pieces that are put together by Holland.  If you screw up something, you have to compensate.  All that is happening now is he is trying to fix his past mistakes, and isn't doing a very good job of it. 

[e_prime 1,936]

#threadpolice

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Holland failed.

This was supposed to be a sale to help our rebuild. He was supposed to make it to where we can start calling players up to play here permanently. He did nothing to help in that. He did nothing to lighten the cap next season,  unlike Toronto last season, Holland just dumped a few free agents that probably weren't going to come back here anyhow. Sure, he got a couple of draft picks, but we aren't going to see those players for about 5 years, if at all. Dumping UFA'S for picks is child's play, your grandmother could've done that. He needed to dump about $12m in salary and at least 3 roster spots that were to be taken up next season. Selling is dumping players that take up too much cap and valuable roster spots keeping the rebuild in Grand Rapids. We didn't need to sell off UFA'S for middle round picks. We needed to sell off millions of dollars for middle to low round picks. If 1st rounders weren't being offered to you for your coveted UFA'S then you may as well kept them for the remainder. The focus should've been dumping Nyquist, Helm, Ericsson, Howard, Green, contracts like that. Montreal was looking for a scoring winger, call them offer them Nyquist for a 4th or lower. At least 3 of those 5 mentioned should be on other teams today. What Holland did was not sell for a rebuild. He pawned off players he wasn't going to resign for picks that mean nothing and will probably never see the nhl, at least not until 2021. Meanwhile, we still only have  $6M in cap space for next season...that is not selling to make room for the rebuild. That is failing your fans, your team, your owners and yourself.

Look what Yzerman did with flip. That's selling. He cleared cap and a roster spot, for middle or lower pick. Just keep thinking Holland knows how to run a team, today was his chance to truly show he is a good gm. He failed miserably.

I like draft picks and was excited in the direction he seemed to be going, but he values his players too much to truly rebuild. Hence the reason he was still trying to sign Smith yesterday. Like I said at least 3 roster spots and $12M should've been freed up off next seasons roster, but you're going to once again have the highest paid team in the league with damn near the worst record. And this is what you call selling for a rebuild...

absolute fail.

[Dabura 12,207]

27 minutes ago, Majsheppard said:

Because this is a trade deadline thread, his job is to fix the team in the trade deadline, and he is making an argument about his past failures are not being addressed?

I think the point is that, these are all pieces that are put together by Holland.  If you screw up something, you have to compensate.  All that is happening now is he is trying to fix his past mistakes, and isn't doing a very good job of it. 

If you were expecting Holland to "fix the team" this week, your expectations were misplaced.

There's no quick and easy fix for this team. We have to rebuild, and we have to be smart about how we do that. Part of that is getting the best return you can get for the assets that you've deemed expendable. So, like, sure -- maybe Holland could've moved Nyquist today. We would've enjoyed the immediate gratification, but we would've been selling low on one of our better assets, because 1) trade deadline week generally isn't the time for shopping non-rental players, and 2) Nyquist has really struggled this season. If we're really serious about fixing mistakes and doing a rebuild the right way, it makes much more sense to be patient and wait. What's the rush?