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LeftWinger

2017 NHLTrade Deadline Discussion

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Simple, do the Wings Buy to try to make the playoffs or SELL to get draft picks and rebuild.  

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No rush but he did nothing to help a rebuild. He cleared zero cap or roster space for next season. Well have a higher payroll and the same (worse without vanek) team. Unless McIlrath has a miraculous summer of redefining the direction of his nhl career,  we'll have the same D...Smith barely played anyhow. Same goalies, same full time forwards minus Vanek. Be ready for another abysmal season in 17-18. Plus still having the highest payroll in the nhl...again. 

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25 minutes ago, Dabura said:

If you were expecting Holland to "fix the team" this week, your expectations were misplaced.

There's no quick and easy fix for this team. We have to rebuild, and we have to be smart about how we do that. Part of that is getting the best return you can get for the assets that you've deemed expendable. So, like, sure -- maybe Holland could've moved Nyquist today. We would've enjoyed the immediate gratification, but we would've been selling low on one of our better assets, because 1) trade deadline week generally isn't the time for shopping non-rental players, and 2) Nyquist has really struggled this season. If we're really serious about fixing mistakes and doing a rebuild the right way, it makes much more sense to be patient and wait. What's the rush?

Agreed.  

A rebuild doesn't get done in a day.  Up until just a few weeks ago this team was still "rebuilding on the fly" There's probably still a lot of that mentality in the management group.  Do you just give up on 25 years of playoffs over night?  An attitude of we're one or two pieces away from contending or going deep with the blink of an eye.  Sure. You, the casual or fanatical fan might be able to, but that's not how things work.

How many contracts with term or huge cap were actually moved today?  ...or this week?  Those things require hockey trades.  How many of those were completed today?  This week? 

Oh right, it doesn't matter how the league works or what GMs are really looking for on Trade Deadline day.  It's what Ken Holland did or did not do.  Sorry your most hated player of the month didn't get moved.  Or that Ken Holland didn't do enough for you. Sorry about your tough luck. 

I'm sure Ken Holland is losing a lot of sleep about how you feel he did on trade deadline day

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19 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

No rush but he did nothing to help a rebuild. He cleared zero cap or roster space for next season. Well have a higher payroll and the same (worse without vanek) team. Unless McIlrath has a miraculous summer of redefining the direction of his nhl career,  we'll have the same D...Smith barely played anyhow. Same goalies, same full time forwards minus Vanek. Be ready for another abysmal season in 17-18. Plus still having the highest payroll in the nhl...again. 

You do realize that we were sellers... and on trade deadline that means giving up players that teams are actually looking for. Teams are looking for a difference maker or player that can add some depth or specific need. Usually a UFA or a player that has very specifc cap hit number.  C'mon Lefty.  This ain't your first rodeo. Why do we all have to talk you down every "NHL Event Day" Stop pretending like these singular days, Free Agent Frenzy, Trade Deadline Day, and Day 1 of the Draft, are going to miraculously transform this team into your fantasy team.

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Ken Holland wouldn't lose sleep if he did nothing or traded a 1st for a bottom 6 defender...he's in his own world where he thinks that this is the year "2008 Franzen" turns up. Nyquist will never be any better, Helm will never be any better, Ericsson is not going to show up one day and be lidstrom. Howard will never be a Cup goalie. The time has come to cut ties with these players that were so graciously and grossly overpaid and for far too long. Highest salary in the nhl, 3rd worst record...what does Holland do? Nothing to make room for a rebuild. But, we'll see if he can clear  $12M or more over the summer...he has time, but I doubt he'll cut ties with anyone. And we'll still be the highest paid team and finish in the same group of basement dwellers...

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7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ken Holland wouldn't lose sleep if he did nothing or traded a 1st for a bottom 6 defender...he's in his own world where he thinks that this is the year "2008 Franzen" turns up. Nyquist will never be any better, Helm will never be any better, Ericsson is not going to show up one day and be lidstrom. Howard will never be a Cup goalie. The time has come to cut ties with these players that were so graciously and grossly overpaid and for far too long. Highest salary in the nhl, 3rd worst record...what does Holland do? Nothing to make room for a rebuild. But, we'll see if he can clear  $12M or more over the summer...he has time, but I doubt he'll cut ties with anyone. And we'll still be the highest paid team and finish in the same group of basement dwellers...

 

No really, man.  You should put the internet away for a while.  #genuineconcern

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Holland failed.

This was supposed to be a sale to help our rebuild. He was supposed to make it to where we can start calling players up to play here permanently. He did nothing to help in that. He did nothing to lighten the cap next season,  unlike Toronto last season, Holland just dumped a few free agents that probably weren't going to come back here anyhow. Sure, he got a couple of draft picks, but we aren't going to see those players for about 5 years, if at all. Dumping UFA'S for picks is child's play, your grandmother could've done that. He needed to dump about $12m in salary and at least 3 roster spots that were to be taken up next season. Selling is dumping players that take up too much cap and valuable roster spots keeping the rebuild in Grand Rapids. We didn't need to sell off UFA'S for middle round picks. We needed to sell off millions of dollars for middle to low round picks. If 1st rounders weren't being offered to you for your coveted UFA'S then you may as well kept them for the remainder. The focus should've been dumping Nyquist, Helm, Ericsson, Howard, Green, contracts like that. Montreal was looking for a scoring winger, call them offer them Nyquist for a 4th or lower. At least 3 of those 5 mentioned should be on other teams today. What Holland did was not sell for a rebuild. He pawned off players he wasn't going to resign for picks that mean nothing and will probably never see the nhl, at least not until 2021. Meanwhile, we still only have  $6M in cap space for next season...that is not selling to make room for the rebuild. That is failing your fans, your team, your owners and yourself.

Look what Yzerman did with flip. That's selling. He cleared cap and a roster spot, for middle or lower pick. Just keep thinking Holland knows how to run a team, today was his chance to truly show he is a good gm. He failed miserably.

I like draft picks and was excited in the direction he seemed to be going, but he values his players too much to truly rebuild. Hence the reason he was still trying to sign Smith yesterday. Like I said at least 3 roster spots and $12M should've been freed up off next seasons roster, but you're going to once again have the highest paid team in the league with damn near the worst record. And this is what you call selling for a rebuild...

absolute fail.

R-E-L-A-X 

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W

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Ken Holland wouldn't lose sleep if he did nothing or traded a 1st for a bottom 6 defender...he's in his own world where he thinks that this is the year "2008 Franzen" turns up. Nyquist will never be any better, Helm will never be any better, Ericsson is not going to show up one day and be lidstrom. Howard will never be a Cup goalie. The time has come to cut ties with these players that were so graciously and grossly overpaid and for far too long. Highest salary in the nhl, 3rd worst record...what does Holland do? Nothing to make room for a rebuild. But, we'll see if he can clear  $12M or more over the summer...he has time, but I doubt he'll cut ties with anyone. And we'll still be the highest paid team and finish in the same group of basement dwellers...

What does any of this have to do with today?

Ericsson - Why would any team trade for an injured player at the trade deadline? Truly ask yourself this? If you were another GM, would you be skeptical trading for E and his contract? If you were, but were still leaning towards getting him, why would you do it at the trade deadline? A player like E, if traded would be traded in the summer.

Howard - See Ericsson

Nyquist - There is no need to trade Nyquist unless its a player for player trade or 1st round picks. This is the kind of guy you want to use when trying to acquire a top 4 D-man. I have no idea why you have such hate for him. Its like now that Franzen is gone you need another Swede to scapegoat.

Helm - Not going there with you again, this was the entire summer with you.

Green (I think you mentioned him earlier) - He will probably have more value next season when he is in his final year. Teams would love a player like him for a playoff run, but some teams may be hesitant about his 6mil cap-hit for next season.

Relax.

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3 hours ago, Dabura said:

If you were expecting Holland to "fix the team" this week, your expectations were misplaced.

There's no quick and easy fix for this team. We have to rebuild, and we have to be smart about how we do that. Part of that is getting the best return you can get for the assets that you've deemed expendable. So, like, sure -- maybe Holland could've moved Nyquist today. We would've enjoyed the immediate gratification, but we would've been selling low on one of our better assets, because 1) trade deadline week generally isn't the time for shopping non-rental players, and 2) Nyquist has really struggled this season. If we're really serious about fixing mistakes and doing a rebuild the right way, it makes much more sense to be patient and wait. What's the rush?

I'd like to point out again that not once have I suggested that the Trade Deadline was the quick fix or the magic bullet. My assertion will continue to be that this is another piece of the problem that is Ken Holland. His moves, whether they are contracts, trades or coaching decisions have been bad for a while now.

If people can't see that, I'm not sure they ever will.

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2 minutes ago, scotzman said:

I'd like to point out again that not once have I suggested that the Trade Deadline was the quick fix or the magic bullet. My assertion will continue to be that this is another piece of the problem that is Ken Holland. His moves, whether they are contracts, trades or coaching decisions have been bad for a while now.

If people can't see that, I'm not sure they ever will.

I think the point that many are trying to make to you, is that this is a trade deadline thread that you are using to complain about Ken Holland's performance over the past 6 years. We all get it, you are not happy with Holland, noted. Where the disconnect lies is with people who have preconceived notions about Holland and the past 6 years (I am not even debating right now if this is fair or not fair), and based on those notions/bias's are unfairly evaluating his performance today. If Holland was fired, and Yzerman came in 2 weeks ago and made identical moves to what Holland did today, simple question, would you be happy? Or unhappy?

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Great work this year Ken! Vanek and Otter were phenomenal pick ups, sucks that dumb bloke Blashill screwed it up.

Ditched our UFAs as we demanded. Huge return on loser Smith, and even HUGER return for Vanek (new Dylan is massive).

We are brimming with draft picks and I cannot wait to see New Dylan punch some heads off. As a rebuilding team I think its smart to sacrafice skill for nastiness. Hes not going to take ice time from any of our kids who need it, while also being able to utterly destroy anyone who opens there mouth around our young stars. Perfect. Should give our kids a nice confidence boost and safety net. 

All hail Ken Holland, supreme tire kicker, and bringer of Dylans

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Who sits for the new Dylan? Kronwall? Doubt it, so ya, he will take away from one of the kids. Kronwall won't sit for more than a game here and there because Ken Holland.

All hail the 3rd worst team in the league with the highest payroll in the nhl! All hail the GM who refused to clear cap space off next year's roster, because what if Nyquist 2014 returns? Next season well be worse with an even higher payroll. All hail Ken Holland! He got us some low picks to chose another or two 5'11" d-men that weigh 156lbs.

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Dude, when I need to tell you to relax about Crazy Uncle Kenny you know you've gone off the deep end. The deadline isn't when teams clear space for next year generally, that happens in the offseason. And it's not unreasonable to expect Nyquist and Tatar to rebound assuming Trashill is taken to the curb.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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25 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Who sits for the new Dylan? Kronwall? Doubt it, so ya, he will take away from one of the kids. Kronwall won't sit for more than a game here and there because Ken Holland.

All hail the 3rd worst team in the league with the highest payroll in the nhl! All hail the GM who refused to clear cap space off next year's roster, because what if Nyquist 2014 returns? Next season well be worse with an even higher payroll. All hail Ken Holland! He got us some low picks to chose another or two 5'11" d-men that weigh 156lbs.

Yeah man relax. New Dylan is cool.

This team isnt a superior, refined, precision made, european porsche anymore. That car - while great - broke down after 25 years of heavy mileage. And the economy hasnt been too good, so we had to trade it in for a beater (pun intended). Now we're driving a 92 Silverado named Dylan. Yeah it's rough, yeah it's blue collar, yeah it's not winning any races. But all your bros can ride in the bed and it will get you to the beer store. And maybe we'll run over a porsche on the way there!

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58 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Who sits for the new Dylan? Kronwall? Doubt it, so ya, he will take away from one of the kids. Kronwall won't sit for more than a game here and there because Ken Holland.

All hail the 3rd worst team in the league with the highest payroll in the nhl! All hail the GM who refused to clear cap space off next year's roster, because what if Nyquist 2014 returns? Next season well be worse with an even higher payroll. All hail Ken Holland! He got us some low picks to chose another or two 5'11" d-men that weigh 156lbs.

You're starting to freak us out. Calmmm downnnn 

It's not that bad. We hit a good start for some changes. It's not going to come easy. It going to take a couple of years at least. On the other hand there's no reason to give up on Nyquist or Tatar yet "just to dump contracts". If we got a high pick this year and somehow if got Nolan Patrick or Vilardi, either could very well be our 1Cs come October of 2017 and center Nyquist/Tatar and end up being a really good elite line. Just look at what Mathews is doing for Toronto. That amount of improvement could be us in October. And with the amount of picks we have now, simply increases out chances of landing another hidden gem that could be developed in a couple of years and we're back on top. Doesn't have to be an 8 year rebuild, could very well be 3-4 years. It's all in the probability and these later picks have increased our probability tremendously. 

One thing at a time is what their approach looks like, let's see how things are this summer. 

Edited by kickazz

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37 minutes ago, kickazz said:

You're starting to freak us out. Calmmm downnnn 

It's not that bad. We hit a good start for some changes. It's not going to come easy. It going to take a couple of years at least. On the other hand there's no reason to give up on Nyquist or Tatar yet "just to dump contracts". If we got a high pick this year and somehow if got Nolan Patrick or Vilardi, either could very well be our 1Cs come October of 2017 and center Nyquist/Tatar and end up being a really good elite line. Just look at what Mathews is doing for Toronto. That amount of improvement could be us in October. And with the amount of picks we have now, simply increases out chances of landing another hidden gem that could be developed in a couple of years and we're back on top. Doesn't have to be an 8 year rebuild, could very well be 3-4 years. It's all in the probability and these later picks have increased our probability tremendously. 

One thing at a time is what their approach looks like, let's see how things are this summer. 

First Holland signs Franzen to a long term average cap hit deal, and now he gets less return than I want for Vanek?

Nice try Kickazz

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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4 hours ago, scotzman said:

I'd like to point out again that not once have I suggested that the Trade Deadline was the quick fix or the magic bullet.

To be clear, I was responding to Majsheppard.

4 hours ago, scotzman said:

My assertion will continue to be that this is another piece of the problem that is Ken Holland. His moves, whether they are contracts, trades or coaching decisions have been bad for a while now.

If people can't see that, I'm not sure they ever will.

I'm a card-carrying member of the Holland Has to Go Club. I'm counting down the days until his contract expires and praying his successor isn't Ryan Martin or Kris Draper or any other member of this front office. But I agree with Dickie: Holland's been crap, he did well at this deadline, these aren't mutually exclusive statements.

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2 hours ago, kickazz said:

It's not that bad. We hit a good start for some changes. It's not going to come easy. It going to take a couple of years at least. On the other hand there's no reason to give up on Nyquist or Tatar yet "just to dump contracts". If we got a high pick this year and somehow if got Nolan Patrick or Vilardi, either could very well be our 1Cs come October of 2017 and center Nyquist/Tatar and end up being a really good elite line. Just look at what Mathews is doing for Toronto. That amount of improvement could be us in October.

I don't want to fan the flames of discontent or bum anyone out, but...Auston Matthews is a generational talent, and he's surrounded by very good players in Mitch Marner, Morgan Rielly, Nazem Kadri, William Nylander, and James van Riemsdyk, all of whom were top-ten picks. And they're all coached by Mike Babcock.

I think it's fair to say we have a fairly long and painful road ahead of us. Even if Holland had knocked this deadline out of the park, and even if we somehow land one of the top two players in this year's draft, I'd probably say the same thing. It'll take much more than a Nolan Patrick to truly get us back on the right path, IMO.

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I do think we "could" be a lot closer than some people think, if the right moves are made, but I do agree, Nolan Patrick would not be able to carry this team in his rookie season the way Matthews or McDavid have their respective teams. When people keep saying, "this is a weak draft", they're talking about the talent at the top. There's some very good young players at the top, but no true studs. I'm sure the 2nd round and onward are much the same as past draft classes, with some decent players, some busts as well as some steals. In saying that, I do hope we can somehow draft one of Patrick or Vilardi, because either would help this team immensely. I'm also still holding out hope that we can make some moves this summer, to offload some big contracts, add a couple more picks, possibly move up in the draft, and maybe even add a top pair defenseman...

A lot can still happen between now and October...

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