Interview with Petr Mrazek

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Ya I'm not  heartbroken we didn't get chychrun, just remember laughing at teams thinking they could blackmail us into trading top prospects to trade datsyuks contract to help teams like Arizona who don't spend 

 

i said at the time we should just suck it up for a year and give some kids more playing time , looking back we should of done just that , jurco AA mantha would be better off right now, we'd have chychrun as mentioned who looks like will be an nhler where as cholowski is uncertain 

 

and more importantly we wouldn't have Nielsen, that contract will kill us in a few years ... Holland really needs to step down, he's got no clue what he's doing anymore , I always defended him but now I'm starting to see holland as a fraud

 

our big guys growing up were all drafted ....hull/robitaille/hossa all wanted to come  here cause we were winning so holland had no factor 

 

was holland here when we got draper for 1$?? The only thing I can think of right now that he's ever done was the shanahan/hasek/chelios/Murphy deals that were made 17-20years ago 

 

so for 2 decades he's basically done f*** all that i can think of

[kickazz 5,459]

If Arizona picked Chyrchrun after we traded down for Cholowski and got rid of Datsyuk's contract and signed Steven Stamkos for July 1st, 2016, this conversation wouldn't be happening. 

Actually wait, it still would be happening since Stamkos was injured this year. People would be crying about how Holland "shouldn't have signed Stamkos, he's injury prone, BLAH BLAH BLAH I know how to GM better in front of a computer screen on my desk at home"

Edited February 9, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I always thought the Datsyuk contract dump in exchange for moving down in the draft was a bad move. Holland was trying to dump it to anyone he could before the draft, but there were no takers. Arizona knew Holland was looking to draft a defenceman with his first pick, saw Chychrun (who they were gunning for)was still on the board, so they went to Holland, who of course jumped at the deal because he was so determined to clear dead cap to sign a vet to help continue The Streak instead of just eating the cap and starting the overdue rebuild, and they got their man. A 6'2 210lb hard hitting physical two way dman who was more or less NHL ready and ranked top 5 for part of the year. Guess Kenny figured that kind of player couldn't help the Wings impending rebuild though. Nah, overpay to sign a 32 year old 2nd line center and draft some skinny baby faced offensive minded dman they could have taken in the 2nd round that's just starting college and won't be of any use for years, if at all. What a joke.

Chychrun has 61 hits on the season. He's hitting at the same pace as Kronwall, Ericsson, and Brendan Smith. Do you consider any of those 3 hard-hitting physical D-men?

I see you've cooked up a nice narrative on how that deal went down. I seem to remember most being thrilled with the deal at the time it happened, as the speculation was that moving that contract would cost us a lot more than it actually did.

8 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Vegas does have an "early window" to negotiate with UFAs, but I doubt many will sign with them instead of waiting until July 1 when they can receive offers from all other teams in the league and maximize the amount of money and term they'll get. 

If he gets traded but intends to come back to Detroit, cool. He wouldn't be the first player traded at the deadline to resign with his old team come July 1.

Too early to tell if he sucks or not. And he does play in Arizona. Hope Cholowski ducks when he sees him coming. If he makes the NHL that is.

So it's too early to tell on Chychrun, but Cholowski is a "waste". Ok dude.

[chaps80 1,591]

8 hours ago, kickazz said:

You do realize Chychrun is basically the size of Dekeyser? Maybe has like 5 or so pounds on DK. They're both lanky skinny. All of our other defenseman weigh more than Chychrun lmfao.

Talk about overrating a player. Chyrchrun is not that good. He might be down the road but you're acting like losing out on Chychrun is a big deal. It's not. He wouldn't have sniffed the Red Wing locker room even if we drafted him. 

 

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Chychrun has 61 hits on the season. He's hitting at the same pace as Kronwall, Ericsson, and Brendan Smith. Do you consider any of those 3 hard-hitting physical D-men?

I see you've cooked up a nice narrative on how that deal went down. I seem to remember most being thrilled with the deal at the time it happened, as the speculation was that moving that contract would cost us a lot more than it actually did.

So it's too early to tell on Chychrun, but Cholowski is a "waste". Ok dude.

Haha both of you guys love jumping on 95 percent of my comments around here, but that's cool.

I'm not overrating Chychrun. He was easily one of the best defensemen in the draft. He has a very high ceiling.  Just because he hasn't made a huge impact on his team yet means nothing. He will get better quicker than Cholowski will. By the time he finds his way to Detroit, Chych will already have a few seasons under his belt. As for his size, he's not huge, but he's big enough and is known for massive hits. Pretty sure he was compared to Scott Stevens at one point. His hit total isn't high this season, but it's also a learning season for him. You can't compare him to Kronwall, Errorsson, and Smith because they're all NHL veterans, two of them with over a decade of experience. Smith can throw some big hits if he's in the mood. Kronwall used to. I'm sure once Chych gets more games in and his confidence grows, he'll become one of the most feared hitters in the league.

I didn't "cook up" anything in regards to the deal. Holland tried for a week before the draft to move Dats ghost cap hit, but couldn't get a trade done. At the draft, Arizona noticed the guy they wanted (Chychrun) was dropping and wanted to move up a few spots to snag him, so they called Holland  (apparantly they were one of the teams he talked to earlier in the week, but couldn' make a trade happen) and offered to take the empty salary if they could exchange draft spots and some other throw ins. Holland took it. At first it looked like he made a good deal, even if he lost out on Chych, because he opened up lots of cap. But what did he do with it? Resigned Helm for too much money and term, and when Stamkos wouldn't give him the time of day, he signed Nielson (who was probably the only sorta big name UFA interested in Detroit) for too much money and term. He did get Vanek for 2.6 million though, and it turned out to be a steal, but he could have found a way to sign him without moving Dats contract. So trade draft spots, lose out on the best Dman left and draft a Dman who should have gone in the second round at most. Then take your new windfall and end up spending to the cap with dumb long term contracts for vets, when you should be moving towards more youth on the team and a rebuild. There was already enough overpaid 30-plus year old vets to help the kids out.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 

Haha both of you guys love jumping on 95 percent of my comments around here, but that's cool.

I'm not overrating Chychrun. He was easily one of the best defensemen in the draft. He has a very high ceiling.  Just because he hasn't made a huge impact on his team yet means nothing. He will get better quicker than Cholowski will. By the time he finds his way to Detroit, Chych will already have a few seasons under his belt. As for his size, he's not huge, but he's big enough and is known for massive hits. Pretty sure he was compared to Scott Stevens at one point. His hit total isn't high this season, but it's also a learning season for him. You can't compare him to Kronwall, Errorsson, and Smith because they're all NHL veterans, two of them with over a decade of experience. Smith can throw some big hits if he's in the mood. Kronwall used to. I'm sure once Chych gets more games in and his confidence grows, he'll become one of the most feared hitters in the league.

I didn't "cook up" anything in regards to the deal. Holland tried for a week before the draft to move Dats ghost cap hit, but couldn't get a trade done. At the draft, Arizona noticed the guy they wanted (Chychrun) was dropping and wanted to move up a few spots to snag him, so they called Holland  (apparantly they were one of the teams he talked to earlier in the week, but couldn' make a trade happen) and offered to take the empty salary if they could exchange draft spots and some other throw ins. Holland took it. At first it looked like he made a good deal, even if he lost out on Chych, because he opened up lots of cap. But what did he do with it? Resigned Helm for too much money and term, and when Stamkos wouldn't give him the time of day, he signed Nielson (who was probably the only sorta big name UFA interested in Detroit) for too much money and term. He did get Vanek for 2.6 million though, and it turned out to be a steal, but he could have found a way to sign him without moving Dats contract. So trade draft spots, lose out on the best Dman left and draft a Dman who should have gone in the second round at most. Then take your new windfall and end up spending to the cap with dumb long term contracts for vets, when you should be moving towards more youth on the team and a rebuild. There was already enough overpaid 30-plus year old vets to help the kids out.

Are you implying we are out to get you or something? Trust me, I do not come here looking for your posts to refute. We probably just fundamentally disagree about the team, but that's ok, if we didn't have differing opinion there wouldn't be anything to talk about.

You stated "I'm not overrating Chychrun" and "he'll (Chychrun) become on the most feared hitters in the league" in the same paragraph. To me, that clearly illustrates that you are overrating Chychrun. It is indeed very rare to find an NHL-ready Dman in the draft, but that in no way guarantees he will develop into "the most feared hitter in the league" or even a decent top 4 guy. I think you have to wait and see on both Chychrun and Cholowski yet. I think that's pretty reasonable.

Then you go on to say Cholowski should have been drafted in the second round. Based on what? You being upset that we didn't select the player you wanted? You sound like everyone who hated the Tyler Bertuzzi selection. Everyone griped and moaned that he was selected too high, but that tune changed very quickly once fans got a look at what he would likely develop into. Again, it's much too soon to call Cholowski a waste and Chychrun a stud.

It sounds like you're more upset about Holland spending his Stamkos money on Nielsen then you are about actually dumping Datsyuk's salary. If that's the case, lets talk about that. 

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

 

Haha both of you guys love jumping on 95 percent of my comments around here, but that's cool.

I'm not overrating Chychrun. He was easily one of the best defensemen in the draft. He has a very high ceiling.  Just because he hasn't made a huge impact on his team yet means nothing. He will get better quicker than Cholowski will. By the time he finds his way to Detroit, Chych will already have a few seasons under his belt. As for his size, he's not huge, but he's big enough and is known for massive hits. Pretty sure he was compared to Scott Stevens at one point. His hit total isn't high this season, but it's also a learning season for him. You can't compare him to Kronwall, Errorsson, and Smith because they're all NHL veterans, two of them with over a decade of experience. Smith can throw some big hits if he's in the mood. Kronwall used to. I'm sure once Chych gets more games in and his confidence grows, he'll become one of the most feared hitters in the league.

I didn't "cook up" anything in regards to the deal. Holland tried for a week before the draft to move Dats ghost cap hit, but couldn't get a trade done. At the draft, Arizona noticed the guy they wanted (Chychrun) was dropping and wanted to move up a few spots to snag him, so they called Holland  (apparantly they were one of the teams he talked to earlier in the week, but couldn' make a trade happen) and offered to take the empty salary if they could exchange draft spots and some other throw ins. Holland took it. At first it looked like he made a good deal, even if he lost out on Chych, because he opened up lots of cap. But what did he do with it? Resigned Helm for too much money and term, and when Stamkos wouldn't give him the time of day, he signed Nielson (who was probably the only sorta big name UFA interested in Detroit) for too much money and term. He did get Vanek for 2.6 million though, and it turned out to be a steal, but he could have found a way to sign him without moving Dats contract. So trade draft spots, lose out on the best Dman left and draft a Dman who should have gone in the second round at most. Then take your new windfall and end up spending to the cap with dumb long term contracts for vets, when you should be moving towards more youth on the team and a rebuild. There was already enough overpaid 30-plus year old vets to help the kids out.

I asked you before, you never answered....source?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

39 minutes ago, kliq said:

I asked you before, you never answered....source?

I was physically at the draft. Holland never received a phone call. The deal appeared to be done between tables via proxy. As far as I could tell Chayka and Holland never spoke. When the Wings choice came they went over their time to select, and basically a break was called. Clearly something was going down. Ironically, I made friends with the Leafsbro sitting next to me and we were discussing how lucky I was to have Chychrun sink all the way to the wings pick. I was quite happy with this and Leafsbro made more than a few comments about how lucky Detroit always is. Needless to say, but Bettman announced the trade about 2 minutes later.

Impossible to say who initiated the talks on draft day. Perhaps Chayka saw an oppurtunity to get Chychrun. Perhaps Holland saw the oppurtunity to use Chychrun as leverage. All I can say is that it definately was last second and Chychrun was probably the piece that made the deal work.

Fun fact: Despite being the yotes GM, Chayka had big fat maple leafs sticker covering the apple logo on his macbook. There's some deep loyalty there.

 

[xault 272]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:04 PM, kickazz said:

You had a different tone about it when Nielsen was signed in the summer. 

No. No I did not. You mean this post of mine in JUNE. Pretty that's very much the same tone I have now.

Or do you mean my topic about maybe going after Martin type forward, in my Lesser FA topic. Which we did, called Ott.I I don't have a single about post being happy about Nielsen. I gave it a "meh" that we needed a top 6 center. It was nothing to be happy about. I guess that means I was jumping for joy, oh boy.

But nice try.

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, xault said:

No. No I did not. You mean this post of mine in JUNE. Pretty that's very much the same tone I have now.

Or do you mean my topic about maybe going after Martin type forward, in my Lesser FA topic. Which we did, called Ott.I I don't have a single about post being happy about Nielsen. I gave it a "meh" that we needed a top 6 center. It was nothing to be happy about. I guess that means I was jumping for joy, oh boy.

But nice try.

Funny you didn't post the topic about Nielsen but did the other. I didn't say you were jumping with joy so nice try trying to make an extreme argument and spinning it lol. People were complaining the signing and you said "meh we needed a top 6 center" justifying Holland's choice basically, but here you are doing the opposite with the hindsight 20/20 glasses saying things like "our GM blew it", "the contract is crap". I'll pull the exact post out later if needed.

The point is you first justified the contract when it happened and now that the team is doing bad you're predictably doing what everyone on LGW.com does : Scapegoating Ken Holland for your frustrations and acting like you knew better than Holland all along. We're all computer desk pros. Hell even I get carried away sometimes. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by kickazz

[xault 272]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

Funny you didn't post the topic about Nielsen but did the other. I didn't say you were jumping with joy so nice try trying to make an extreme argument and spinning it lol. People were complaining the signing and you said "meh we needed a top 6 center" justifying Holland's choice basically, but here you are doing the opposite with the hindsight 20/20 glasses saying things like "our GM blew it", "the contract is crap". I'll pull the exact post out later if needed.

The point is you first justified the contract when it happened and now that the team is doing bad you're predictably doing what everyone on LGW.com does : Scapegoating Ken Holland for your frustrations and acting like you knew better than Holland all along. We're all computer desk pros. Hell even I get carried away sometimes. 

 

 

I posted the very sentence I put in the Nielsen FA topic. Which was yet again...

I feel pretty meh about the signing, We needed a top 6 center. Why do I need to post that very topic? When I already quote what I said form that topic. "funny" indeed.

You assumed my "tone" change since last summer. Which I proved easily has not. I have very few posts as it is, you can easily see that easily since JUNE, my tone has not changed at all. When it comes to this team or Nielsen or Holland. I've been "scapegoating" Ken Holland since June if you go by my post history, again my "tone" has not just since last summer.

At this point I am done proving myself about my own post history. Move on. Nice try.

Edited February 10, 2017 by xault

[kickazz 5,459]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:47 PM, xault said:

I posted the very sentence I put in the Nielsen FA topic. Which was yet again...

I feel pretty meh about the signing, We needed a top 6 center. Why do I need to post that very topic? When I already quote what I said form that topic. "funny" indeed.

You assumed my "tone" change since last summer. Which I proved easily has not. I have very few posts as it is, you can easily see that easily since JUNE, my tone has not changed at all. When it comes to this team or Nielsen or Holland. I've been "scapegoating" Ken Holland since June if you go by my post history, again my "tone" has not just since last summer.

At this point I am done proving myself about my own post history. Move on. Nice try.

"Done proving myself", "Move on", but then comes the "Nice try" instigator phrase. My point is you flip flopped on Nielsen. People were complaining about Nielsen's signing and you justified it by saying "meh, we needed a top 6 center". But months later you're talking about how the contract is all of a sudden "crap". I'm not talking about Holland and his other history or Matt Martin or whatever, I'm purely talking about Nielsen, his contract, and Holland's relation to the contract, the reason behind it and your initial response to it and your response now. You can backtrack all you want but saying "We needed a top 6 center" and then saying that the contract is crap after 5 months of hockey is exactly what it is: Hindsight bias. I mean you even said in your post on the previous page "I don't care about hindsight, but the contract is crap..". So I'm not actually pulling anything out, I'm just pointing out your own words lol. And the bigger point is - it's so easy to act like one knows better after 5 months as opposed to the day of the signing. 

What's cool is saying the contract term is crap the day of the signing (cough cough, called it) 

Edited February 14, 2017 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

On February 9, 2017 at 9:04 PM, kliq said:

I asked you before, you never answered....source?

It's alll over the place if you just Google it, but here is the nice simple explanation. If you want to dig deeper, there are more detailed ones. Holland said he and Arizona GM Chayka talked numerous times, and around pick 13 at the draft, when Arizona's target pick Chychrun was still available, Chayka contacted Holland and the deal was swung. Holland said it was a win-win with Arizona getting their draft target and moving Joe Vitale, and Holland getting cap space and another second rounder and only dropping four spots in the first round. Then when asked what he'd do with the new cap space, he just said "Hopefully spend it" "We're looking for forwards". This was when Stamkos was still a UFA. Once Stamkos didn't even give Holland a meeting, he should have held onto the cap and only spend it if he could find D help. But he plowed ahead to get a forward signed and gave Nielson too much money and term.

 

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/06/24/detroit-red-wings-2016-nhl-draft-first-round/86362374/

[kliq 3,755]

41 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

It's alll over the place if you just Google it, but here is the nice simple explanation. If you want to dig deeper, there are more detailed ones. Holland said he and Arizona GM Chayka talked numerous times, and around pick 13 at the draft, when Arizona's target pick Chychrun was still available, Chayka contacted Holland and the deal was swung. Holland said it was a win-win with Arizona getting their draft target and moving Joe Vitale, and Holland getting cap space and another second rounder and only dropping four spots in the first round. Then when asked what he'd do with the new cap space, he just said "Hopefully spend it" "We're looking for forwards". This was when Stamkos was still a UFA. Once Stamkos didn't even give Holland a meeting, he should have held onto the cap and only spend it if he could find D help. But he plowed ahead to get a forward signed and gave Nielson too much money and term.

 

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/06/24/detroit-red-wings-2016-nhl-draft-first-round/86362374/

The article says

"Holland said he talked “numerous times” to Arizona general manager John Chayka, who operates one of the few low-budget teams in the NHL. Around pick 13 Friday, when Arizona's target pick of Jakob Chychrun was still available, Chayka contacted Holland and the deal was swung."

All this tells me is that Chayka contacted Holland first the night of the draft. The way you tell it, is that Chayka laid out every aspect of the deal and Holland simply said "OK". Long story short, none of know what was said on the phone and none of know who brought what terms to the table.

So we gave up a chance to pick Jakob Chychrun to pick up Dennis Cholowski, Filip Hronek and unload Datsyuk's contract. Hopefully one of Cholowski or Hronek turn out better then Chychrun.

Edited February 14, 2017 by kliq

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

It's alll over the place if you just Google it, but here is the nice simple explanation. If you want to dig deeper, there are more detailed ones. Holland said he and Arizona GM Chayka talked numerous times, and around pick 13 at the draft, when Arizona's target pick Chychrun was still available, Chayka contacted Holland and the deal was swung. Holland said it was a win-win with Arizona getting their draft target and moving Joe Vitale, and Holland getting cap space and another second rounder and only dropping four spots in the first round. Then when asked what he'd do with the new cap space, he just said "Hopefully spend it" "We're looking for forwards". This was when Stamkos was still a UFA. Once Stamkos didn't even give Holland a meeting, he should have held onto the cap and only spend it if he could find D help. But he plowed ahead to get a forward signed and gave Nielson too much money and term.

 

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/06/24/detroit-red-wings-2016-nhl-draft-first-round/86362374/

Kliq, good luck. Clearly he's not mad about the actual trade, he's mad Neilsen was signed. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[BinMucker94 302]

8 hours ago, kliq said:

The article says

"Holland said he talked “numerous times” to Arizona general manager John Chayka, who operates one of the few low-budget teams in the NHL. Around pick 13 Friday, when Arizona's target pick of Jakob Chychrun was still available, Chayka contacted Holland and the deal was swung."

All this tells me is that Chayka contacted Holland first the night of the draft. The way you tell it, is that Chayka laid out every aspect of the deal and Holland simply said "OK". Long story short, none of know what was said on the phone and none of know who brought what terms to the table.

So we gave up a chance to pick Jakob Chychrun to pick up Dennis Cholowski, Filip Hronek and unload Datsyuk's contract. Hopefully one of Cholowski or Hronek turn out better then Chychrun.

From what I've hear Hronek is having a pretty solid year in the OHL. Close to a point per game. Hopefully he can keep building on that and crack the line up by the time guys like Mantha, Larkin and AA are in their prime. Same goes for a bunch of our younger prospects.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, BinMucker94 said:

From what I've hear Hronek is having a pretty solid year in the OHL. Close to a point per game. Hopefully he can keep building on that and crack the line up by the time guys like Mantha, Larkin and AA are in their prime. Same goes for a bunch of our younger prospects.

He's having a fantastic year. Sambrook as well. This team hasn't developed a Top 4 D-man in a very long time. It's time to start. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think we have quite a few potential top 4 guys in our system, what we need is a legit top pair guy. That's what we've been lacking for years. I'm really hoping Sambrook turns out to be a steal and can develop into a legit top 2/3 guy for us. I like Hicketts, Saarijarvi and Hronek, but they're all on the smaller side, and I don't have much confidence they'll ever develop into anything more than complimentary pieces...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think we have quite a few potential top 4 guys in our system, what we need is a legit top pair guy. That's what we've been lacking for years. I'm really hoping Sambrook turns out to be a steal and can develop into a legit top 2/3 guy for us. I like Hicketts, Saarijarvi and Hronek, but they're all on the smaller side, and I don't have much confidence they'll ever develop into anything more than complimentary pieces...

Yeah those 3 are all smaller Rafalski types, but boy all three can really move the puck up ice. Don't forget we also have Holway and Malmstrom on top of Sambrook. Both seem to be bigger and more defensively minded.

It's ridiculous how few D-men we have in the system right now with how big that need is for us.

[BinMucker94 302]

32 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think we have quite a few potential top 4 guys in our system, what we need is a legit top pair guy. That's what we've been lacking for years. I'm really hoping Sambrook turns out to be a steal and can develop into a legit top 2/3 guy for us. I like Hicketts, Saarijarvi and Hronek, but they're all on the smaller side, and I don't have much confidence they'll ever develop into anything more than complimentary pieces...

I think if one or two of these guys can work their way into the top 4 and become contributors on the power play then we'll see a huge improvement on d (if we can trade or draft a #1/2 guy). Yea they might not be big, but the way the game is played these days, you have to be able to move the puck. That's why the team now is so awful. Every dman makes terrible decisions or holds onto the puck too long.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

On 2/9/2017 at 2:05 AM, chaps80 said:

 

Too early to tell if he sucks or not. And he does play in Arizona. Hope Cholowski ducks when he sees him coming. If he makes the NHL that is.

I watch him every game since he plays at Saint Cloud state and I have season tickets to him. Start of the year he was brutal but over the last month-month and a half, he's playing so much better. Looks to finally settle into college hockey. 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah those 3 are all smaller Rafalski types, but boy all three can really move the puck up ice. Don't forget we also have Holway and Malmstrom on top of Sambrook. Both seem to be bigger and more defensively minded.

It's ridiculous how few D-men we have in the system right now with how big that need is for us.

Hronek, Hicketts, Russo, Saajarvi, Renouf, De Haas, Cholowski, Holway, Malmstrom, Sambrook, (10 - anyone else?)

Is that really few D-men in the system? (honest question - I don't really know what the usual is)

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Hronek, Hicketts, Russo, Saajarvi, Renouf, De Haas, Cholowski, Holway, Malmstrom, Sambrook, (10 - anyone else?)

Is that really few D-men in the system? (honest question - I don't really know what the usual is)

Wasn't counting Renouf and De Haas in my head mostly cause I don't think they'll ever make the team, but I could be wrong and perhaps I shouldn't have written them off.

With Malmstrom, Sambrook, and Cholowski it's too early to tell. Of the rest the only ones that seem to be of note to me are Hronek, Hicketts, Russo, and Saarijarvi. Hopefully Hronek and Saarijarvi turn out to be something, cause Hicketts and Russo look like bottom pairing guys to me at best.

To clarify, my biggest issue with our D is we haven't trained a top 4 Dman since Kronwall. Kronwall assumed a full role with the team in 06, so It's been 10 years. We've trained plenty of bottom pairing guys but that's it. A lot of our D prospects seem to be more of that.

[BringBack19 110]

31 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wasn't counting Renouf and De Haas in my head mostly cause I don't think they'll ever make the team, but I could be wrong and perhaps I shouldn't have written them off.

With Malmstrom, Sambrook, and Cholowski it's too early to tell. Of the rest the only ones that seem to be of note to me are Hronek, Hicketts, Russo, and Saarijarvi. Hopefully Hronek and Saarijarvi turn out to be something, cause Hicketts and Russo look like bottom pairing guys to me at best.

To clarify, my biggest issue with our D is we haven't trained a top 4 Dman since Kronwall. Kronwall assumed a full role with the team in 06, so It's been 10 years. We've trained plenty of bottom pairing guys but that's it. A lot of our D prospects seem to be more of that.

Is it a coaching or scouting issue in your opinion? I tend to lean towards a scouting problem, but it is probably a blend of both.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wasn't counting Renouf and De Haas in my head mostly cause I don't think they'll ever make the team, but I could be wrong and perhaps I shouldn't have written them off.

With Malmstrom, Sambrook, and Cholowski it's too early to tell. Of the rest the only ones that seem to be of note to me are Hronek, Hicketts, Russo, and Saarijarvi. Hopefully Hronek and Saarijarvi turn out to be something, cause Hicketts and Russo look like bottom pairing guys to me at best.

To clarify, my biggest issue with our D is we haven't trained a top 4 Dman since Kronwall. Kronwall assumed a full role with the team in 06, so It's been 10 years. We've trained plenty of bottom pairing guys but that's it. A lot of our D prospects seem to be more of that.

I agree that we've had trouble developing Dmen and that's a big problem - I was just questioning whether the number of Dmen was a lot. It does seem like we've drafted a lot of D men recently.

The only top 4 guy we've trained since Kronwall is arguebly Quincey. He's been in the top 4 everywhere he's played I think (though I don't know how or where he's playing with the Devils). Not a great #4 guy, but I think he makes the cut.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, BringBack19 said:

Is it a coaching or scouting issue in your opinion? I tend to lean towards a scouting problem, but it is probably a blend of both.

Scouting. Wheaton, McNulty, McKee... lots of wasted picks at defense. 

1 hour ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

I agree that we've had trouble developing Dmen and that's a big problem - I was just questioning whether the number of Dmen was a lot. It does seem like we've drafted a lot of D men recently.

The only top 4 guy we've trained since Kronwall is arguebly Quincey. He's been in the top 4 everywhere he's played I think (though I don't know how or where he's playing with the Devils). Not a great #4 guy, but I think he makes the cut.

True. Q is weird. I think injuries slowed him down right before he got to us. He was LA's most leaned on D-man outside of Doughty, and was Colorado's top D-man for at least 1 season before the injuries happened. Then he gets here and is complete garbage. NJD has been using him in the #6 spot and he's been scratched a bit this season too.

Although the Avs and Kings were pretty bad on the blueline those years I think.