Marchenko Waived

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I think there's inherent bias in your post. Both Jurco and Marchenko are similar in age yet somehow you ruled Marchenko out and think he sucks but with Jurco you're saying he "does have potential" as if it's a fact. We don't know if that's a fact. Just like we don't know how Marchenko will do under Babcock. For all we know Jurco could end up in Europe in 2 years. A lot of the knowledgeable posters (at least 3-4 of them) here thought Pulkinnen would be a stud, moreso because they we're rooting for him to be rather than actually looking at it critically. That troll number9 always said the "one-trick pony" wouldn't go far. I wonder what he thinks now as he watches this forum as a banned member  (Side tracked there for a bit) 

There's bias in everyone's post. What's your point? This is a message board after all... I would say almost every poster here states his or her opinion as fact more often than not. Don't take it so literal... It's well documented that I like Jurco, and yes it's my belief that he has a ton of untapped potential. Marchenko sucks. My opinion. He was the right one to waive because he's the worst of the 9 defensemen we had on our active roster. My opinion...

[kliq 3,755]

I obviously wish we could have gotten something for him, but sometimes value isn't there. 

I knew if he got claimed people here would go nuts. But if Frk and Pulk tought us anything, it's that some players just don't have value. I really don't think marchenko gets us anything.

Edited February 4, 2017 by kliq

[poel 28]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

There's bias in everyone's post. What's your point? This is a message board after all... I would say almost every poster here states his or her opinion as fact more often than not. Don't take it so literal... It's well documented that I like Jurco, and yes it's my belief that he has a ton of untapped potential. Marchenko sucks. My opinion. He was the right one to waive because he's the worst of the 9 defensemen we had on our active roster. My opinion...

You can't be serious about that. The last time Sproul played, he had multiple giveaways in every single shift he played. He managed to go -2 in only 7mins and both goals were purely on him. He wasn't much better before that. Why wouldn't you waive him? 

Ericsson probably has more own goals than points. He's ridiculously bad. Jensen is a career AHLer. Hasn't been all that bad but plays easy 3rd pairing minutes only. Our defense is so bad that I'd just play the solid guys who at least don't log a giveaway per shift. The way this group played so far, Lashoff or Marchenko should be in. Not gonna do much offensively but at least good enough to play some solid minutes.

[kickazz 5,459]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

There's bias in everyone's post. What's your point? This is a message board after all... I would say almost every poster here states his or her opinion as fact more often than not. Don't take it so literal... It's well documented that I like Jurco, and yes it's my belief that he has a ton of untapped potential. Marchenko sucks. My opinion. He was the right one to waive because he's the worst of the 9 defensemen we had on our active roster. My opinion...

Alright so it is opinion. I was clarifying that because you were stating things about players etc as if they're facts, and they're not. Not yet. 

[poel 28]

2 minutes ago, kliq said:

I obviously wish we could have gotten him for something, but sometimes value isn't there. 

I knew if he got claimed people here would go nuts. But if Frk and Pulk tought us anything, it's that some players just don't have value. I really don't think marchenko gets us anything.

I don't even care if he has value or not. He makes less mistakes than at least 50% of our defense and therefore should be dressing for the Wings.

[kliq 3,755]

I obviously wish we could have gotten something for him, but sometimes value isn't there. 

I knew if he got claimed people here would go nuts. But if Frk and Pulk tought us anything, it's that some players just don't have value. I really don't think marchenko gets us anything. I know those who hate holland will use anything as a reason to complain about him, but lets face it, any other GM makes this moves and nobody gives a s***.

Edited February 4, 2017 by kliq

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, poel said:

You can't be serious about that. The last time Sproul played, he had multiple giveaways in every single shift he played. He managed to go -2 in only 7mins and both goals were purely on him. He wasn't much better before that. Why wouldn't you waive him? 

Ericsson probably has more own goals than points. He's ridiculously bad. Jensen is a career AHLer. Hasn't been all that bad but plays easy 3rd pairing minutes only. Our defense is so bad that I'd just play the solid guys who at least don't log a giveaway per shift. The way this group played so far, Lashoff or Marchenko should be in. Not gonna do much offensively but at least good enough to play some solid minutes.

A rookie had multiple giveaways in one game over a month ago? Seriously? He obviously should have been waived that night. The bolded explains a lot though. Thanks for that...

 

12 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Alright so it is opinion. I was clarifying that because you were stating things about players etc as if they're facts, and they're not. Not yet. 

So does every single other poster... I can point to at least 20 in this thread alone where people spoke their opinion as if it were fact...

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

Interesting move by the Leafs. Seems to me that Shanny and Babs are gambling. Or that they just need some defensive depth and Marchenko is exactly that and comes at a cheap price.

 

I'm not upset. Defenseman like Marchenko grow by the dozens. And while there is some value in the position of the 7th or 8th defenseman in a team it is certainly not enough to get a pick. It was also the right move to waive him. Guys would have been all over Holland if Jensen or Sproul would have been waived and rightfully so. Marchenko had his chance here, he didn't use it. If you want a franchise that holds players accountable to their performance then you should embrace that move. I wish Marchenko all the luck with the Leafs. In my opinion he will need all the luck he can get.

 

What this move also indicates: At least Holland seems to like what Sproul brings to the table. Otherwise he probably would have been the one who would have gotten waived.

 

 

[kliq 3,755]

21 minutes ago, poel said:

I don't even care if he has value or not. He makes less mistakes than at least 50% of our defense and therefore should be dressing for the Wings.

I'm looking big picture.....I see Sproul in the picture, I don't see Marchenko.

[poel 28]

15 minutes ago, kliq said:

I'm looking big picture.....I see Sproul in the picture, I don't see Marchenko.

Let's not act like Sproul would be a talent or something like that. Only one year younger than Marchenko but several years behind him in terms of development. Marchenko has been playing solid minutes for years now. Not gonna wow you offensively but if I watch our defense I couldn't care less.

Sproul was terrible in just about every single shift he played at this level. Don't know why people are so obsessed...where does the obsession come from? Is that a Sheahan type of thing? Yet another talent about to break out...

[kickazz 5,459]

I really don't like any of our defense besides Green. And I honestly mean that. Aside from Green I thought Kronwall was a solid D-man up until 2014. I don't know but I feel like our standards have decreased as a fan base. A lot of our D-men couldn't crack line-ups on good teams. We need to draft a couple of good D-man in higher rounds (it doesn't have to be the 3rd pick, but something in the top 20 - ish) for a couple of years imo. 

None of Smith, Sproul, XO, Jensen, Ericsson, Kronwall, DK are good enough for me.

Jensen and XO I would take as a 3rd pair (also very cheap) but I think our biggest holes are those 3 spots in the top 4 and none of the guys on this team can fill that void. If DK doesn't improve by next year, I'd look to move him. He's far to expensive to be playing this terribly. Sproul, I'm not sure. He screws up a decent amount (nowhere like Brenden Smith did for years) but has some rare moments of shining. 

If we're seriously considering a re-build then most of our guys need to be parted with or waived in the next few years and bring in some young D-men from the first round for a couple of years. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by kickazz

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

1 minute ago, poel said:

Let's not act like Sproul would be a talent or something like that. Only one year younger than Marchenko but several years behind him in terms of development. Marchenko has been playing solid minutes for years now. Not gonna wow you offensively but if I watch our defense I couldn't care less.

Sproul was terrible in just about every single shift he played at this level. Don't know why people are so obsessed...where does the obsession come from? Is that a Sheahan type of thing? Yet another talent about to break out...

That is simply not true. There were whole games where he was one of our best or at least far from being our worst.

Keeping Sproul is a question of skill ceiling. Marchenko has shown no sign that he will be more than a 7th, at best bottom pair defender. Sproul shows some promise in a more offensive role and might turn out as a decent 2nd pair defender,  maybe even more. Worst case he will end up being a bottom pair defender like Marchenko. Would I take Marchenko over Sproul if the Wings were making run for the Cup this year ? Probably yes, because at present he is the more reliable one. But the Wings are more or less rebuilding. And in a few years Sproul will probably be way better than Marchenko will ever be.

And even if not: There is nothing lost here. If you waived Sproul over Marchenko you'd still end up with a bottom pair defender. With Kennys move you at least keep the chance to end up with something better.

 

[chaps80 1,591]

Is it just me, or does it seem like the Wings are forced into putting guys on waivers more than other teams are?

 It's like Kenny has two crappy cars and can't keep one. One is an old AMC. Gremlin that has way too many miles on it, runs like s***, and breaks down all the time. And the other is a newer Chevy Aveo that still runs great, has pretty low miles, and gets him by. Both cars suck equally, but the Aveo is clearly the one that will serve him best going forward. But he kept the Gremlin.

[puckbags 863]

2 hours ago, poel said:

Jensen is playing 3rd pairing minutes. All other defenders get more defensive zone starts and harder competition.

He's still with the Wings because we don't have a better option. Sproul and Ericsson are below terrible.

I will repeat, have you been watching. He's a great skater, has moved the puck well, makes very few mistakes and he's played 15 games in the NHL.  If he's as bad as you say he is they would've sent him back down at the 9 game mark. He was playing too good to send back down. I don't care if he's been playing 1st or 3rd pairing minutes. He has been very good. If you can't see that you clearly aren't watching the same games. His play alone forced them to make other difficult roster moves like waiving Marchenko. If he had been playing terrible they send him down at the 9 game mark ( he doesn't have to go through waivers) and they play Marchenko or Sproul. 

[poel 28]

1 hour ago, puckbags said:

I will repeat, have you been watching. He's a great skater, has moved the puck well, makes very few mistakes and he's played 15 games in the NHL.  If he's as bad as you say he is they would've sent him back down at the 9 game mark. He was playing too good to send back down. I don't care if he's been playing 1st or 3rd pairing minutes. He has been very good. If you can't see that you clearly aren't watching the same games. His play alone forced them to make other difficult roster moves like waiving Marchenko. If he had been playing terrible they send him down at the 9 game mark ( he doesn't have to go through waivers) and they play Marchenko or Sproul. 

Sorry, but this is hilarious. Play Ericsson like they play Jensen and he'll look like an all star. I can only repeat. Easiest competition, few minutes and only about 20% defensive zone starts. It doesn't get any easier. Shows you coaches don't trust him all that much. He has looked okay but that doesn't change his status of a career AHLer. If we only had a half decent defenseman on the roster, Jensen would be back in Grand Rapids. And make no mistake...there's no way somebody would claim him. Unlike Marchenko, he's no proven NHLer.

He was playing okay and that's what kept him on the roster. Who else should they have played? There was only Sproul available. Everybody else was injured...

Edited February 5, 2017 by poel

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

5 hours ago, chaps80 said:

And the Wings is? The Leafs have 3-4 defencemen with over 10 points. Gardiner with 23, Zaitsev with 21, Reilly with 17, Hunwick with 11. The Wings have 1. Green with 24 points. Errorsson is second with 9.

And if Green is gone at the deadline, scary s***.

 

Points don't mean anything. Toronto scores a ton of goals but allows just as much, mostly due to the defense. There defense points are inflated because of Marner, Mathews, Kadri and Nylander. Ask more Leaf fans and they will tell you there defense isn't very good.

[poel 28]

19 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

Points don't mean anything. Toronto scores a ton of goals but allows just as much, mostly due to the defense. There defense points are inflated because of Marner, Mathews, Kadri and Nylander. Ask more Leaf fans and they will tell you there defense isn't very good.

No, it isn't. But, sadly, still better than ours...

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

Points don't mean anything. Toronto scores a ton of goals but allows just as much, mostly due to the defense. There defense points are inflated because of Marner, Mathews, Kadri and Nylander. Ask more Leaf fans and they will tell you there defense isn't very good.

Points don't mean anything? Maybe if DD and Errorsson put up more points the Wings would have a few more wins. The season is 3/4 over and there's ONE Dman on the team with over ten points. That's horrible. And it's not like their defensive ability makes up for it. I'd take the Leafs D (or most of it) over the Wings D. 

Wow. When i'm saying that seriously, it really shows how fall this team has fallen.

[poel 28]

46 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Points don't mean anything? Maybe if DD and Errorsson put up more points the Wings would have a few more wins. The season is 3/4 over and there's ONE Dman on the team with over ten points. That's horrible. And it's not like their defensive ability makes up for it. I'd take the Leafs D (or most of it) over the Wings D. 

Wow. When i'm saying that seriously, it really shows how fall this team has fallen.

DeKeyser is good but he can't do it all alone. Not his best season but still our best defender against the puck. Plays the harderst minutes now...probably just takes time to adjust.

I'd rather have Ericsson with 0 points and 0 own goals. His points really don't help if he scores an own goal every other game.

 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

If Jensen is as bad as poel is stating,  then it would've been him waived and not Marchenko. If Marchenko was better than 50% of our D, he'd still be here. I criticize Holland a TON, but he didn't just fall out of the idiot tree. He would waive the player that impacts this team the least.

I still wish it was Ericsson, but the money savings isn't there. 

[mackel 679]

DD on a good team is a solid  #3, occasional, passable #2.  The Wings have been expecting too much from our defenders the last few years.  Kronwall is the poster boy for this, he peaked as a protected #2 behind arguably the best defenceman of all time.  Since Lids retired Kronwall has been elevated to #1, a position beyond his ability in his prime, let alone now.

[poel 28]

52 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

If Jensen is as bad as poel is stating,  then it would've been him waived and not Marchenko. If Marchenko was better than 50% of our D, he'd still be here. I criticize Holland a TON, but he didn't just fall out of the idiot tree. He would waive the player that impacts this team the least.

I still wish it was Ericsson, but the money savings isn't there. 

I never called Jensen "bad". All I'm saying is that he's a career AHLer and he'd be still playing there hadn't it been for our terrible defense. He's no young prospect anymore and yet only played a handful of games in the NHL. Even if you, for some funny reason, thought that he's better than Marchenko, it would have been easier to just waive Jensen. No way he would have been claimed. They probably waived Marchenko to get cap relief. Time will tell but to me it's still a bad decision.

Edited February 5, 2017 by poel

[kliq 3,755]

7 hours ago, poel said:

Let's not act like Sproul would be a talent or something like that. Only one year younger than Marchenko but several years behind him in terms of development. Marchenko has been playing solid minutes for years now. Not gonna wow you offensively but if I watch our defense I couldn't care less.

Sproul was terrible in just about every single shift he played at this level. Don't know why people are so obsessed...where does the obsession come from? Is that a Sheahan type of thing? Yet another talent about to break out...

Sproul is a right handed shot, and has offensive upside which is something we do not have a lot of in our system. He likely has a ceiling of top 4. Marchenko is an ok defensive d-man with no offensive upside and likely has a ceiling of top 6. I'm not obsessed with Sproul, I just see something in him that I don't see in many others in our system.

[kliq 3,755]

Not 100% sure if this is true or not, but I read that Marchenko and Leafs D-man Nikita Zaitsev were paired together at the world cup. Maybe Babs wants these two back together.

 

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

DD on a good team is a solid  #3, occasional, passable #2.  The Wings have been expecting too much from our defenders the last few years.  Kronwall is the poster boy for this, he peaked as a protected #2 behind arguably the best defenceman of all time.  Since Lids retired Kronwall has been elevated to #1, a position beyond his ability in his prime, let alone now.

I agree about Dekeyser but Kronwall was one of the top 10 or 15 D in the NHL in his prime. They had two #1 caliber guys, one of them just happened to be one of the best ever and that clouds fans expectations of what a real #1 is. Now he's a shell of himself and should probably retire.

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