kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Btw I didn't say age was a limiting factor. You can pick younger Ott vs. Glendening for your argument. The question is simply which player you would rather have in a cup run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, kickazz said: Btw I didn't say age was a limiting factor. You can pick younger Ott vs. Glendening for your argument. The question is simply which player you would rather have in a cup run. In that case it's Ott hands down, everytime, ten times outta ten. Prime Ott > Any Glendening (including future) 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, DickieDunn said: 4% is pretty significant. That is true, I should take that comment back. I didn't say it the way I meant to - I just meant that Glendening is also a good faceoff guy. Our best are Ott followed by Nielsen then Glendening. The point I was trying to make is that Ott is a winger and won't take that many draws. Say there's 20 draws, Glendening might take 4 or 5 as one of the 4 centermen. So you have his 54.4% abilities for just under quarter of the draws. Ott's quota is maybe 1 of 20 draws. Probably less, but I don't want to figure out the math for that. So for a team, it may be nice to have Ott for faceoffs, but if it's at the expense of one of your good faceoff men that takes a significant number of draws, then I think it would actually hurt the team. Sheahan would have to take draws to replace Glendening and he's at 51.2% or maybe Larkin with his 44%. Hypothetically, then you have 51.2% for 4-5 draws and Ott's 58.2 for his 1 draw. The team would be better off for faceoffs with 54.4% for 5 draws. If Ott were still able to handle center than it wouldn't be an issue and he could be 4th line center and I would agree with you both that face-offs are a big advantage for him over Glen. Anyway, I didn't mean to get into this discussion. I like Ott a lot and was pleasantly surprised at what he brings despite not liking the signing when it was made. Edit: Okay now with age switch, that takes away the consideration I was talking about. With younger Ott there's no discussion. Ott has scored as much as 22 and as many points as 46. Don't think Glendening will ever be able to contribute like that. Edited February 20, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Ott played center this season for quite a few games. We just happen to have a lot of 4th line centers between Sheahan, Ott and Glendening. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/11/17/detroit-red-wings-steve-ott/94028020/ Edited February 20, 2017 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 For reference Ott has taken 175 FOs in 41 GP. 58.3% success rate. Glendog has taken 478 FOs in 59 GP. 54.4% success rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, kickazz said: How crazy is it that the Red Wings are officially "that team" that fights and out-hits opponents but can't score or win games. Back in mid-2000s people always gave the Wings crap for being too soft yet always winning. Tables have turned. We're 10th in the league in fights lol. As a comparison we were 30th in the league in 2008. I think the last time we were top 10 in fights was 93-94 season. Doesn't seem like we've had that many fights, though. If we're really 10th, that just shows you how watered down the physicality of the game has become. 2 F.Michael and chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said: Doesn't seem like we've had that many fights, though. If we're really 10th, that just shows you how watered down the physicality of the game has become. Comparing to other teams we have but comparing to previous era it's really less. It's about half. The highest team used to have around 80+ fights a year now it's usually around 40 a year. In the 90s it was around 140+ fights a year. Edited February 20, 2017 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, kickazz said: If you tally up the number of minutes they're actually played then Ott has the higher rate of faceoffs taken. If minutes and games played were equal he'd end up taking more. To me that means Blash actually uses Ott over Glendening mathematically speaking when both are on ice. Good point. Ott = 647 shifts, 430.09 Total ice time, average 10:30 per game. Glendog = 1,216 shifts, 803.17 Total ice time, average 13:36 per game Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Good point. Ott = 647 shifts, 430.09 Total ice time, average 10:30 per game. Glendog = 1,216 shifts, 803.17 Total ice time, average 13:36 per game No I think I'm wrong. Glendening still has a higher faceoff taken rate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Okay. I must have missed Ott at center this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said: Okay. I must have missed Ott at center this season. It was when Bertuzzi was playing and Helm got injured 1 PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, kickazz said: No I think I'm wrong. Glendening still has a higher faceoff taken rate. Glendening is taking 0.39 FOs per shift Ott is taking 0.27 FOs per shift dare we figure out how long their average shifts are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Glendening is taking 0.39 FOs per shift Ott is taking 0.27 FOs per shift dare we figure out how long their average shifts are? Lol, way too lazy and uninteresting even for me. (someone who always posts s*** up) Edited February 20, 2017 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,474 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Glendening is taking 0.39 FOs per shift Ott is taking 0.27 FOs per shift dare we figure out how long their average shifts are? 39.88 seconds average for ott, 39.62 for glendog 1 ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 Glendening is a border line NHL player who should never play more than 10 minutes a game. Wings coaches loved him though and overuse him, making Hollland believe he's better than he is. Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DickieDunn said: Glendening is a border line NHL player who should never play more than 10 minutes a game. Wings coaches loved him though and overuse him, making Hollland believe he's better than he is. Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk Actually, they've gotten slightly better about his usage. He plays around 13.5 minutes a game this season. Down from 14.5 minutes a game last season. I'd like that to be tracked down to around 11-12 and I wouldn't have any more issues about his usage. Furthermore if they're going to use him in critical situations such as 1 minute left in the game with a 1 goal lead and the opposing teams goalie pulled; to me it's not a big deal as long as a top 6 guy is on ice to support his lack of offense (someone like Nielsen or Zetterberg or better yet someone speedy like AA). The biggest issue last year was when they'd use Glendening for those situations along with Miller which ended up causing a lot of game-tying goals. Go figure. Edited February 20, 2017 by kickazz 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 21 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said: I'm not real sure why Glendenning is on this team let alone signed to the contract he's on. Ott every time. ^ THIS! Ott has much more playoff experience. 45 playoff games in his career with Dallas and St.Louis. Reached the West Finals with the Stars in 2008, and the Blues last season. Plus he's great on faceoffs, plays physical, and brings veteran leadership. Glendening brings..not much. At least he's 3 goals up on Sheahan though. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, chaps80 said: ^ THIS! Ott has much more playoff experience. 45 playoff games in his career with Dallas and St.Louis. Reached the West Finals with the Stars in 2008, and the Blues last season. Plus he's great on faceoffs, plays physical, and brings veteran leadership. Glendening brings..not much. At least he's 3 goals up on Sheahan though. Lol There was a story last year Backes told. He was sick in I believe the 2nd round, and if he couldn't play Ott was going to get his spot. With that being the case, Ott was right there to help Backes feel better. Long story short, Ott chose what was best for the team over what was best for himself. 2 chaps80 and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, kliq said: There was a story last year Backes told. He was sick in I believe the 2nd round, and if he couldn't play Ott was going to get his spot. With that being the case, Ott was right there to help Backes feel better. Long story short, Ott chose what was best for the team over what was best for himself. 2 krsmith17 and kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted February 21, 2017 There's a reason Vanek and Ott were co-captains of the Sabres together. Vanek was far and away their best player, but had zero leadership ability. Ott was far from their best player, but had a ton of character. Guy jaws a lot and can rack up pims, but behind the scenes he's a big softie Cleary type. 2 krsmith17 and kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites