Brendan Smith traded to Rangers for 2nd (2018) and 3rd (2017) Round Draft Picks

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

No, you're not wrong at all, and I agree with pretty much everything you said here. No one's saying we can't rehash this. I don't mind talking about it at all. I just hate the "told ya so" attitude by some. It's childish, but then again, some users here are very childish, so whatever. I was completely wrong with the projection of Smith and Jurco, and I'm fine with that. But when I say that I think that was in large part due to the way they were handled at the beginning of their careers, and people say, "No, you're wrong. Our organization is perfect." That's what bothers the s*** out of me.

I did say that Smith had top 4 potential, and he absolutely did. To say otherwise, is false. I also said that at one point in his career (didn't last long...) he was a top 4 puck moving defenseman, and I stand by that. You may disagree, and that's fine. What do I think of Smith at this point in his career? I think he's a guy that had all the tools, but was never able to put it all together. Was that all on him, or was it partially due to the way he was handled as an up and comer? I still think he was mishandled a little at the beginning of his pro career. Again, you may disagree, and that's totally fine. Same goes for Jurco. A kid with all the talent, but was never able to put it all together. I think Jurco not only had top 9 potential, but top 6 potential. Unfortunately for him, like Smith, he struggled, and lost all confidence in his game. Trying to completely change his game probably didn't help matters much though. So anyway, to answer your question, Smith is a bottom pair defenseman. Jurco may get another shot in the NHL, but will probably play another year in the AHL and head back over seas, where he will be a middle 6 forward.

We won both of those trades. Good on Ken Holland.

It's not revisiting arguments that is trolling, it's the way you go about it that people consider trolling. The bolded - Case in point.

Again, I was wrong in their projection, but you can't say I'm wrong about a hypothetical, something no one will ever know for sure, aka, the reason they failed to reach their ceilings... There are countless factors that go into whether or not a player makes the NHL, and what kind of career they have if they do make it. One major factor in that in my opinion, is coaching. Another one would definitely be mental toughness. Two key factors as to why neither of the aforementioned carved out the type of careers that myself and so many others thought they would. The skill was there, therefore the potential was there. Unfortunately for us, they failed miserably...

I'd once again say MOVE ON, but I'm sure you'll try your damndest to spin this to keep the argument going...

Sure, but that begs the question, how was he mishandled?

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Sure, but that begs the question, how was he mishandled?

Well he had a great rookie season in Grand Rapids, and an even better sophomore season, finishing top 20 in defensive scoring, while playing less games than virtually everyone ahead of him. He finally got called up in November for injured Ian White, in which he played very well, and put up 2 assists in a short 3 game stint. Got sent down again when White returned to the lineup, and put up 10 goals, 27 points in 36 games for the Griffins. He then got called up for the rest of the season in late February, where he put up a goal and 5 points in 11 games, while playing very good hockey paired with Kronwall. The sky was the limit at this point in time.

The following season he once again started in Grand Rapids (probably shouldn't have), despite being better than White, Lashoff, Quincey, Huskins, or whoever else was ahead of him. That may have shook him a little, but still managed to put up 5 goals, 20 points in 32 games for the Griffins. He got called up for the first time in January, to one of the worst defense corps we've seen in recent memory. This is the first year after Lidstrom retired and we had Kronwall, Ericsson, White, Kindl, Smith, Quincey, Lasoff, Colaiacovo. Smith wasn't given much help coming into that mess.

I don't think it helped at all when Babcock tried to mold him into a defensive defenseman, playing penalty kill rather than power-play. This organization did have a tendency to make players think defense first, rather than allowing them to play to their strengths. If we kept our 2004 1st round pick, and taken Mike Green, maybe he would have gone the way of Smith years ago. Maybe not, but I highly doubt he would have had those 70+ point seasons.

Maybe Smith would have turned out better if he were given a year or two to learn from Lidstrom. Maybe he would have been better if he were drafted by another team. Maybe he would have sucked more if either of these things happened. We have no idea. This is all conjecture, but for me, I don't believe a kid as skilled as Smith was destined to fail, having absolutely nothing to do with his surroundings. I've admitted in the past that he didn't do himself any favors, but I think the environment he was placed in, had a lot to do with why he turned out the way he did.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 2017-11-19 at 10:04 AM, krsmith17 said:

You actually expect people to come on letsgowings.com and criticize Gorton / Vigneault on how they are handling Brendan Smith? Get real. I was never a fan of Kindl. Always thought he sucked. You didn't see me go to the "Kindl traded" thread every time he had a bad stretch of games, or was healthy scratched, just to rub it in the people's faces that one time had high expectation for him. You know why? Because the day we traded Kindl, I said best of luck in Florida, or wherever else he may end up, and didn't care if he put up a 30 point season, or got demoted to Springfield. The same goes for Smith, or any other player we trade. If we trade Mrazek tomorrow and he ends up a complete bust, I'm not going to rub it in @chaps80 face for the next several years. I'm sure you will though...

We won the Smith trade. I'm happy with the return. Smith isn't playing up to what I expected out of him. Anything else? 

Off topic in this thread but figured I’d reply. Haha I dunno how the Mrazek thing will turn out. Howard is getting the bulk of the starts. Not that he shouldn’t, he’s been great. Petr gets one here and there. Hard to get in a groove like that. Seems when he gets a start, even if it’s a win, he sits the next game. Think he played two in a row once? Howard can lose a game and still get the next start. 

Seems like Blash has his mind made up who he’s riding at this point. Unless Howard is injured or his play declines, that’s probably how the season plays out, with Petr getting one of five starts, unless it’s a back to back situation. 

I dunno what Holland’s plans for him will be in the off-season if he doesn’t get in many games. Still RFA, so i’d guess resign for less or trade, but might not get much for him. I can’t see a trade happening while he’s still at his current salary and barely playing.

Seasons still young though, things can change in goal I guess.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 11/19/2017 at 7:04 AM, krsmith17 said:

You actually expect people to come on letsgowings.com and criticize Gorton / Vigneault on how they are handling Brendan Smith? Get real. I was never a fan of Kindl. Always thought he sucked. You didn't see me go to the "Kindl traded" thread every time he had a bad stretch of games, or was healthy scratched, just to rub it in the people's faces that one time had high expectation for him. You know why? Because the day we traded Kindl, I said best of luck in Florida, or wherever else he may end up, and didn't care if he put up a 30 point season, or got demoted to Springfield. The same goes for Smith, or any other player we trade. If we trade Mrazek tomorrow and he ends up a complete bust, I'm not going to rub it in @chaps80 face for the next several years. I'm sure you will though...

We won the Smith trade. I'm happy with the return. Smith isn't playing up to what I expected out of him. Anything else? 

Didn't even notice this part. Are you kidding me?? Do you even know how many people including the guy you mentioned (chaps) have rubbed Jimmy Howard's failures in peoples faces on this board? For literally years. And you know I'll go start pulling people's post history too if it came down to it. That's EXACTLY why people like me and CRL or whoever give it back to people in the board.

The same exact s*** happened with Zetterberg in 2016 when this board wanted his head and I was probably the only one defending him. And as soon as Z started doing well your godam right I rubbed it in people's face. Z is my boy and all the ******* haters better recognize they were wrong for putting him down on an off year. In fact, you know who else rubbed it in peoples faces? Z's own teammates. Go watch Abdelkader's, Kronwall's interviews from last season. 

Now in regards to Smith. I didn't rub anything in your face. I said "Krsmith won't like hearing about this (in regards to Smith getting benched). And you responded with a passive-aggresive post saying "Move on". Nothing in my first post took a shot at you or rubbed anything in your face but for some reason you felt it necessary to respond passive-aggressively (which is an immature defense mechanism fyi). To which I of course responded with a more flaming tone and then we kept going back and forth etc. 

So yeah, we're both immature. It's cool. Being mature is boring anyways. But no you're not any more special or more mature lol. And that's okay because I still love you. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Didn't even notice this part. Are you kidding me?? Do you even know how many people including the guy you mentioned (chaps) have rubbed Jimmy Howard's failures in peoples faces on this board? For literally years. And you know I'll go start pulling people's post history too if it came down to it. That's EXACTLY why people like me and CRL or whoever give it back to people in the board.

The same exact s*** happened with Zetterberg in 2016 when this board wanted his head and I was probably the only one defending him. And as soon as Z started doing well your godam right I rubbed it in people's face. Z is my boy and all the ******* haters better recognize they were wrong for putting him down on an off year. In fact, you know who else rubbed it in peoples faces? Z's own teammates. Go watch Abdelkader's, Kronwall's interviews from last season. 

Now in regards to Smith. I didn't necessarily directly rub anything in your face. I basically said that you wouldn't like hearing what happened (in regards to Smith getting benched), of course it continued from then onwards and started getting more towards flaming because for some reason. But it didn't necessarily have to go that way. You felt trolled and so it turned into a back and forth. Not my problem. 

Whatever you say man...

[kickazz 5,459]

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

It's not revisiting arguments that is trolling, it's the way you go about it that people consider trolling. The bolded - Case in point.

Um I don't know how to break it to you bro, but that post was a blatantly purposeful troll post lol. Purposeful.

Lots of sarcasm in it. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think it helped at all when Babcock tried to mold him into a defensive defenseman, playing penalty kill rather than power-play. 

Smith had one of the most offensive starts in his time with Babcock. Just because he was put on PK doesn't make him an defensive defenseman. Lots of offensive defenseman play on the PK. For example Erik Karlsson averagers 2 min per game on PK. Not sure where you're getting these theories from, but Babcock deployed Smith more often offensively than anyone. Far as PP, Smith just wasn't good enough to play on there. Kronwall, Green were simply better. 

Again you're spinning a lot of it because Smith's your boy which is whatever I guess and pointless to argue about. You can victimize Smith but, he just wasn't that good and was developed fine. I mean it's not like Smith went to NYR and sucked, in fact he did really well in the playoffs and they were raving about him. Back then there were no complaints about development, but now that he's declining, supposedly it must have been development...? 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't Wings. 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

On 19/11/2017 at 4:13 PM, DickieDunn said:

I think that if Jurco was allowed to be an offensive player from day 1 he would be at least a 3rd line scorer.  Coaching destroyed any confidence he had  But we'll never know.

You're wrong.

On 19/11/2017 at 8:15 PM, kliq said:

Ya guys lets just move on from Jurco and Smith.

I think its fair to say that both came into the organization with potential, and both never lived up to it. You can argue that some of that is on the coaching/management, you can argue that some of that is on the player. Neither would be incorrect.

IMO, I would say Jurco was really not given the opportunity, while Smith just never took his game to the next level.

No, that's where you're wrong. Only one can be correct. It's all on the player. It has nothing to do with coaching management.

On 20/11/2017 at 12:21 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I'll take the blame for it. I kinda started it with my post. I certainly wasn't trying to troll anyone with it. I was poking fun at myself as much as anyone cuz I too thought Smith and Jurco were better. That said, I agree with you. It can be both. Smith and Jurco just weren't that good to begin with, and they were developed/used poorly. It doesn't  have to be one or the other.

You sir, couldn't be more wrong.

 

I hope you all learned a valuable lesson here. Things are always black and white, and kickazz is always right. Smith sucks, he was destined to suck, and there was absolutely no avoiding the suckage.

[Dabura 12,207]

S(m)ith Lord

[Dabura 12,207]

16 minutes ago, Dabura said:

S(m)ith Lord

Only a S(m)ith deals in absolutes.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

On 18/11/2017 at 9:05 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Na, hez literally always sucked. He played well with Lidstrom one time in 2000 whatever and fans stroked themselves for 5 years about it. Dude is garbage, and those who supported him are conveniently hiding now.

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

... why he turned out the way he did.

Super sorry if I harsh your buzz with my mean ol' fact checkins, but 12-13 was the lockout year, and B.Smitty was on the rost from day uno. Afraid you can't use that as an examps o' misuse.

Using him as a 5th/6th PK'zer, I agree was totes inappropes, but in the Wings defense the only dude what regularly did less pkzing were Kindl. And no doubt bringing him into the environ of a declining team didn't help, least as oppo to an awesomesaucey team what as would make anyone better. Not super-duper positive that's a valid criticizz though, but yeah.

Lack of PP time defs straightup poundin nail on head, yo. At times in them crucial formative years, both Dekewad and KtotheFQ-uincy got sweet PP mins ahead of Brendo. Mic drop.

 

28 minutes ago, kickazz said:

... it must have been development...? 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't Wings. 

Can you say that the environment he was brought up in was the best conceivable situation for BSmoover? I think you can't. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:13 AM, krsmith17 said:

Well he had a great rookie season in Grand Rapids, and an even better sophomore season, finishing top 20 in defensive scoring, while playing less games than virtually everyone ahead of him. He finally got called up in November for injured Ian White, in which he played very well, and put up 2 assists in a short 3 game stint. Got sent down again when White returned to the lineup, and put up 10 goals, 27 points in 36 games for the Griffins. He then got called up for the rest of the season in late February, where he put up a goal and 5 points in 11 games, while playing very good hockey paired with Kronwall. The sky was the limit at this point in time.

The following season he once again started in Grand Rapids (probably shouldn't have), despite being better than White, Lashoff, Quincey, Huskins, or whoever else was ahead of him. That may have shook him a little, but still managed to put up 5 goals, 20 points in 32 games for the Griffins. He got called up for the first time in January, to one of the worst defense corps we've seen in recent memory. This is the first year after Lidstrom retired and we had Kronwall, Ericsson, White, Kindl, Smith, Quincey, Lasoff, Colaiacovo. Smith wasn't given much help coming into that mess.

I don't think it helped at all when Babcock tried to mold him into a defensive defenseman, playing penalty kill rather than power-play. This organization did have a tendency to make players think defense first, rather than allowing them to play to their strengths. If we kept our 2004 1st round pick, and taken Mike Green, maybe he would have gone the way of Smith years ago. Maybe not, but I highly doubt he would have had those 70+ point seasons.

Maybe Smith would have turned out better if he were given a year or two to learn from Lidstrom. Maybe he would have been better if he were drafted by another team. Maybe he would have sucked more if either of these things happened. We have no idea. This is all conjecture, but for me, I don't believe a kid as skilled as Smith was destined to fail, having absolutely nothing to do with his surroundings. I've admitted in the past that he didn't do himself any favors, but I think the environment he was placed in, had a lot to do with why he turned out the way he did.

So because Smith had to start one season behind Ian White and play PK time the organization ruined him? Im not saying 100% of this is on Smith, but what your pointing out is not evidence at all of "mishandling".

From what I can see the organization gave him ample oppurtunity to make waves in the NHL, especially since our D corps was thin. Same goes for guys like Kindl. Now he's playing in a new system and Smiths style is still as ineffective as it was here. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

29 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So because Smith had to start one season behind Ian White and play PK time the organization ruined him? Im not saying 100% of this is on Smith, but what your pointing out is not evidence at all of "mishandling".

From what I can see the organization gave him ample oppurtunity to make waves in the NHL, especially since our D corps was thin. Same goes for guys like Kindl. Now he's playing in a new system and Smiths style is still as ineffective as it was here. 

Yup, that's literally the only reason...

You're not saying 100% of this was on Smith? No kidding. I'm not saying 100% of this was on management either... Crazy hey? It could actually be a multitude of reasons. Not just that Smith always sucked... 

I believe Smith's shortcomings were partially due to the organization not putting him in a position to succeed earlier in his career, which shook his confidence. And partially on Smith for allowing that to shake his confidence, aka, a lack of determination to fight through the adversity... Like so many have mentioned before, Smith had all the tools, but no toolbox. There are a ton of players that have all the skill in the world, but never reach their full potential. Is it all on them? Nope. Is it all on everyone around them? Nope. Things aren't always black and white...

Can we please talk about how we disagree on the reason Smith failed to meet expectations for another 3 pages?... Please...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yup, that's literally the only reason...

You're not saying 100% of this was on Smith? No kidding. I'm not saying 100% of this was on management either... Crazy hey? It could actually be a multitude of reasons. Not just that Smith always sucked... 

I believe Smith's shortcomings were partially due to the organization not putting him in a position to succeed earlier in his career, which shook his confidence. And partially on Smith for allowing that to shake his confidence, aka, a lack of determination to fight through the adversity... Like so many have mentioned before, Smith had all the tools, but no toolbox. There are a ton of players that have all the skill in the world, but never reach their full potential. Is it all on them? Nope. Is it all on everyone around them? Nope. Things aren't always black and white...

Can we please talk about how we disagree on the reason Smith failed to meet expectations for another 3 pages?... Please...

Only reason? Feel free to point out more reasons. I havent seen any evidence of Smith being mishandled by management posted by you yet. Or are you saying he wasnt mishandled now?

Maybe Smith would have turned out differenly if he was given 1st pair duties day 1 after he was drafted. Maybe he would have turned out differently if we had kept him in GR until he was 28. The fact of the matter is he was given pretty normal treatment. The guy hardly deserved much PP time, as he couldnt even generate offense at even strength. Still cant with the Rags.

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yup, that's literally the only reason...

You're not saying 100% of this was on Smith? No kidding. I'm not saying 100% of this was on management either... Crazy hey? It could actually be a multitude of reasons. Not just that Smith always sucked... 

I believe Smith's shortcomings were partially due to the organization not putting him in a position to succeed earlier in his career, which shook his confidence. And partially on Smith for allowing that to shake his confidence, aka, a lack of determination to fight through the adversity... Like so many have mentioned before, Smith had all the tools, but no toolbox. There are a ton of players that have all the skill in the world, but never reach their full potential. Is it all on them? Nope. Is it all on everyone around them? Nope. Things aren't always black and white...

Can we please talk about how we disagree on the reason Smith failed to meet expectations for another 3 pages?... Please...

Except he did suceed early in his career. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

26 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Only reason? Feel free to point out more reasons. I havent seen any evidence of Smith being mishandled by management posted by you yet. Or are you saying he wasnt mishandled now?

Maybe Smith would have turned out differenly if he was given 1st pair duties day 1 after he was drafted. Maybe he would have turned out differently if we had kept him in GR until he was 28. The fact of the matter is he was given pretty normal treatment. The guy hardly deserved much PP time, as he couldnt even generate offense at even strength. Still cant with the Rags.

Except he did suceed early in his career. 

Yeah, I used to think he was mishandled, until you opened my eyes. Thanks for that. It's very clear to me now that Smith was put in the optimal position to succeed from day one. The way Babcock handled him was perfect. Smith couldn't have asked for a better situation to be in. Unfortunately for him, he just sucked too bad. Zero skill, borderline NHL defenseman... Oh well, ya win some, ya lose some...

[Buppy 1,720]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I used to think he was mishandled, until you opened my eyes. Thanks for that. It's very clear to me now that Smith was put in the optimal position to succeed from day one. The way Babcock handled him was perfect. Smith couldn't have asked for a better situation to be in. Unfortunately for him, he just sucked too bad. Zero skill, borderline NHL defenseman... Oh well, ya win some, ya lose some...

+1

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 11/21/2017 at 5:27 PM, Dabura said:

Only a S(m)ith deals in absolutes.

"Always two there are; no more, no less."

So who is the other S(m)ith Lord? Is he the Master or the Apprentice?

My guess is: Abby Won Kenobi (AKA: Darth Kader)

Or maybe Hank Solo, Lark Dywalker, Wit Fisto, Darth KronMaul, Ta Tar Binks, or Qui Gon Jen-sen?

With episode 8 coming out, someone needs to do a Star Wars GDT.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[lomekian 201]

Any conjecture about Smith's development by DRW is fundsnmentslly hypothrtical because we have the current reality of him being a #6 d-man with little offensive potential left, with a frankly bizarre cap hit, who can elevate his game to that of. #4 come the postseason.

Why didn't he achieve more? What combo of nature and wings nurture?

I do agree that him being with the big club instead of Ian White may have sent his career moving in a better direction, as happened to anyone else who got to keep Lidstrom company. But his problems would likely to have  been similar....he just doesn't think the game at a high enough level for an offensive impact at NHL level, and having never really been one, doesn't have the instincts of a defensive d-man.

i'm not sure he was ever desitined to be vastly better than what we have seen, due to the natue of his flaws. But with better usage he may have had a better career in Detroit and have been more useful to the team.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

"Always two there are; no more, no less."

So who is the other S(m)ith Lord? Is he the Master or the Apprentice?

My guess is: Abby Won Kenobi (AKA: Darth Kader)

Or maybe Hank Solo, Lark Dywalker, Wit Fisto, Darth KronMaul, Ta Tar Binks, or Qui Gon Jen-sen?

With episode 8 coming out, someone needs to do a Star Wars GDT.

you should totally go for it

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I used to think he was mishandled, until you opened my eyes. Thanks for that. It's very clear to me now that Smith was put in the optimal position to succeed from day one. The way Babcock handled him was perfect. Smith couldn't have asked for a better situation to be in. Unfortunately for him, he just sucked too bad. Zero skill, borderline NHL defenseman... Oh well, ya win some, ya lose some...

Do you want to actually discuss and address my argument? Or are you just going to fallaciously exaggerate my stance?

Your acting childish, and if you simply have nothing to rebuttal with just bow out now and quit discussing. Im here to actually talk about it, not play silly games. I know this is a sensitive issue for you so I'm giving you that respect, i expect the same from you.

[kickazz 5,459]

On 11/21/2017 at 5:00 PM, krsmith17 said:

You're wrong.

No, that's where you're wrong. Only one can be correct. It's all on the player. It has nothing to do with coaching management.

You sir, couldn't be more wrong.

 

I hope you all learned a valuable lesson here. Things are always black and white, and kickazz is always right. Smith sucks, he was destined to suck, and there was absolutely no avoiding the suckage.

Troll post and flaming to the max. Welcome to the club. Now quit being a hypocrite and accept you're no different. 

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Can we please talk about how we disagree on the reason Smith failed to meet expectations for another 3 pages?... Please...

You can just stop responding. But you can't help it because you like being right. Just like the rest of us. 

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, I used to think he was mishandled, until you opened my eyes. Thanks for that. It's very clear to me now that Smith was put in the optimal position to succeed from day one. The way Babcock handled him was perfect. Smith couldn't have asked for a better situation to be in. Unfortunately for him, he just sucked too bad. Zero skill, borderline NHL defenseman... Oh well, ya win some, ya lose some...

Agreed. +2

Edited November 23, 2017 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Do you want to actually discuss and address my argument? Or are you just going to fallaciously exaggerate my stance?

Your acting childish, and if you simply have nothing to rebuttal with just bow out now and quit discussing. Im here to actually talk about it, not play silly games. I know this is a sensitive issue for you so I'm giving you that respect, i expect the same from you.

What's the point in discussing it any further? It's been a back and forth argument for over FIVE f***ing years... I say I believe Smith could have been handled better by Babcock and company. Being a notable Babcock slappy, you say he put him in the best position to succeed. It's my opinion (along with a few others) against yours (along with a few others). Who gives a s***? I don't. I could care less why you think Smith failed to meet expectations, but for whatever reason you and kickazz get offended that I believe it was partially on the organization. Why that bothers you two so much is beyond me...

You've asked me to explain how he was mishandled or what could have been done differently, and I've listed several reasons and remedies, but for whatever reason, that's not good enough.

I'm acting childish? Haha. I took a fallacious stance agreeing with you in hopes this would end... Apparently not...

I'm done talking about Smith. He's a New York Ranger. Who gives a f*** why he failed with the Wings? He did and I've admitted that.

Cholowski is a very similar type of defenseman as Smith, with similar hype already. Most everyone is projecting Cholo to be a top 4 defenseman, and some believe he has the potential to become a top 2. Both are smooth skating, puck moving defensemen that had / have a ton of potential. I hope when Cholowski eventually makes the team, he is put in a position that best suits his skill set. I hope he is played with a veteran like Green or someone similar (not a Doug Janik, Kyle Quincey or Brian Lashoff type...). I hope he is given power-play time, and not removed immediately if the power-play isn't successful. I hope he's held accountable, but not given too short a leash where he finds himself a healthy scratch every other game because of rookie mistakes (when the vets are making the same mistakes...). And MOST importantly, I hope he's not expected to play a shut-down role, when he's never been expected to play that style at any level. If you draft a player because he's a big, stay at home defenseman, you're not going to keep throwing him on the power-play to try to spark some offense, so why would you draft an offensive defenseman and try to mold him into a defensive defenseman? It's dumb.

Anyway, if Cholowski is put in the best situation to succeed, I think he will be a damn good defenseman. If he doesn't meet expectations and someone here says they think he is being mishandled, I may question it, but I sure as hell won't say their opinion is wrong for FIVE f***ing years! LOL. Get over yourselves and MOVE ON!

I think Smith was mishandled for the reasons stated above. You disagree.

5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Troll post and flaming to the max. Welcome to the club. Now quit being a hypocrite and accept you're no different. 

You can just stop responding. But you can't help it because you like being right. Just like the rest of us. 

Agreed. +2

If you haven't realized yet that I'm not saying either side is right or either side is wrong, I don't know what to say... It is not black and white. It's a f***ing opinion...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What's the point in discussing it any further? It's been a back and forth argument for over FIVE f***ing years... I say I believe Smith could have been handled better by Babcock and company. Being a notable Babcock slappy, you say he put him in the best position to succeed. It's my opinion (along with a few others) against yours (along with a few others). Who gives a s***? I don't. I could care less why you think Smith failed to meet expectations, but for whatever reason you and kickazz get offended that I believe it was partially on the organization. Why that bothers you two so much is beyond me...

You've asked me to explain how he was mishandled or what could have been done differently, and I've listed several reasons and remedies, but for whatever reason, that's not good enough.

I'm acting childish? Haha. I took a fallacious stance agreeing with you in hopes this would end... Apparently not...

I'm done talking about Smith. He's a New York Ranger. Who gives a f*** why he failed with the Wings? He did and I've admitted that.

Cholowski is a very similar type of defenseman as Smith, with similar hype already. Most everyone is projecting Cholo to be a top 4 defenseman, and some believe he has the potential to become a top 2. Both are smooth skating, puck moving defensemen that had / have a ton of potential. I hope when Cholowski eventually makes the team, he is put in a position that best suits his skill set. I hope he is played with a veteran like Green or someone similar (not a Doug Janik, Kyle Quincey or Brian Lashoff type...). I hope he is given power-play time, and not removed immediately if the power-play isn't successful. I hope he's held accountable, but not given too short a leash where he finds himself a healthy scratch every other game because of rookie mistakes (when the vets are making the same mistakes...). And MOST importantly, I hope he's not expected to play a shut-down role, when he's never been expected to play that style at any level. If you draft a player because he's a big, stay at home defenseman, you're not going to keep throwing him on the power-play to try to spark some offense, so why would you draft an offensive defenseman and try to mold him into a defensive defenseman? It's dumb.

Anyway, if Cholowski is put in the best situation to succeed, I think he will be a damn good defenseman. If he doesn't meet expectations and someone here says they think he is being mishandled, I may question it, but I sure as hell won't say their opinion is wrong for FIVE f***ing years! LOL. Get over yourselves and MOVE ON!

I think Smith was mishandled for the reasons stated above. You disagree.

If you haven't realized yet that I'm not saying either side is right or either side is wrong, I don't know what to say... It is not black and white. It's a f***ing opinion...

Look, the childish kicking and screaming isn't gonna get you anywhere with me. Not sure why youre doubling down on it. If you truely dont want want to discuss and want to "move on" DONT DISCUSS AND MOVE ON. Ive given you that out, but you instead write a book, again exaggerating and misrepresenting my stance. You say one thing, and do another.

I've stated Babcock put Smith in a very normal position to succeed. Was he given the moon? No. Was he "mishandled"? IMO, no... Im still waiting for you to post evidence to that claim despite your repeated wails to the contrary. And no, having to play the PK as Dman is not mishandling.