Red Wings trade Vanek to FLA for (D) Dylan McIlrath and Conditional 3rd Round Pick

[greenrebellion 415]

1 minute ago, scotzman said:

It's the sum of his ineptitude over the last 5-7 years. Bad contracts. Playing it safe. Losing Babcock. Not moving up to make room for Yzerman. Just some really bad moves.

That's all well and good, and I don't necessarily disagree.  But just because a GM is bad at somethings or made mistakes in the past doesn't mean that everything he does is awful and needs to be treated with pitchforks coming out.  Vanek deal was best the market would give him, and personally I'd rather have the 3rd rounder than lose Vanek for nothing at the end of this season.

[scotzman 29]

2 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

That's all well and good, and I don't necessarily disagree.  But just because a GM is bad at somethings or made mistakes in the past doesn't mean that everything he does is awful and needs to be treated with pitchforks coming out.  Vanek deal was best the market would give him, and personally I'd rather have the 3rd rounder than lose Vanek for nothing at the end of this season.

I don't think we're really disagreeing on much...

Point is, while Kenny has been a "successful" GM for 20 years, it's time for something new. We had an incredible run, but it ain't working the way it used to.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

I guess at the end of the day we have an additional 3 3rds, a 2nd, a 6th, and didn't sign Smith to a 3.75 million dollar contract. Now hopefully we tank for a top 3-5 pick. 

[Barrie 900]

True we could have got more for Vanek, but maybe with him a UFA coming off a good year, this was the best we could get? Vanek is clearly a rental, with the season he had, he'll become a FA instead of signing with his current team.

[DangleDangleBeach 16]

I really don't think this trade is as bad as everyone is saying. If Florida makes the playoffs then Arizonas 3rd round pick should be closer to a 2nd rounder eh? 

Sure, I wanted a first rounder for him too, but I don't think that was happening. Instead of him walking away after the season for nothing we at least got something for him, even if it wasn't what you guys wanted or thought we should have. It's really easy to sit on our computers and speculate,  but we don't know what goes on in those phone calls or the value he is perceived to have elsewhere. You take what you can get... and I say that as a person who is not a KH supporter. 

Mcilrath is an animal. How many guys in the league would even fight Wayne Simmonds? Mcilrath held his own against him, and literally nobody wants to throw down with Simmonds. FEARLESS.

Receiving a guy who was once compared to Scott Steven's excites me even if he has since been called a flop. Obviously, he is nowhere near a Scott Steven's at this point, and it is unlikely he ever will be... but he would hardly be the first player to get called a flop only to be traded elsewhere and had success. Am not saying that will for sure happen, but I guess I'm in the minority feeling like there is potential there. Go watch him on YouTube and tell me he that there isn't the potential for him to bring an element we have been missing a long time. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by DangleDangleBeach

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Agree with most posters here.  I feel we should have gotten more for Vanek.  Holland just doesn't make good trades with Florida teams.

I like fighting and toughness as much as anyone else, but Mcilrath has not been able to stay up in the NHL, and the Wings aren't exactly known as a team that likes big tough guys.  I doubt we're changing our philosophy as a franchise on that point.  

Give Holland a right-handed defenseman, and he'll act like Pavlov's dog for you.

1 hour ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Unbelievably bad return...jesus....

Worst trade since Obama traded five terrorists for Bo Bergdahl.      

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

What if they don't pick up the phone?

Then you stalk 'em on Facebook...............................wait, what are we talking about here?

[xtrememachine1 795]

Considering what we got in the Smith trade, everyone expected more with Vanek considering he's actually been pretty good for us.  If you had told me two days ago, that we'd get a 2nd and 3rd for Smith and a 3rd and an AHL d-man for Vanek, I wouldn't have believed it.  Considering we gave up a first to get Kyle Quincey a few years ago, you'd think Vanek would be at least a 2nd round pick.  Apparently, below average d-men are worth more than snipers in the league right now.  This is probably the best deal Holland could get for Vanek.  Having said that, if d-men are valued more on the trade market, he absolutely should have traded Green and maybe Ericsson too.

[Glubki 17]

I was far more surprised at what they got for Smith then by the assets they acquired for Vanek as I never felt he was worth more then a late second rounder in the rental market.

To me, this signals that management is publicly acquiescing to a 4-5 year rebuild instead of the quick 2-3 years that fans were hoping for by anticipating lofty returns on every deal just because a few teams reached or panicked early on. Kenny of old would have stood pat and offered a two year extension out of loyalty.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Glubki

[Dominator2005 558]

BTW, McIlarth have more goals (in less games) this season than She...

Edited March 1, 2017 by Dominator2005

[scotzman 29]

I hope he gets a look with the big club just so we can watch him fight...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

37 minutes ago, Glubki said:

I was far more surprised at what they got for Smith then by the assets they acquired for Vanek as I never felt he was worth more then a late second rounder in the rental market.

To me, this signals that management is publicly acquiescing to a 4-5 year rebuild instead of the quick 2-3 years that fans were hoping for by anticipating lofty returns on every deal just because a few teams reached or panicked early on. Kenny of old would have stood pat and offered a two year extension out of loyalty.

I don't know why people keep saying rebuild , to me a rebuild is what the leafs were a few years ago no emerging young talent in the organization at all 

 

we have larkin mantha athanasiou , sheahan is still young enough to be a good 3rd line guy, we have a stud goalie in mrazek 

 

svechnikov ,bertuzzi coming, hopefully a russo Hronek  etc... emerges , God knows we've never drafted someone outside of yzerman that was suppose to be a star(fedorov,lidstrom,datsyuk,zetterberg etc)

 

main problems on this team are the obvious need for help on the back end ,hideous contracts our stupid gm handcuffed us with, and the need for a new coach 

 

I think it's very possible we can be in the playoffs next season 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

49 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I don't know why people keep saying rebuild , to me a rebuild is what the leafs were a few years ago no emerging young talent in the organization at all 

 

we have larkin mantha athanasiou , sheahan is still young enough to be a good 3rd line guy, we have a stud goalie in mrazek 

 

svechnikov ,bertuzzi coming, hopefully a russo Hronek  etc... emerges , God knows we've never drafted someone outside of yzerman that was suppose to be a star(fedorov,lidstrom,datsyuk,zetterberg etc)

 

main problems on this team are the obvious need for help on the back end ,hideous contracts our stupid gm handcuffed us with, and the need for a new coach 

 

I think it's very possible we can be in the playoffs next season 

Stud goalie?  He's putting up Cheveldae like numbers this season.  

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

2 hours ago, scotzman said:

I don't think we're really disagreeing on much...

Point is, while Kenny has been a "successful" GM for 20 years, it's time for something new. We had an incredible run, but it ain't working the way it used to.

I would agree if Kenny had sticked by his old ways. That is trading a pick or prospects for a rental. He didn't. He changed course, he became a seller. And did the right thing. Loading us up with picks. What do you expect him to do differently ? Magically trading Vanek for McDavid ?

Just look what the Avs got for Iginla. A conditional 4th in 2018. Comparing that to our Vanek trade Holland did pretty well.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by derblaueClaus

[joesuffP 1,746]

Imagine if we were Sacremento Kings fans. The GM got fleeced in the Cousins trade then straight up came out and said to the media he had better offers made earlier

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

34 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Stud goalie?  He's putting up Cheveldae like numbers this season.  

Doesn't help that  he has a cheveldae behind the bench and a cheveldae defense 

 

hes been real good last 4-5 weeks 

 

still young for a goalie  ... Have  faith man

[Glubki 17]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I don't know why people keep saying rebuild , to me a rebuild is what the leafs were a few years ago no emerging young talent in the organization at all; I think it's very possible we can be in the playoffs next season 

Maybe the truth hurts? I'll meet you back here in 3 years and we can reassess bragging rights. To me this is the start of the tear down and Griffins/prospects are unknown commodities. Meanwhile Z gets older and the defense is still porous. They dumped grit and a solid scorer for chump change and got an unexpected return for Smith. Nothing else has changed and their picks are in a weak draft.

Tatar, Nyquist and Larkin were supposed to elevate the squad this year and you are banking on mid-tier prospects for a playoff run? Sorry but I see a two more years of pain with more selling next year. Patience isn't a bad thing in hockey...

[kliq 3,755]

Overall I am disappointed with the deal, but I do believe Holland got the best deal possible.

I admit I overestimated Vanek's value, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Vanek is a player who has had a roller coaster career, so naturally teams are leery. Not to mention wingers simply have less value then centers and d-men come this time of year.

Just look at what other wingers got:

Iginla - 2018 Conditional 4th-Round Pick

Stafford - conditional 6th-Round Pick

P.A. Parenteau  - 2017 6th-Round Pick

Dwight King - 2018 Conditional 4th-Round Pick

Vrbata - Not even traded

Edited March 1, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

4 minutes ago, Glubki said:

They dumped grit and a solid scorer for chump change

 

They traded a soon to be UFA and solid scorer for the best offer available. Would you have preferred they keep him for nothing? Also, a 3rd round pick is not "chump change". Just off the top of my head, Kris Letang, Tyson Barrie, and Shayne Gostisbehere were all 3rd rounders. Unlikely to find a stud Center in the 3rd, but high end D-men typically come in the later rounds

[Glubki 17]

5 minutes ago, kliq said:

They traded a soon to be UFA and solid scorer for the best offer available. Would you have preferred they keep him for nothing? Also, a 3rd round pick is not "chump change". Just off the top of my head, Kris Letang, Tyson Barrie, and Shayne Gostisbehere were all 3rd rounders. Unlikely to find a stud Center in the 3rd, but high end D-men typically come in the later rounds

Nope - I think they did what they had to do...chump change was in context of the overall discussion not the specific trade. I think Holland did the best he could do and got far more positive out of his trades then he lost out on...:)

[e_prime 1,936]

Here's good analysis on why Vanek got such a low return.  Not for the anti-analytics crowd but REALITY FOLKS.  Vanek was sheltered and other coaches and teams that use analytics knew that what you see isn't what you necessarily get.  Florida, with their forward corps now healthy, can use him for what he is... an offensive threat, but not much else.

For example:  Wanna know why LAK weren't interested in Vanek?  They've already got an all offense guy in Gaborik.  

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/thomas-vanek-traded-small-return/

Quote

What may have caught some people off guard was the modest price. In exchange for Vanek, all the Florida Panthers had to pay was a third-round pick and the rights to AHL defenceman Dylan McIlrath.

...

Of the 400-odd NHL players who have played at least 200 minutes at 5-on-5 this season, Vanek is the most sheltered in terms of where his coach deploys him. In recent years, we’ve seen certain coaches become increasingly extreme in their player usage, deploying specific skaters as specialists in the offensive zone or defensive zone. ...

Vanek is averaging 2.8 points/hour at 5-on-5, which ranks him sixth in the NHL, just back of Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. He also leads the team with 11 power play points, something he wouldn’t be able to do if Blashill hadn’t found a job for him at even-strength.

Yet the Red Wings were still out-shot when Vanek was on the ice, even though for much of the year he has been propped up by excellent two-way centre Frans Nielsen. Nielsen has of course had much more difficult assignments when not playing with Vanek.

Florida didn’t pick up a true top-six forward on Wednesday, someone comparable to a Radim Vrbata or even an Alex Burrows. Instead, they grabbed a player who is a pure specialist, in much the same way as a faceoff-winning/penalty-killing fourth-line centre is. Vanek can score, but he’s a player who at this stage of his career needs to be carefully handled lest he become more liability than asset.

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by e_prime

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

Jep, I think @Dabura already brought this up. It's good analyses and makes sense.

[marcaractac 3,962]

56 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

A very reasonable post.

Far too many here are upset (which as a fellow Red Wing fan I can understand) at the idea Holland didn't get enough in return.

Truth be told - I feel Holland did quite well overall at this deadline.

 

This. There was a lot of overpayment this deadline, but it was all on dmen and centers. 

[amato 3,210]

That analysis makes sense. It just so happened to be exactly what the wings have needed, imo.. so obviously it worked out great here, and fans loved him. I can see why some teams might be a little skeptical of adding Vanek though. 

[kliq 3,755]

Not sure if anyone posted this or not, but for those complaining about Dylan Mcllrath, I think he was just a throw in so Florida could make cap. He is a UFA after this season. Think of this trade as essentially Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Personally, I welcome our new face punching overlord

Make the Red Wings violent again