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NerveDamage

03/03 GDT : Detroit Red Wings vs Calgary Flames : 9:00 PM ET

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2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Well I mean, it used to be Howards fault. Wingfan just seems to be returning the favor. 

Oh there were many times over the last few years that it was his fault. Like in the playoffs. But I forgot that he's redeemed himself around here with his stats in 15 games in between two injuries and beating himself up in the AHL on a "conditioning stint" that lasted two months.

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6 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Oh there were many times over the last few years that it was his fault. Like in the playoffs. But I forgot that he's redeemed himself around here with his stats in 15 games in between two injuries and beating himself up in the AHL on a "conditioning stint" that lasted two months.

Redeemed himself probably in the 2013 stretch to make the playoffs and the actual 2013 playoffs themselves. Then the stretch in 2015, then the all star nomination, then the olympic nomination. You know stuff that was more than 15 games. 

See chaps, you have bias against Howard and make sarcastic posts like you just did (15 games really?) but when others do the same for Mrazek all of a sudden it becomes a problem. 

tsk tsk. Until you can meet halfway and recognize Howard was a decent goalie (he was), you're going to have to keep dealing with the fellow (and many others) who post against Mrazek. 

Because the point is, you overrated Mrazek and underrate Howard. Instead of well, actually judging both goalies fairly. 

Edited by kickazz

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2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Redeemed himself probably in the 2013 stretch to make the playoffs and the actual 2013 playoffs themselves. Then the stretch in 2015, then the all star nomination, then the olympic nomination. You know stuff that was more than 15 games. 

See chaps, you have bias against Howard and make sarcastic posts like you just did (15 games really?) but when others do the same for Mrazek all of a sudden it becomes a problem. 

tsk tsk. Until you can meet halfway and recognize Howard was a decent goalie, you're going to half to keep dealing with the fellow who previously posted. 

I agree Howard WAS a decent goalie a few years ago. I was a fan of his, even have his jersey. But the guy has been a mess for quite awhile now. Only reason he is still on the team is Holland couldn't trade him. Wonder why?

You mention the 2013 playoffs. That was the year he blew a series after being up 3-1, no? 2014 he was benched for Monster in the playoffs, 2015 sat on the bench, 2016 lasted two games then benched for Mrazek. 

All Star Game? Third stringer on the US Olympic team? Did he even dress for a game? Those are his big career achievements, along with a couple first round playoff series wins? Amazing stuff.

 Howard just needs to go out to pasture and make way for the future in Detroit. He tried. Good effort. If only he had trade value instead of a bum knee...

 

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6 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

You mention the 2013 playoffs. That was the year he blew a series after being up 3-1, no? 2014 he was benched for Monster in the playoffs, 2015 sat on the bench, 2016 lasted two games then benched for Mrazek. 

All Star Game? Third stringer on the US Olympic team? Did he even dress for a game? Those are his big career achievements, along with a couple first round playoff series wins? Amazing stuff.

 Howard just needs to go out to pasture and make way for the future in Detroit. He tried. Good effort. If only he had trade value instead of a bum knee...

This post seems like a bit of a stretch in an effort to put down Howard. In 2013 the team blew a 3-1 lead, to say it was all on Howard is a bit of a stretch. He did have some bad games, but if I remember correctly Chicago simply outplayed us.

2014 he was injured, pretty sure he had a minor concussion. He didnt even play bad, first game got a shutout, 2nd game he did let in 4 goals, 3rd game let in 2. I remember someone skating into his head, and him having "flu like symptoms".

Howard is a good goaltender, not a great goaltender. Like so many others, since he did not become elite he gets s*** on. Same thing is starting to happen to Mrazek.

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I was there tonight. Not the biggest Mrazek fan but he got hung out to dry. Was sad as hell that they needed a miracle to get a point. Calgary was not good at all tonight but Kronner handed them a goal and that was it,

Will be in Edmonton tomorrow too so hopefully this game angered them enough to come out and kick some ass.

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9 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I agree Howard WAS a decent goalie a few years ago. I was a fan of his, even have his jersey. But the guy has been a mess for quite awhile now. Only reason he is still on the team is Holland couldn't trade him. Wonder why?

You mention the 2013 playoffs. That was the year he blew a series after being up 3-1, no? 2014 he was benched for Monster in the playoffs, 2015 sat on the bench, 2016 lasted two games then benched for Mrazek. 

All Star Game? Third stringer on the US Olympic team? Did he even dress for a game? Those are his big career achievements, along with a couple first round playoff series wins? Amazing stuff.

 Howard just needs to go out to pasture and make way for the future in Detroit. He tried. Good effort. If only he had trade value instead of a bum knee...

 

He didnt blow the 3-1 lead lol the entire team did and Chicago turned into a beast of a team.

Yeah all star game.

And yeah third string for Olympics. You do realize what the honor means to even be part of an olympics team right? I know you're old enough to know that. How many goalies do you know can say that?

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9 hours ago, kickazz said:

He didnt blow the 3-1 lead lol the entire team did and Chicago turned into a beast of a team.

Yeah all star game.

And yeah third string for Olympics. You do realize what the honor means to even be part of an olympics team right? I know you're old enough to know that. How many goalies do you know can say that?

Sure it's an honor to be part of an Olympic team, but wearing a suit or street clothes instead of equipment for anything except practices makes you pretty forgettable. 

Then again, that whole team became pretty forgettable after being shutout by Finland 4-0 in the bronze medal game. Lol

14 hours ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

Just a hater, ignore him.  

Pretty much.

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Sure it's an honor to be part of an Olympic team, but wearing a suit or street clothes instead of equipment for anything except practices makes you pretty forgettable. 

 

Hah, if it were Mrazek you would be raving about how he got selected to Olympic team. And obviously he's remembered for being on it because we're talking about it and it sounds like you have good memory (perfect actually) that he was the 3rd started for the team! 

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Hah, if it were Mrazek you would be raving about how he got selected to Olympic team. And obviously he's remembered for being on it because we're talking about it and it sounds like you have good memory (perfect actually) that he was the 3rd started for the team! 

Nah I wouldn't. Couldn't care less, especially if it isn't Team Canada. Didn't bring up the World Cup did I? Not that it's the same, but ya.

And I remember because I'm a Wings fan and Howard plays for them, not because it was the Olympics.

I complain more often than usual because it's been a s***ty season (one that I know had to happen and was prepared for to happen, but still s***ty nonetheless), and I'm tired of the big money contracts that arent being earned by the vets that need purging so youth can fully take over, and Howard is one of them. I also complain a lot about Kronwall and Ericsson too.

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Nah I wouldn't. Couldn't care less, especially if it isn't Team Canada. Didn't bring up the World Cup did I? Not that it's the same, but ya.

And I remember because I'm a Wings fan and Howard plays for them, not because it was the Olympics.

I complain more often than usual because it's been a s***ty season (one that I know had to happen and was prepared for to happen, but still s***ty nonetheless), and I'm tired of the big money contracts that arent being earned by the vets that need purging so youth can fully take over, and Howard is one of them. I also complain a lot about Kronwall and Ericsson too.

I'll ive you E, but I dont see how anyone can give Kronwall crap. The guy is doing the best he can with what he has left. It's not his fault his knees are falling apart. It would be like slamming Yzerman for his final season.

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7 hours ago, kliq said:

I'll ive you E, but I dont see how anyone can give Kronwall crap. The guy is doing the best he can with what he has left. It's not his fault his knees are falling apart. It would be like slamming Yzerman for his final season.

I'd be okay with Kronwall playing 3rd pair minutes if it were just him being a step slower, but it seems to be more than his foot speed to me... His passing has been off, he can't get shots through from the point, and has trouble holding the zone. Even his decision making has been questionable at times. I'm not sure what's going on with him, but I hope he either gets his game back on track or goes the way of LTIR. No disrespect to Kronwall, he's had a great career, but if his body (knees) isn't holding up, time to hang them up...

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be okay with Kronwall playing 3rd pair minutes if it were just him being a step slower, but it seems to be more than his foot speed to me... His passing has been off, he can't get shots through from the point, and has trouble holding the zone. Even his decision making has been questionable at times. I'm not sure what's going on with him, but I hope he either gets his game back on track or goes the way of LTIR. No disrespect to Kronwall, he's had a great career, but if his body (knees) isn't holding up, time to hang them up...

I agree with all of this. My issue is when people talk about him in a critical way and personalize it (ie. Ughhh, come on Kronwall you piece of crap, what are you doing!!".

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13 hours ago, kliq said:

I'll ive you E, but I dont see how anyone can give Kronwall crap. The guy is doing the best he can with what he has left. It's not his fault his knees are falling apart. It would be like slamming Yzerman for his final season.

Yeah he's trying, but for what he can do at this stage of his career, it's probably just best that he not play. He should still be able to contribute a lot more than he can, but he was overused and burnt out due to Holland's inability to find somewhat of a replacement for Lidstrom. So many goals have been scored due to his inability to get around the zone this season, not to mention the entire length of the ice.

As for it being like slamming Yzerman, Kronwall isn't and never will be at his status level or his degree of importance to the Wings franchise for over two decades as a player. He's right next to Gordie Howe at the top of the list as the franchises greatest players. He had the right to go out on his own terms.

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Yeah he's trying, but for what he can do at this stage of his career, it's probably just best that he not play. He should still be able to contribute a lot more than he can, but he was overused and burnt out due to Holland's inability to find somewhat of a replacement for Lidstrom. So many goals have been scored due to his inability to get around the zone this season, not to mention the entire length of the ice.

As for it being like slamming Yzerman, Kronwall isn't and never will be at his status level or his degree of importance to the Wings franchise for over two decades as a player. He's right next to Gordie Howe at the top of the list as the franchises greatest players. He had the right to go out on his own terms.

Ok , first off I never said Yzerman and Kronwall were at the same level. Please don't put words in my mouth and twist the narrative.

Here is my narrative, if a player's body breaks down because of what they did on the ice for your franchise, when that player is in regression you don't take personal shots at him. I dont care if you are Yzerman, Kronwall, or Franzen, they put their bodies on the line for your team. I dont only respect great players for putting their bodies on the line, I respect all players. 

I will even do you one better and say Yzerman was the greatest Wing of all time with all due respect to Gordie Howe.

Also, do you really think that if Kronwall was playing 3min less per game his knees would be 100%? Maybe it happened a bit sooner, but not replacing Lidstrom is not the reason for Kronwall's injuries. 

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2 hours ago, kliq said:

Ok , first off I never said Yzerman and Kronwall were at the same level. Please don't put words in my mouth and twist the narrative.

Here is my narrative, if a player's body breaks down because of what they did on the ice for your franchise, when that player is in regression you don't take personal shots at him. I dont care if you are Yzerman, Kronwall, or Franzen, they put their bodies on the line for your team. I dont only respect great players for putting their bodies on the line, I respect all players. 

I will even do you one better and say Yzerman was the greatest Wing of all time with all due respect to Gordie Howe.

Also, do you really think that if Kronwall was playing 3min less per game his knees would be 100%? Maybe it happened a bit sooner, but not replacing Lidstrom is not the reason for Kronwall's injuries. 

You said talking s*** about Kronwall not playing well because of his knees is akin to talking s*** about Yzerman not playing well because of his knee, so I'm not "putting words in your mouth". Those are both vastly different situations involving vastly different players. Not alike at all.

Sp instead of telling the truth that Kronwall is finished and shouldn't play anymore because he's a defensive liability, I should be respectful for all his years of service and that he's still willing to play in his condition? Are you and Kenny related by any chance?

Sure not replacing Lidstrom isn't the only reason Kronwall is broken and burnt out, but it sure didn't help. He had to play tons of minutes in a top pairing role when he really was a second pairing guy.  Maybe at his very peak he was a top pair guy, but it was a bit of a stretch. Being forced into that role took a huge toll on him, and his career is almost done probabably 2-3 years before it should be. He should have been able to finish his current contract still being a capable lower pairing guy. 2 years left and he's played half the season this year. Gonna be a looong 2 years, unless he stays on LTIRetirement soon. One can hope.

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14 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

You said talking s*** about Kronwall not playing well because of his knees is akin to talking s*** about Yzerman not playing well because of his knee, so I'm not "putting words in your mouth". Those are both vastly different situations involving vastly different players. Not alike at all.

Sp instead of telling the truth that Kronwall is finished and shouldn't play anymore because he's a defensive liability, I should be respectful for all his years of service and that he's still willing to play in his condition? Are you and Kenny related by any chance?

Sure not replacing Lidstrom isn't the only reason Kronwall is broken and burnt out, but it sure didn't help. He had to play tons of minutes in a top pairing role when he really was a second pairing guy.  Maybe at his very peak he was a top pair guy, but it was a bit of a stretch. Being forced into that role took a huge toll on him, and his career is almost done probabably 2-3 years before it should be. He should have been able to finish his current contract still being a capable lower pairing guy. 2 years left and he's played half the season this year. Gonna be a looong 2 years, unless he stays on LTIRetirement soon. One can hope.

Chaps, you did put words in my mouth as you started going off on how Yzerman is on a different level then Kronwall. By saying this in the way you did its putting it out there that I believe differently which I do not. Either way, I fail to see how the Kronwall and Yzerman situations are different? Both busted their asses for their entire career's as Red Wings, both had their knees go to s***, both were a shells of their former shelves near the end. My point, is that I hold respect for what they did, and will not come down on them for their bodies breaking down. Does Kronwall's cap-hit suck, yes it does, but I am not going to vilify Kronwall for that.

To your second question, I think you may have misunderstood something. I have no problem with anyone including you speaking the truth about Kronwall being finished, I fully admit he no longer has what it takes to be a top guy in the NHL and hopes he goes on LTIR sooner then later. What I have an issue with is people giving him s***. There is a big difference between saying "Kronwall is done and needs to retire" and "Ughhh seriously Kronwall you piece of useless s***, I'm sick of seeing your sorry ass on the ice". I'm not saying you say that, my point is I have issues when people in general say that, or say things similar to that.

"Are you and Kenny related by any chance?" Come on man, there is no need to take shots. I think you are a good contributor to this board and I may disagree with things you say sometimes, but I think we can have a debate without taking shots at each other. If I offended you which led to that comment, that was not my intention. With that being said, yes I will admit I think loyalty is important. Doesnt mean I think that every player should be signed to a long term contract, but someone who's knees break down should not be vilified IMO. And when I say that, I dont mean necessarily you, I mean in general.

I dont agree that playing top pairing took 2-3 years off his career, but I can't prove that and there is no way for either of us to back of our opinion. I'm basing my opinion on what I know of anatomy. IMO Kronwall's condition likely was created by an injury that never healed, or more likely by chronic knee issues that were inevitable (isnt it both knees?). Playing above your head doesnt usually lead to injury, it just leads to bad performance (ie DD this year). Though, there could be something to him being overworked at an older age, I will admit I could be wrong about this one.

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