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NerveDamage

Chelios Blasts Mike Babcock

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Chelios was interviewed by 97.1 The Ticket’s Jeff Riger last night and said this

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/03/24/chelios-blasts-mike-babcock-says-wings-might-lure-free-agents-now-that-hes-gone/

“No veteran free agent is going to want to come in and play for Mike Babcock,” Chelios said. “I wanted to because I wanted to stay in Detroit, but no matter what I did — I tried so hard to win his heart over and I just couldn’t.”

Chelios said the team’s impending move to Little Caesars Arena could help lure some of those players back to the Motor City.

“I think it’s going to help a lot and I think it’s going to help even more that Babs is gone because those free agents really didn’t want to play for Babs,” Chelios said. “It’s nothing personal, but he’s a tough guy to play for, especially for a veteran. If you’re a young guy I think it’s great because of his accountability and if you don’t play [hard] you’re not gonna play.”

I, for one, hated that Chelios did not play during the '08 Stanley Cup Final.

Edited by NerveDamage

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35 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I for one do not have issues with hard-ass coaches who demand a lot from their players.

I guess the difference between a legend like Bowman, and Babcock was that Bowman knew how to read vets, and how to get the most outta them where as Babs just treats everyone equally like they're fresh outta JR, or collegiate hockey.

Bowman definitely garnered more hate than Babcock did. A good chuck of players actually like Babcock, it's a few bitter ones that *****.

Rumors were that Bowman basically was pushed out of Pittsburgh because Mario Lemieux didn't like him. And how many cups did Mario win after Bowman left? 

Edited by kickazz

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7 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Babcock is right. Chelios is wrong.

Idk what Chelios was smoking for the last 13 years but all we did WAS sign veterans under Babcock.

Modano, Alfredsson, Weiss, Hasek, Bertuzzi, Rafalski, Samuelsson, Drake, McCarty. 

I think Chelios was referring to the real big fish not wanting to come to Detroit like Parise, Suter, Boyle, Niskanen etc.

 

Edited by Datsyukian-Deke

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17 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I think Chelios was referring to the real big fish not wanting to come to Detroit like Parise, Suter, Boyle, Niskanen etc.

 

Nobody good wanted to come here even after Babcock left. 

We ended up with Frans Nielsen... 

Free Agency had Stamkos, Eriksson, Ladd, Radulov, Okposo, Lucic, Backes.

I guess I'm just sick of the organization making excuses and trying to blame others. 

I believed in the narrative that Babcock was a big reason but it looks as tho the issue is we suck all over the place from a bad future outlook, to now a bad coaching staff, to a managerial system that was exposed the last few years for some bad decisions. 

But most of all, there's no reason to blame anyone, free agency in the NHL sucks period. Most players resign with their team and the few who don't get overpaid to be someone else. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Nobody good wanted to come here even after Babcock left. 

We ended up with Frans Nielsen... 

Free Agency had Stamkos, Eriksson, Ladd, Radulov, Okposo, Lucic, Backes.

I guess I'm just sick of the organization making excuses and trying to blame others. 

I believed in the narrative that Babcock was a big reason but it looks as tho the issue is we suck all over the place from a bad future outlook, to now a bad coaching staff, to a managerial system that was exposed the last few years for some bad decisions. 

But most of all, there's no reason to blame anyone, free agency in the NHL sucks period. Most players resign with their team and the few who don't get overpaid to be someone else. 

 

Mike Green did. He was the big fish in the defenseman market and the summer Babcock left we finally got a big free agent. Granted Mike Green hasn't worked out quite like we wanted but you can't argue he wasn't highly sought after that summer.

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Babcock is right. Chelios is wrong.
Idk what Chelios was smoking for the last 13 years but all we did WAS sign veterans under Babcock.
Modano, Alfredsson, Weiss, Hasek, Bertuzzi, Rafalski, Samuelsson, Drake, McCarty. 
 

The longer Babcock was here and the more people said he was great, the bigger his ego got. How many guys did they bring in, have Babcock gush over them, then get used as 4th line/3rd pair guys or spare parts? Once he decided what a player was, that was it.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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9 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Mike Green did. He was the big fish in the defenseman market and the summer Babcock left we finally got a big free agent. Granted Mike Green hasn't worked out quite like we wanted but you can't argue he wasn't highly sought after that summer.

I wouldnt say Green hasnt worked out. He's no savior, but hes also about the only steady hand on that blue line.

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Chelios is still upset about being left off most of the 2008 and 2009 playoff squads, in favor of Brett Lebda.

I don't blame him.  

 

On top of that, Chelios got benched for most of the Winter Classic against Chicago in his hometown.  I thought that was a dick move by Babcock.  

Edited by GMRwings1983

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This reminds me of the 2009 "feud"

Article from 2009.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mlive.com/articles/2831884/jeremy_roenick_apologizes_to_c.amp

"A day after San Jose forward Jeremy Roenick said Wings coach Mike Babcock does not respect Chris Chelios and accused him of holding a grudge against American players, both Babcock and Chelios said Friday that the situation needs to be put to rest and that there's no issues between them."

http://prev.dailyherald.com/story/?id=295636

Another one: 

Cheli added his own perspective Friday and tried to clear up his relationship with Babcock.

"I've never had an issue or problem with him," Chelios said of his head coach.

Edited by kickazz

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Babcock has rubbed some players the wrong way (Commodore, for sure) and does have the reputation as someone that is tough to play for. He's done well with his style, though. People will played for him if the team is winning.

There's a couple things wrong with Chelios' line of thought that this might bring more vet free agents:

- Probably the biggest complaint around here has been the number of over the hill free agents we've brought in the last 5+ Babcock years. You can say he meant the big free agents, but there's many other reasons that seem more likely for the big names that passed up offers (Parise, Suter, Niskanen, etc).

- Many bigger vet free agents came in Babcock's tenure: Hossa, Alfredsson, Hasek's return, Rafalski, Bertuzzi

- We now have a coach who - by most accounts - has a very similar style to Babcock and we've had some hints that he's already rubbed some players the wrong way as well. But regardless of style, from what I've seen, the big free agents make their decisions more based on whether it's a winning team or sometimes due to personal ties.

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20 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

- We now have a coach who - by most accounts - has a very similar style to Babcock and we've had some hints that he's already rubbed some players the wrong way as well. But regardless of style, from what I've seen, the big free agents make their decisions more based on whether it's a winning team or sometimes due to personal ties.

Yep. They either re-sign (Stamkos), go home (Parise), or get overpaid by somenone else. 

If not that, then if it's a top contender, the players will go there. 

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I wouldnt say Green hasnt worked out. He's no savior, but hes also about the only steady hand on that blue line.

I think we imagined him scoring more then 33 points and being a -17 when we forked out 6 mill a year. That's what I meant by that. He has been the best blue liner for us but I think we expected a little more of a return from him.

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I don't believe in the narrative that Free Agents don't or didn't want to come here.

Over the years we have signed a ton of players. Sure none have been superstars, and a lot didn't workout, but free agency simply sucks now a days. It's a day for mediocre players to sign bad long term deals. Look at last year, the big catches were Lucic, Backes, Nielsen, and Okposo, all second tier/third players.

After we didn't land Suter, and then missed out on Niskanen fans created this false narrative, completely ignoring the fact that players like Alfie, Wiess, Green, Nielsen etc all did. Then whenever you call someone out for this, the default response is typically "those players sucked" though that is not the question. Nobody is debating the success of our UFA signings, I admit most have not worked out, the debate is do highly touted UFA's want to come here. I believe the answer is yes.

 

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My opinion is that as we find success, as our younger players become better and we groom a super star or two, we won't have issues bringing players here (if there truly is an issue). Chelios is wrong imo that Babcock is the cause. Maybe I'd have agreed with him last year but with the way FA was you can tell this overall is a league issue.

Also that cap really needs to go up more. These players are too expensive for the cap space. Not to mention that NMC and NTC are awful, can the next CBA just get rid of those dam things?

Edited by kickazz

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I still maintain that Babs was the one who "vetoed" Fedorov's return.  No doubt in my mind he was a factor in attaining some sought after free agents. But also, I think Holland's philosophy has also kept most UFA's away. For awhile it was, "no one makes more than our Captain" which was stupid because Lidstrom was taking YUGE discounts to stay here. So other UFA's felt low-balled. Why should they make less because Lidstrom chose to make less? Then it became "we're Detroit, look at our history and our playoff streak." We just need to change it all up. BUT, we'll be stuck with Blashill because Holland isn't going to hire a whole new staff, just to  move up after next season and have a new GM fire and hire his chosen staff a year later.

I agree with Chelly though, Babs treated certain players bad and made this place a not so good attraction. But moreso it was the combination of him and Holland. He's seems to be doing pretty well in TO.

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20 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I think we imagined him scoring more then 33 points and being a -17 when we forked out 6 mill a year. That's what I meant by that. He has been the best blue liner for us but I think we expected a little more of a return from him.

Meh +/- is a team stat and this team cant score. Im not thrilled, but im not dissapointed. Hes hovered around 40 pts a season for a while now. 33 is acceptable to me.

14 hours ago, shocky2002 said:

The Little Caeser's arena isn't going to attract a single UFA that otherwise wouldn't be here.

Very true. The UFAs would probably rather play in an arena with some history and character like the Joe

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On 2017-03-25 at 0:55 PM, kickazz said:

Nobody good wanted to come here even after Babcock left. 

We ended up with Frans Nielsen... 

Free Agency had Stamkos, Eriksson, Ladd, Radulov, Okposo, Lucic, Backes.

I guess I'm just sick of the organization making excuses and trying to blame others. 

I believed in the narrative that Babcock was a big reason but it looks as tho the issue is we suck all over the place from a bad future outlook, to now a bad coaching staff, to a managerial system that was exposed the last few years for some bad decisions. 

But most of all, there's no reason to blame anyone, free agency in the NHL sucks period. Most players resign with their team and the few who don't get overpaid to be someone else. 

 

Nielsen was an impulse signing when Holland couldn't sign Stamkos and he overpaid big time. 

I remember reading an interview with Matt Martin where he said John Tavares made guys like Nielsen and Okposo lots of money because he made them better players and inflated their stats just by being on the same line with him.

The whole thing with Dats' contract trade was uneccesary, but it is what it is.

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On 3/26/2017 at 2:41 AM, GMRwings1983 said:

Chelios is still upset about being left off most of the 2008 and 2009 playoff squads, in favor of Brett Lebda.

I don't blame him.  

 

On top of that, Chelios got benched for most of the Winter Classic against Chicago in his hometown.  I thought that was a dick move by Babcock.  

What's to stop Chelios from holding a grudge forever?

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1 minute ago, Izzy24 said:

What's to stop Chelios from holding a grudge forever?

Only Chris Chelios can stop Chris Chelios from being Chris Chelios, wait, ahem..

"Chris Chelios doesn't do what Chris Chelios does for Chris Chelios. Chris Chelios does what Chris Chelios does because Chris Chelios is Chris Chelios!"

 

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50 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Nielsen was an impulse signing when Holland couldn't sign Stamkos and he overpaid big time. 

I remember reading an interview with Matt Martin where he said John Tavares made guys like Nielsen and Okposo lots of money because he made them better players and inflated their stats just by being on the same line with him.

The whole thing with Dats' contract trade was uneccesary, but it is what it is.

Nielsen doesn't play with Tavares, they were both Centers on two different lines. 

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3 hours ago, kickazz said:

Nielsen doesn't play with Tavares, they were both Centers on two different lines. 

They did play on the same line sometimes, and quite a bit together on the powerplay.

I wonder when/if Tavares will want out of Long Island? He's been holding that franchise together since he was drafted and they've made the playoffs three times and have won one round, let a few solid roster players like Nielson, Okposo and Martin walk, and don't seem committed to surrounding him with some top players to try to make a cup run anytime soon. I think he's a UFA end of next season. Says he likes it there, but who knows.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Nielsen was an impulse signing when Holland couldn't sign Stamkos and he overpaid big time. ...

The whole thing with Dats' contract trade was uneccesary, but it is what it is.

Can we just put an end to this before it gets to "LW on Franzen/Hossa" levels.

For one, let's stop acting like we gave ARI our first to take Datsyuk. We traded the 16th pick, and got back the 20th and 53rd. Not altogether different than a few years ago when we traded the 18th for the 20th and 58th. Or a few years before that when it was the 24th for the 35th and 48th, or before that the 29th for the 32nd and 75th. It was a fair trade even without them taking Dats' hit. We don't even know that Chychrun would have been our pick. We might have wanted Fabbro and felt confident he would still be there at 20, or even wanted Cholowski to begin with, or maybe we didn't really care and just wanted to add an extra pick. 

In regards to Nielson, he may have been an "impulse" signing, but he was also one of the top players available. His production last year was similar to other top UFAs, and he signed a contract similar to other top UFAs. Oddly enough, his production this year is also similar to the other top UFAs, as all the big names are down from last year. You can call it overpaid if you want, but that's what the UFA market is. 

And to address the topic; we don't have, and have not had, a problem attracting free agents. We may not get every one we want every time, but no team ever does. 

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