The Streak is officially over

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, Wing Across The Pond said:

Was gonna post in a new thread but I reckon it can go in here.

Losing the streak means at least we now have one, final game to say goodbye to the Joe. It's not the way we wanted to say goodbye, but I'd have hated it if our last game of the season was on the road and not at JLA, Throw everything into the biggest send off we can and make that last game something really special.

I mean, it's not ideal; that would be saying goodbye by winning the cup on home ice, but it also casts off the monkey on our backs that we knew was coming, and would have really sucked if the first season at the new arena was the season to break the streak. Real feeling of a new fresh start, what with loading picks at the deadline, not being a playoff team, new barn, youth movement going forward.

I really agree. It is a fitting way to end our stay at the JLA. To me this will itself signify the end of so many things. All the old greats (beside Zberg) are gone. Mr. I and Gordie Howe have both passed. The streak is over. And now the Joe is gone too. Its sad to wave goodbye to so many beloved things, and the last game at the joe will embody that.

But mark that date of the last game on your calander. That will be the date that we recognize one era ends, and another begins. We will start in a brand new building, with a younger fresher team, with no pressure to continue the streak that the old boys started. We are free to build a new identity and sculpt a more modern team. Its exciting, and I look forward to it. 

It's all a bit bittersweet at this point

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

A new way of tanking.

 

[NerveDamage 4,176]

10 minutes ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

A new way of tanking.

 

I see your Cate and raise you a Doggo

[Dabura 12,207]

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 hours ago, NerveDamage said:

I see your Cate and raise you a Doggo

Thats clearly a pupper, not a doggo. Know the difference.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

47 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Thats clearly a pupper, not a doggo. Know the difference.

Wrong! it's a full a** grown chihuahua, this is a pupper

and this is an EmDoge

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by NerveDamage

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Whoa, ok, so is Zetters holding a doggo or a pupper?... or could that even be the elusive/rare woofer?

[NerveDamage 4,176]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Whoa, ok, so is Zetters holding a doggo or a pupper?... or could that even be the elusive/rare woofer?

lol do you know anything about dogs? of course not, you're a bear!

thats obviously a swedish Pugtato

[Dabura 12,207]

Ken Holland says Ken Holland things:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/3/31/15139716/ken-holland-remains-defiant-as-rebuild-talk-intensifies-kenny-the-salesman-strikes-back

PR spin, strawmen, and passive-aggressive contempt for the fans. All in a day's work.

[Dabura 12,207]

(For the record, I don't think what Holland is saying here is necessarily at odds with what Devellano said.)

[kylee 727]

On 3/30/2017 at 6:04 PM, Barrie said:

I've been a fan since 1989-90, so I saw the streak from beginning to end. We can complain all we want about moves we don't like, but think of the players we've lost since 2011, Draper, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Franzen, and Datsyuk. It's tough to replace those guys.

It's tough to replacement those guys when you strike out on Suter, sign stop-gap veteran free agents, and don't address the decline on defense since Lidstrom retired. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

5 hours ago, Dabura said:

Ken Holland says Ken Holland things:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/3/31/15139716/ken-holland-remains-defiant-as-rebuild-talk-intensifies-kenny-the-salesman-strikes-back

PR spin, strawmen, and passive-aggressive contempt for the fans. All in a day's work.

Well this current state of the Wings is his mess so of course he is going to try to spin everything into a positive. Holland hired the coach without interviewing other guys, made the streak more important than building a championship team for the long-run, promised to move up in 2012 he didn't so it cost the Wings the captain and then he litered the team with longterm contracts. It's like Brian Burke when he was the VP of the Maple Leafs of course he would say he'd do the Kessel trade (Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin) all over again and it's the same with Holland he will defend his moves no matter what.

The good thing is it doesn't really matter if Chris Ilitch is unhappy (which he should be) and is on board with a real rebuild everyone who doesn't want one will be gone and replaced. So it's really not worth it getting worked up over the same comments we've been hearing since years. Remember the Maple Leafs when Shanahan came in? He knew what they needed, hired the right people and didn't stray away from the plan even 1 iota and keep in mind that guy had to convince Bell and Rogers...another great story would be Bob Nichelson in Edmonton he replaced their front-office with Koala and Chiarelli and boom turn around. It's almost comical what one guy aside from Nurse and Looch can do to even make non fans wanting to watch Oilers games that's a generational player right there.

[Buppy 1,720]

12 hours ago, Dabura said:

Ken Holland says Ken Holland things:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2017/3/31/15139716/ken-holland-remains-defiant-as-rebuild-talk-intensifies-kenny-the-salesman-strikes-back

PR spin, strawmen, and passive-aggressive contempt for the fans. All in a day's work.

Sometimes I think WIIM exists solely to ensure that the internet doesn't run out of stupid.

6 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Well this current state of the Wings is his mess so of course he is going to try to spin everything into a positive. Holland hired the coach without interviewing other guys, made the streak more important than building a championship team for the long-run, promised to move up in 2012 he didn't so it cost the Wings the captain and then he litered the team with longterm contracts. It's like Brian Burke when he was the VP of the Maple Leafs of course he would say he'd do the Kessel trade (Kessel for Hamilton and Seguin) all over again and it's the same with Holland he will defend his moves no matter what.

The good thing is it doesn't really matter if Chris Ilitch is unhappy (which he should be) and is on board with a real rebuild everyone who doesn't want one will be gone and replaced. So it's really not worth it getting worked up over the same comments we've been hearing since years. Remember the Maple Leafs when Shanahan came in? He knew what they needed, hired the right people and didn't stray away from the plan even 1 iota and keep in mind that guy had to convince Bell and Rogers...another great story would be Bob Nichelson in Edmonton he replaced their front-office with Koala and Chiarelli and boom turn around. It's almost comical what one guy aside from Nurse and Looch can do to even make non fans wanting to watch Oilers games that's a generational player right there.

How many Cups have Edmonton and Toronto won in this century? Maybe we should wait until they have some success before praising their success. 

Also, Chris Ilitch has been CEO of Ilitch Holdings since 2010. Nothing about his authority has changed. 

And finally, in regards to the "rebuild" and the comments of Holland and Devellano, you have to look past the semantics. There's no such thing as a "real rebuild". The fact is every single team, whether they want to or not, is constantly evolving. Declining in some ways, improving in others. Whatever label someone wants to attach to the process, we have in recent years been building toward the future.

Trying to stay competitive and trying to build for the future are not mutually exclusive. Think about it. What players currently in the system does everyone point to as potential building blocks? Pretty much all the guys we've added in these recent years when Holland was supposedly ruining our future for the sake of the streak. Would we really be any better off if we had Drouin, Bennett, and Strome instead of Mantha, Larkin, and Svechnikov? Even if you get a top pick it doesn't guarantee anything. Johnson, Hall, RNH, MacKinnon, Yakupov...even stars like Ovie, Stamkos, and Tavares haven't won anything or even been good enough to make the playoffs every year. In fact, of the 26 1st-overall picks made in the course of the Wings' streak, only 3 ever won a Cup. 

That's part of what Holland means in saying there's no guarantees with a rebuild. Ovie is the 2nd best player of his generation, Washington has the 5th best cap-era record, about to win their 3rd PT, and never been past the 2nd round. Every team in the league has "rebuilt" multiple times since the Wings' last missed the playoffs, and most have nothing to show for it. So no guarantee that tanking will get you the top pick, or that the top pick will be a great player, or that a great player will bring you a cup.... meanwhile, the Wings and Boston built Cup winners without really tanking. San Jose and the Rangers haven't won anything, but at least built good teams. There are still very good players, even stars, found outside the lottery picks. Just have to get lucky. Sure, looking at it in isolation, "hope to get lucky" seems like a s***ty strategy, but in the context of reality...where every strategy requires a fair amount of luck, it's not nearly as foolish as people try to act like it is.

The one thing we could have done that might have put us further ahead now is the one thing that no one would have wanted. Trade Datsyuk and Zetterberg when Lidstrom retired. We would have been terrible for a few years probably, but maybe now we'd still have all the good young pieces we do, plus maybe a young star or two. Would it have been worth it? I don't know. I think I'd still rather be us than Edmonton, and odds are tanking wouldn't have landed us McDavid. Definitely rather be us than Buffalo.

[Dabura 12,207]

44 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Sometimes I think WIIM exists solely to ensure that the internet doesn't run out of stupid.

Eh, I linked them more for the "scoop" than the analysis.

Like I said, I don't think Holland's comments necessarily run counter to Devellano's. Ultimately, it's a non-story. I'm just a bit disappointed that he's still speaking through that PR filter of his. "People say they want this. (Strawman.) Well, that's not realistic. People don't consider that, but I consider it, because I'm Ken Holland, General Manager of the Detroit Red Wings." It's a tired shtick.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Blah blah blah, just get in  blah blah blah, never know what can happen, blah blah blah, playoffs are the goal, blah blah blah, mediocrity is easy to achieve.

Edited April 1, 2017 by DickieDunn

[Buppy 1,720]

17 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Eh, I linked them more for the "scoop" than the analysis.

Like I said, I don't think Holland's comments necessarily run counter to Devellano's. Ultimately, it's a non-story. I'm just a bit disappointed that he's still speaking through that PR filter of his. "People say they want this. (Strawman.) Well, that's not realistic. People don't consider that, but I consider it, because I'm Ken Holland, General Manager of the Detroit Red Wings." It's a tired shtick.

Maybe, but ultimately anything he says is going to be "PR". 

Just now, DickieDunn said:

Blah blah blah, just get in  blah blah blah, never know what can happen, blah blah blah, playoffs are the goal.

Blah blah blah I want win the Cup every year, blah blah blah Billy's GM let him win the Cup, blah blah blah I hate you, Kenny, dumb doodoohead!

[kickazz 5,459]

Dickie and Jonas get -1 for their terrible rebuttals today. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by kickazz

[Dabura 12,207]

30 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Maybe, but ultimately anything he says is going to be "PR".

You know what I mean, though. He's saying exactly what you'd expect him to say, no deviation from the script. That's not inherently "bad," but, personally, I much preferred Devellano's more candid and thoughtful take. I found it refreshing.

Again, though, I imagine Holland and Devallano are both on the same page, more or less. Just a difference in how they're describing things to the media.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

You know what I mean, though. He's saying exactly what you'd expect him to say, no deviation from the script. That's not inherently "bad," but, personally, I much preferred Devellano's more candid and thoughtful take. I found it refreshing.

Again, though, I imagine Holland and Devallano are both on the same page, more or less. Just a difference in how they're describing things to the media.

I liked Devallanos take too. But devs head aint on the block. Havent seen one posts/thread/headline suggesting he should be fired or step away. Hes got more room to be honest uncle jim, who hands you a barley pop and tells you how it really is.

Hollands gonna Holland. Comes with the territory. He represents all of management and thus in a way the franchise itself. Its why we have so many Holland jokes/posts etc. He has to constantly play defense while Jim is off at the water cooler calling Mantha lazy.

Edited April 2, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,207]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I liked Devallanos take too. But devs head aint on the block. Havent seen one posts/thread/headline suggesting he should be fired or step away. Hes got more room to be honest uncle jim, who hands you a barley pop and tells you how it really is.

Hollands gonna Holland. Comes with the territory. He represents all of management and thus in a way the franchise itself. Its why we have so many Holland jokes/posts etc. He has to constantly play defense.

I fully agree with you about Devellano. And I agree that Holland's gonna Holland -- I'm just not convinced he has to. I don't think he'd get himself or anyone else into any kind of trouble if we were to say what Devellano said.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

23 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I fully agree with you about Devellano. And I agree that Holland's gonna Holland -- I'm just not convinced he has to. I don't think he'd get himself or anyone else into any kind of trouble if we were to say what Devellano said.

Well i guess thats just what makes Devallano Devallano and Holland Holland

[Dabura 12,207]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Well i guess thats just what makes Devallano Devallano and Holland Holland

Indeed. For better or for worse.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Blah blah blah I want win the Cup every year, blah blah blah Billy's GM let him win the Cup, blah blah blah I hate you, Kenny, dumb doodoohead!

The goal is the Cup. What has Holland done the last 3 years to win a Cup?

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

The goal is the Cup. What has Holland done the last 3 years to win a Cup?

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Signed players. Drafted players. Traded players. 

[Buppy 1,720]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

You know what I mean, though. He's saying exactly what you'd expect him to say, no deviation from the script. That's not inherently "bad," but, personally, I much preferred Devellano's more candid and thoughtful take. I found it refreshing.

Again, though, I imagine Holland and Devallano are both on the same page, more or less. Just a difference in how they're describing things to the media.

What was so candid and thoughtful about Devellano's comments?

He said you need stars, and you need to draft high to get them, and we haven't drafted high because we've been too good. Holland has said similar things in the past and been blasted for making excuses. 

He said we've been trying to keep the streak alive (as if that wasn't obvious). When Holland has said we want to be competitive and get in the playoffs, people here turn it into another idiot meme. Why wasn't it a breath of fresh air then? Or do you mean the, "bit us in the rear this year" part? What does that even mean? Would our losing have been less lose-y if it had been intentional? 

If anything, I'd say Devellano is pandering to fans. Like I said in my previous post, we have been rebuilding, regardless of what term anyone wants to use to describe it. Devellano says "the rebuild is on", I think he's just trying to say what fans want to hear. Trying to spin our losing into a reason to be hopeful. Kenny 'sticking to his script' at least shows some conviction.

I do wish Kenny would stop with the "massive rebuild" talk, since that isn't what fans are really asking for. I doubt there are many, if any, who think we need to gut the team completely and start from scratch. But at the same time, if as a fan you recognize that we don't need that, you should then also recognize that we have been building for the future all along.

That we've been able to add what we have without sucking so far is something we should be proud of, not something that should have us breaking out the torches and pitchforks. Chicago was out of the playoffs for quite a while before they landed Kane and Toews, Five top 10 picks, plus a few more in the top half of the 1st round, but none of that really contributed to their Cup wins. Keith was a late 2nd rounder. Aside from that, they didn't "build" any more than we have without tanking, and what they did get were from later picks they could have had without sucking.

We need to stop acting like "preserving the streak" was some great organizational mistake.