Jacob Trouba

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I didn't say he was offensively inept.  I said he's a good 2-3 defenseman, which his numbers indicate.  You seem to be arguing that if you give him 25 minutes a night AND a ton of powerplay time, that he'll score more (something that's true of every single player in the league).  But there's a reason why his team has been unwilling to give those kinds of minutes to Trouba (unless forced to by Myers injury).  And I suspect that the reason why is because they don't think he's as capable as people like you do.  So why spend the assets on him before he proves otherwise?  If the plays out his contract in Winnipeg, earns the ice time, and puts up points I'd be happy to sign him.  I'm just not convinced of this vast potential that everyone else seems to really believe in.

I'm not suggesting any of that, I'm not even a big fan of the kid, I'm trying to figure out why you're selling him so far short.

This season...

Trouba averaged 20.5 minutes a night even strength. 3 minutes of PK. 1.5 of PP. (same amount of PP works as Myers btw) ---- 45 pts

Hamilton averaged 16.25 minutes of even strength. 1 minute of PK. 2.25 of PP. ---- 50 pts

Trouba plays way heavier/tougher minutes and was only on pace for 5 pts less, yet you act like he has something to prove, whereas Hamilton is bonafide legit.

[kipwinger 8,522]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not suggesting any of that, I'm not even a big fan of the kid, I'm trying to figure out why you're selling him so far short.

This season...

Trouba averaged 20.5 minutes a night even strength. 3 minutes of PK. 1.5 of PP. (same amount of PP works as Myers btw) ---- 45 pts

Hamilton averaged 16.25 minutes of even strength. 1 minute of PK. 2.25 of PP. ---- 50 pts

Trouba plays way heavier/tougher minutes and was only on pace for 5 pts less, yet you act like he has something to prove, whereas Hamilton is bonafide legit.

That's because Myers only played 11 games.  If he's healthy, all those 5 on 5 and powerplay minutes go to him, and Trouba's numbers fall (just like they did a year ago).  It's really not that hard to figure out why I don't think he's as good as everyone else does.  He hasn't earned any ice time, his numbers this year were inflated because of an injury to someone else, and they weren't even that impressive to begin with when you consider he had entirely favorable conditions in which to put them up.  I used Hamilton as an example of a guy who scored early and often at a young age, something Trouba's fans seem to think is hard to do (despite tons of guys doing it). 

[kipwinger 8,522]

Just now, Jonas Mahonas said:

Which is something we need.  Did DeKeyser put up 33 pts and plus 4 this year as our #2?  No.  Our #2 was 12 pts and -22.  Trouba even outpaced our #1 defenseman.  I think a lot of you think we have Lidstrom still!

 

 

Two years ago, when Dekeyser got similar ice time, and powerplay time as Trouba, he scored 31 points.  THIS is precisely my point.  Feeding a guy minutes their skill set doesn't suggest they've earned will increase their numbers, but WON'T make your team better.  Ian White had a career year in Detroit because he got tons of minutes and played with Lidstrom, but that didn't make him a better player or the Wings a better team.  It was only good for Ian White.  We still had to suffer through a middling defenseman playing minutes WAY above his head.  Jacob Trouba hasn't proven he's a top defenseman, so I'm opposed to giving up the assets or salary of a top defenseman for him. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's because Myers only played 11 games.  If he's healthy, all those 5 on 5 and powerplay minutes go to him, and Trouba's numbers fall (just like they did a year ago).  It's really not that hard to figure out why I don't think he's as good as everyone else does.  He hasn't earned any ice time, his numbers this year were inflated because of an injury to someone else, and they weren't even that impressive to begin with when you consider he had entirely favorable conditions in which to put them up.  I used Hamilton as an example of a guy who scored early and often at a young age, something Trouba's fans seem to think is hard to do (despite tons of guys doing it). 

Myers has never been favored over Trouba by Winnipeg.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

If people think the Wings could get Trouba for peanuts they are in for a huge surprise.  If all it would take is AA + a first I'd do it as I would have done Larkin for Trouba straight up because Trouba instantly becomes the Wings best young player and he also fixes the most needed position which is defense. He has good size, is a Michigan boy and brings some much needed experience at his young age. Everyone knows he is not going to sign an extension with the Jets.

I could see Trouba - Dekeyser working very well together.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I do love Trouba.  And I would give up AA or Larkin for him.  But I also realize our GM is too stupid to realize a proven 1B/2A defenseman is more valueable than a 2nd line center with potential.  Here's a truth Red Wings fans need to accept - Larkin and Athanasiou are just GOOD.  They are NOT future Jack Eichels or future Auston Matthews.

You're stating this like there's the possibility of a one for one trade. There isn't because everyone realizes a "1B/2A defenseman is more valueable than a 2nd line center with potential." 

So you'd have compare value beyond just trading one.

Edited April 12, 2017 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Trading AA or Larkin for Trouba is making a hole to fill another. 

If it costs a ton, then don't bother. You cannot take away from the core up front. AA, Larkin and Mantha should be untouchable. But hey, Holland can always trade all three, draft Hakan Sweden and we'll be fine!

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Trouba, Wheeler, and Bufyglien for Nyquist, Abdelkader, Howard, Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Sheahan, Tatar, Miller, and Green.

Cup in 2018.

I think you are genuinely serious about this, which is hilarious.

1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

If people think the Wings could get Trouba for peanuts they are in for a huge surprise.  If all it would take is AA + a first I'd do it as I would have done Larkin for Trouba straight up because Trouba instantly becomes the Wings best young player and he also fixes the most needed position which is defense. He has good size, is a Michigan boy and brings some much needed experience at his young age. Everyone knows he is not going to sign an extension with the Jets.

I could see Trouba - Dekeyser working very well together.

How would he fix our defense? Winnipeg's defense was worse than ours (and has been over the whole of Trouba's career there). He's a good player, been a good player for all 4 years he's been in the league, but not good enough to make a bad team better. That's probably not going to change.

I don't think we could get him for peanuts, but that doesn't mean we should pay any asking price. We should not be so desperate to add Trouba; he isn't worth desperation. There's only a tiny chance that a pick in the 7-10 range ends up better than Trouba (and this year from the sound of it, even top 3 probably won't), but I still wouldn't do even just our 1st. We can find players with similar impact for cheaper. People like to s*** on Dekeyser, Green, Smith, Kronwall even when he was scoring 40+, etc... but, again, our defense has been better than Winnipeg's. 

Go after him as a FA in three years. We will hopefully be heading back into contention then and have a decent chunk of cap space. Since he's from here that should give us an edge. If someone locks him up before then and he turns into the next Hedman, oh well. 

[NerveDamage 4,176]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Trading AA or Larkin for Trouba is making a hole to fill another. 

If it costs a ton, then don't bother. You cannot take away from the core up front. AA, Larkin and Mantha should be untouchable. But hey, Holland can always trade all three, draft Hakan Sweden and we'll be fine!

you're Damn Right!

 

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Trading AA or Larkin for Trouba is making a hole to fill another. 

If it costs a ton, then don't bother. You cannot take away from the core up front. AA, Larkin and Mantha should be untouchable. But hey, Holland can always trade all three, draft Hakan Sweden and we'll be fine!

Well who we draft this year i a huge factor. If we get lucky and land #1 and get Patrick, we will have the luxury of being able to get rid of one of our forwards. We have zero studs in waiting on D. Who is our best D prospect? Hicketts? Kid may be good, but not 1A good.

[Buppy 1,720]

Why did we start this "1A" garbage? In what way were the numbers 1-6, that everyone in hockey has used for generations (and also 1 fewer character to type), insufficient?

Especially odd since "1A" and "1B" designations are typically used to describe two things that are essentially equal, such that it would be unfair to refer to either as a "2".

[Hockey11 0]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Trading AA or Larkin for Trouba is making a hole to fill another. 

If it costs a ton, then don't bother. You cannot take away from the core up front. AA, Larkin and Mantha should be untouchable. But hey, Holland can always trade all three, draft Hakan Sweden and we'll be fine!

Right now this team is a minimum of two years away.  Let Holland assume the role of President and horde as many draft picks and cap space as possible  while GM, to give Yzerman a nice statting pallet to work with to start the 2019 season.  I trust Holland and staff's ability to draft players and will have some nice high picks in the next couple years along with a wealth in the later rounds to develop.

I'd much rather  use any available cap space on taking flyers on some reclamation free agents for a year and see if you can flip them at the trade deadline.  In a couple years, we'll be in much better shape cap wise as well to make a big splash with free agents and hopefully some solid prospects and current roster players available to possibly flip in making a move like acquiring a Trouba type player.  

 

 

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Well who we draft this year i a huge factor. If we get lucky and land #1 and get Patrick, we will have the luxury of being able to get rid of one of our forwards. We have zero studs in waiting on D. Who is our best D prospect? Hicketts? Kid may be good, but not 1A good.

But the context was that Trouba would cost both our 1st rounder AND something like AA/Larkin/Mantha.