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kickazz

Chris Illitch speaks: Holland will stay - Blashill's future is up to Holland.

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3 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Sure let's prolong the rebuild even further. Like I said if this season doesn't tell even the most rose colored glasses wearing people what needs to happen nothing will.

Bolded part doesn't make things different because Wings could have done the same and the would have some young studs in the lineup right now.

See and this is why missing out on Lombardi could backfire there won't be a better GM available anytime soon if Yzerman decides to sign an extension in Tampa. Lombardi has gone through a rebuild and succesfully finished it of with 2 stanley cups.

We well see if Chris is pulling a PR stunt or not maybe it's a show me year for almost everyone in the organization and if it doesn't work out, he will go full Shanahan. I just hope Chris will veto any longterm contracts to veterans. The wings need to sign guys to year contracts and PTOS and then flip them for picks at the trade dead line.

So Frank, how is your tanking strategy working for Buffao, Arizona, Colorado, Carolina, Florida? You really seem to believe that tanking guarantees success, maybe those rose colored glasses you always talk about are looking back at you in the mirror. 

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9 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Sure let's prolong the rebuild even further. Like I said if this season doesn't tell even the most rose colored glasses wearing people what needs to happen nothing will.

Bolded part doesn't make things different because Wings could have done the same and the would have some young studs in the lineup right now.

So our GM should be fired for missing the playoffs once, but we also should have missed the playoffs 6 years in a row so that we'd have the young studs that the KIngs have? You must see how that doesn't work out. 

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1 minute ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

So our GM should be fired for missing the playoffs once, but we also should have missed the playoffs 6 years in a row so that we'd have the young studs that the KIngs have? You must see how that doesn't work out. 

You can't bring logic to an emotional argument. 

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So Frank, how is your tanking strategy working for Buffao, Arizona, Colorado, Carolina, Florida? You really seem to believe that tanking guarantees success, maybe those rose colored glasses you always talk about are looking back at you in the mirror. 


So Kliq how is your keep the streak alive at all costs strategy working? Florida, Arizona and Colorado are internal budget teams and if Sakic moves one of the big 3 for a top pairing defenseman plus lands Suter or Gallant the Avalanche could be back very soon.

I would easily change this roster for Buffalo's. You really seem to think keeping the status quo and hoping to strike gold is going to guarantee success. Well newsflash each time is scouring the top European leagues now so no more hiding top players in the later rounds.

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Really? Not surprising if it's true. The guy obviously doesn't know when enough is enough. If he looked at his stats from this season and saw that he was a liability and negative presence on the ice and his blunders and mobility issues resulted in quite a few goals against and still won't hang em up before he completely ruins any good memories fans have of him, the Wings are screwed. Honestly, the ONLY player on the team who should be able to control his own future with the team is Z. Kronwall needs to sit or go to GR and help out down there. Just ridiculous.

Careful, remember last year when people we're talking s*** about Zetterberg and calling him "Washed-up" and calling for his head with a guillotine? And what did Zetterberg do this season? Let's give Kronwall a chance, next season. Personally I thought Kronwall was doing pretty well the last two months or so. 

Edited by kickazz

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So Frank, how is your tanking strategy working for Buffao, Arizona, Colorado, Carolina, Florida? You really seem to believe that tanking guarantees success, maybe those rose colored glasses you always talk about are looking back at you in the mirror. 




So our GM should be fired for missing the playoffs once, but we also should have missed the playoffs 6 years in a row so that we'd have the young studs that the KIngs have? You must see how that doesn't work out. 


Who said fired? He should have moved up a long time ago so the captain could take over. You brought up the argument with the picks the Kings received, well the Wings could have done the same thing but they didn't it's their fault and not the Kings. So hardly an emotional argument it's a fact.

Of course replacing Lombardi with Blake is a huge risk and I think the Kings will regret this decision because Lombardi is easily a top 4 GM in the game. Other than Bowman, Stevie and Poile there really isn't anyone better.

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Just now, frankgrimes said:

So Kliq how is your keep the streak alive at all costs strategy working? Florida, Arizona and Colorado are internal budget teams and if Sakic moves one of the big 3 for a top pairing defenseman plus lands Suter or Gallant the Avalanche could be back very soon.

I would easily change this roster for Buffalo's. You really seem to think keeping the status quo and hoping to strike gold is going to guarantee success. Well newsflash each time is scouring the top European leagues now so no more hiding top players in the later rounds.

When did I say this Frank? I dare you to find a single post where I say that we need to keep the streak alive at all costs. "Newsflash" it won't happen.

You seem to think that tanking guarantees success, and then when you are proved wrong just make excuses. I have never said that I want the status quo to be followed, once again you are putting words in my mouth. 

I would prefer we go the Toronto route which I know you mistakenly think was tanking. With the exception of maybe 1 season (last year) they didnt tank. They traded Kessel, Pheunef, Clackson and some spare parts but kept alot of their team in tact. I would like us to shed some of the bad contracts we have, and build with our kids. Hopefully we win the lottery this year and land Patrick, and hopefully we trade for Trouba. We do this and I think we are in a very good spot.

What I do not want is to trade every single player on this team, and hope to potentially be a playoff team in 6 years. That's wearing rose colored glasses.

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When did I say this Frank? I dare you to find a single post where I say that we need to keep the streak alive at all costs. "Newsflash" it won't happen.

You seem to think that tanking guarantees success, and then when you are proved wrong just make excuses. I have never said that I want the status quo to be followed, once again you are putting words in my mouth. 

I would prefer we go the Toronto route which I know you mistakenly think was tanking. With the exception of maybe 1 season (last year) they didnt tank. They traded Kessel, Pheunef, Clackson and some spare parts but kept alot of their team in tact. I would like us to shed some of the bad contracts we have, and build with our kids. Hopefully we win the lottery this year and land Patrick, and hopefully we trade for Trouba. We do this and I think we are in a very good spot.

What I do not want is to trade every single player on this team, and hope to potentially be a playoff team in 6 years. That's wearing rose colored glasses.

 

See I just took your argument the same way. Where did I say I want to trade every veteran? I would keep Up and Kronner on LTIR, leak that Green is available, sign 1 year veteran contracts and flip them for picks and like you give the kids a chance. it's important to see who could be part of the future.

 

I'm not saying tanking guarantees anything but when drafts have almost guaranteed future studs it's worth it to play the kids and be bad while the learns. I'm even at the point where I don't get mad anymore at some pressers because I know what's going to come but this doesn't mean that I don't want to see a real rebuild does it guarantee anything? no but I'd rather take my chances with some can't miss prospects than hoping some support players turn out better than expected that's all I'm saying.

 

I mean it wouldn't have hurt to call up some Griffin's for the last games, lose and increase the chances at Patrick. I agree Patrick, Trouba would go a long way

 

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Careful, remember last year when people we're talking s*** about Zetterberg and calling him "Washed-up" and calling for his head with a guillotine? And what did Zetterberg do this season? Let's give Kronwall a chance, next season. Personally I thought Kronwall was doing pretty well the last two months or so. 

That's true about Z, but Z also is a hell of a lot more skilled and mobile than Kronwall. Maybe if Kronwall wasn't playing 20+ minutes a game still. If Blash is still around, he needs to cut his minutes big time.

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3 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

That's true about Z, but Z also is a hell of a lot more skilled and mobile than Kronwall. Maybe if Kronwall wasn't playing 20+ minutes a game still. If Blash is still around, he needs to cut his minutes big time.

Nobody wants to go out s***tily. I presume Kronwall wants to prove he's still got it. Maybe he'll be better next year with reduced minutes and a puck moving partner (Jensen?) 

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9 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Nobody wants to go out s***tily. I presume Kronwall wants to prove he's still got it. Maybe he'll be better next year with reduced minutes and a puck moving partner (Jensen?) 

Guess we'll find out, cause Holland will let him do what he wants, so Blash will too. Even if he's even slower and more of a liability, he'll never sit. If he does play better though, good for him.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

See I just took your argument the same way. Where did I say I want to trade every veteran? I would keep Up and Kronner on LTIR, leak that Green is available, sign 1 year veteran contracts and flip them for picks and like you give the kids a chance. it's important to see who could be part of the future.

I'm not saying tanking guarantees anything but when drafts have almost guaranteed future studs it's worth it to play the kids and be bad while the learns. I'm even at the point where I don't get mad anymore at some pressers because I know what's going to come but this doesn't mean that I don't want to see a real rebuild does it guarantee anything? no but I'd rather take my chances with some can't miss prospects than hoping some support players turn out better than expected that's all I'm saying.

I mean it wouldn't have hurt to call up some Griffin's for the last games, lose and increase the chances at Patrick. I agree Patrick, Trouba would go a long way

In this thread you didnt say that, but in previous threads you have said you wanted to "burn it down" "scorched earth" which to me implies getting rid of everybody.

The second part I agree with you, I do wish we played more of the kids. I wish Holland didnt make the Datsyuk trade, drafted Chuchrun, played him, and I wish Blashill played guys like AA & Mantha from the start and stopped playing guys like MIller. I'm sick of seeing guys like Sproul and Jurco in the press box while guys like Miller, Glendening etc. play every game.

The last part I agree with as well. See we dont disagree on everything lol.

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10 minutes ago, kliq said:

 

The second part I agree with you, I do wish we played more of the kids. I wish Holland didnt make the Datsyuk trade, drafted Chuchrun, played him, and I wish Blashill played guys like AA & Mantha from the start and stopped playing guys like MIller. I'm sick of seeing guys like Sproul and Jurco in the press box while guys like Miller, Glendening etc. play every game.

This. :thumbup:

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This team started to suffer around the time Mr. I's health started to fail and he could only give what little energy he had left to the Tigers. We all thought Chris would turn things around, and he didn't. Now his dad is gone, and he doesn't have to run anything by anyone (if that was his excuse)...time to stop playing the status quo game. 

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I'm not surprised that he's coming back. I've always been 50/50 on whether Stevie would return and still am (I can see him sticking to 1 team as a GM, just like he did as a player), but I just can't help but think (and hope) that maybe their letting Holland finish off his contract and then attempt to bring Stevie in. Their contracts expire at the same time and it doesn't make sense to bring another GM in only for a year, or bring another GM in now for several years and pass up the opportunity on Stevie. 

I'm basing this off of nothing, just a thought. 

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While I'm not happy with management's decision to keep everyone and his dog, I think it would have been a stretch to fire Holland right now. Probably not the most popular sentence i'll ever write on here, but step outside the box for a second. This guy was in charge of what, nearly 20 years of consecutive playoff appearances, and then we miss one season. Really? Just looking at that, would you fire him? 

On closer inspection, then we have the long, blundering contracts we're now laboured with, and hiring a coach who I don't think gets the best out of his players. And yea, when you analyse the trends over the last 3 seasons, since we got beaten by chicago, then you have an argument. But at this stage, it's probably a knee jerk response to fire KH

I see also that we're all pining for Stevie Y to come back and be the GM, and I'd love that, but I think we're all sort of acting like that guy who's really into that girl who says she'll leave her boyfriend. Well guess what. She never does leave her boyfriend. Why wouldn't Tampa lock up Yzerman long term? He's been frankly excellent and even missing the playoffs this year, they're in great shape. 

I still think the right move would have been to fire Blashill, given the coaches out there on the market this summer, but also it seems to me that management is sort of in denial about doing this whole rebuild thing. Our D is atrocious, and badly has been needing a proper youth movement for 6 years now. Up front we're looking quite solid with larkin, AA, Mantha, Svech and one or two other pieces, and if Mrazek can bounce back then we're set at G. 

But really, they need to do this properly, and have 2 bad years and trade some assets for a top D man and hope that Cholowski turns into the next Chelios. 

Ofc I'm not expert, but I've watched the same as everyone else has this season with Blashill benching guys he should be playing, and sticking Sheahan and other turds in positions they really shouldn't be. Hopefully the only good thing about Blashill coming back is that he'll be on an incredibly short leash (one can only hope). But really, I'd rather they just be bad next season and miss the playoffs also so we can at least stockpile two good picks. I have a feeling however, KH will do his utmost to try and sign an ageing free agent or two this offseason just to make us semi relevant that we might try and squeeze back in only to be bounced in the first round.

Edited by wings4thecup06

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*puts on devil's advocate hat*

14 hours ago, Detroit # 1 Fan said:

Maybe after back to back bottom 10 finishes management will get that Holland isn't the answer anymore. The Kings miss the playoffs after two cups in 5 years and clean out Lombardi and Sutter, we make the playoffs on the last day of the season for three years in a row then bottom out and no changes are planned. Funny how things work.

Thing is, the Wings need consecutive bottom-ten finishes. We are a bottom feeder that needs to bottom feed for a few years and stock up on high-end young talent. Barring a miracle, that's the only path back to greatness. Our Cup window is closed; there's nothing left to do but reset. So, in Holland's defense, he's overseen a lot of winning and now he needs to oversee some losing, which should be well within his abilities (or lack thereof).

The Kings' Cup window is still open; it's Cup or bust for them. In that sense, they severely underperformed this season. That's why Sutter and Lombardi were axed. And, like PavelValerievichDatsyuk pointed out, the success the Kings have enjoyed over the past few years was largely born of failure. Doughty, arguably the best defenseman in hockey, was drafted 2nd overall. Kopitar, a Selke-caliber franchise centerman, was drafted 11th overall.

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What makes everyone think Yzerman can get the team to a Cup? TB was better than Detroit is now when he took over and they're not any better now than they were then, if not worse than they were. Ditto for Nil. He took a bad team, made them ok, them bad again because of the mess in net.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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49 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

What makes everyone think Yzerman can get the team to a Cup? TB was better than Detroit is now when he took over and they're not any better now than they were then, if not worse than they were. Ditto for Nil. He took a bad team, made them ok, them bad again because of the mess in net.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Same reason you wanted Daryl Sutter in the other thread. Something about track record but ignoring the last year entirely.

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

What makes everyone think Yzerman can get the team to a Cup? TB was better than Detroit is now when he took over and they're not any better now than they were then, if not worse than they were. Ditto for Nil. He took a bad team, made them ok, them bad again because of the mess in net.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Seriously?  

They made the Finals in 2015 and had Chicago in trouble before blowing the series.  Last year, they took a great Penguins team to 7 games in the Conference Finals.  If not for bad luck with injuries, they'd be in the playoffs again this year, as they barely missed out.

We must not be talking about the same team.   

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