Targets for the Wings

[Andy Pred 48 337]

I'm looking at the USA roster for the world's and maybe Blashill could be having a chat with some in a view to come to Detroit.

Dan Brickley D big offensive puck moving player from the NCAA. Not attached to any NHL team

Andy Copp ufa currently with the Jets, local guy hailing from Ann Arbor could be a useful bottom 6 guy to replace Miller. 

At the same time he could try and soften up Trouba 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I don't think he'd have to soften up Trouba, I believe he'd be all for coming to Detroit. Trouba would have to soften up Chevy to accept a lower price...

..here's an interesting thought to kick around. With so many playoff disappointments, this year included, what if Minnesota decided to ask Suter to give them a list of teams he'd accept a trade to, and if one of those teams were Detroit, would you still want him and what would you be willing to give up?

[BadgerBob 297]

40 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I don't think he'd have to soften up Trouba, I believe he'd be all for coming to Detroit. Trouba would have to soften up Chevy to accept a lower price...

..here's an interesting thought to kick around. With so many playoff disappointments, this year included, what if Minnesota decided to ask Suter to give them a list of teams he'd accept a trade to, and if one of those teams were Detroit, would you still want him and what would you be willing to give up?

That contract is so long...I donno.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 hours ago, BadgerBob said:

That contract is so long...

Can confirm.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/minnesota-wild/ryan-suter-1858/

$7.5M cap hit for the next eight years, for a 32-year-old defenseman who's got a lot of miles on the odometer.

Hard pass.

[kliq 3,755]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Can confirm.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/minnesota-wild/ryan-suter-1858/

$7.5M cap hit for the next eight years, for a 32-year-old defenseman who's got a lot of miles on the odometer.

Hard pass.

100% agreed. It would be one thing if we signed him while we were still in contention, but taking his contract now would just be a bad move. While he would still be elite, we would not be contenders. Then when/if we become contenders, he would likely be in regression and ridiculously overpaid.

There could be a year or two of overlap where he is worth it, but not worth screwing our cap for almost a decade.

[Dabura 12,207]

5 minutes ago, kliq said:

100% agreed. It would be one thing if we signed him while we were still in contention, but taking his contract now would just be a bad move. While he would still be elite, we would not be contenders. Then when/if we become contenders, he would likely be in regression and ridiculously overpaid.

There could be a year or two of overlap where he is worth it, but not worth screwing our cap for almost a decade.

Hell, I'm not sure I'd even classify him as an elite defenseman at this point in his career.

Also, we're talking about a trade scenario. So, we'd be adding an albatross contract and we'd be parting with at least a couple significant assets. Which...just...no. So much no.

[kliq 3,755]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Hell, I'm not sure I'd even classify him as an elite defenseman at this point in his career.

Also, we're talking about a trade scenario. So, we'd be adding an albatross contract and we'd be parting with at least a couple significant assets. Which...just...no. So much no.

I didn't even think about that, good points. I was just thinking of it in terms of a salary dump on Minny end. 

I think Lidstrom has skewed my way of looking at D-man. The guy stayed so good so late into his career, that I forgot how most guys to start to regress in their mid 30's.

[BadgerBob 297]

26 minutes ago, kliq said:

I didn't even think about that, good points. I was just thinking of it in terms of a salary dump on Minny end. 

I think Lidstrom has skewed my way of looking at D-man. The guy stayed so good so late into his career, that I forgot how most guys to start to regress in their mid 30's.

Parise's contract is even worse. I'll be surprised if he plays that out. 

[Dabura 12,207]

On 4/26/2017 at 8:16 PM, kliq said:

I didn't even think about that, good points. I was just thinking of it in terms of a salary dump on Minny end.

I mean, it's all moot anyway, as Suter absolutely will not request a trade this summer or next season.

http://www.twincities.com/2015/09/04/wild-star-ryan-suter-working-hard-to-keep-his-fathers-legacy-alive/

http://www.startribune.com/ryan-suter-enjoying-life-in-minnesota-on-off-the-ice/412066493/#1

CliffsNotes: Suter wants to be in Minnesota. He signed with the Wild for family reasons and he and his family are the picture of domestic contentment.

On the hockey side of things: the Wild are coming off their most impressive regular season in franchise history and appear to have finally pryed open a Cup window -- and Suter is a big part of that. So, even if Suter were to request a trade this summer or next season, Chuck Fletcher would talk him out of it. After 15 years of mostly mediocre hockey, the Wild are looking like legitimate contenders (despite their first-round exit this season). They want to win now. Future cap woes = the cost of Cup contention.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Yah, he's pretty entrenched in Minnesota now, but remember, he at first chose Detroit, his wife (maybe girlfriend at the time) didn't want to live here. So he then chose Minnesota. That's per Bob McKenzie. None of it matters now. I'm sure he'll retire a Wild, but I'm betting he never wins a Cup there.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2017/04/goalies-wanted-desperate.html

Could be one of thedestinations for Howard. Package deal upcoming? Defense coming back to us? We'll see!

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Howard, Tatar, draft pick for Trouba?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The issue with Howard is his injury history. He gets hurt every year, and most of the time is terrible after he comes back. Maybe a GM will believe this year was the norm going forward though.

The other issue is Sit On His Hands Holland. I don't see him trading Howard.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Howard, Tatar, draft pick for Trouba?

Pretty sure Winnipeg wanted Larkin as a starting point. I would love to make the trade you suggested, but it's just not happening. If we get Trouba, I am almost sure one of Larkin, AA, or Mantha are going the other way. I could see AA/Howard/2nd round pick for Trouba.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Would Mrazek, Tatar, pick get it closer?

I know I'm a mrazek fan, but I think I'd rather trade him before any of my three core members...maybe they'd want more of the playmaker in Nyquist to dish it off to Laine...

2 hours ago, kliq said:

Pretty sure Winnipeg wanted Larkin as a starting point. I would love to make the trade you suggested, but it's just not happening. If we get Trouba, I am almost sure one of Larkin, AA, or Mantha are going the other way. I could see AA/Howard/2nd round pick for Trouba.

Dang it, I wish we had something else to offer...

[Dabura 12,207]

22 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Yah, he's pretty entrenched in Minnesota now, but remember, he at first chose Detroit, his wife (maybe girlfriend at the time) didn't want to live here. So he then chose Minnesota. That's per Bob McKenzie.

I kinda-sorta remember Suter/Parise selling Parise/Suter on Minnesota and Suter's then-girlfriend (now wife?) being a big factor. I don't recall McKenzie saying Suter straight-up chose Detroit and was overruled by his girlfriend, but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Dabura 12,207]

I doubt there's much interest in Howard.

• 33 years old
• Only 37 games played last season, due in large part to injury
• Only 26 games played this season, due in large part to injury
• $5.291M cap hit for the next two years

Conventional wisdom advises against paying big money for non-elite goaltending. So...yeah. A team would have to be really desperate. And we don't even know if Holland is interested in moving Howard.

For what it's worth, George McPhee has said he might try to corner the goalie market by taking a number of goalies in the expansion draft.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I kinda-sorta remember Suter/Parise selling Parise/Suter on Minnesota and Suter's then-girlfriend (now wife?) being a big factor. I don't recall McKenzie saying Suter straight-up chose Detroit and was overruled by his girlfriend, but I'll take your word for it.

 

Of course I can't find the audio. It was a 97.1 interview with him this year and he mentioned that Suter wanted to come to Detroit, but his girlfriend didn't want to live here. Until I find it, it's just hearsay...

[Dabura 12,207]

22 hours ago, kliq said:

Pretty sure Winnipeg wanted Larkin as a starting point. I would love to make the trade you suggested, but it's just not happening. If we get Trouba, I am almost sure one of Larkin, AA, or Mantha are going the other way. I could see AA/Howard/2nd round pick for Trouba.

Yeah. At this time, Trouba is probably a pipe dream. I don't think AA + Howard + 2nd gets you anywhere close; Howard is high-risk (possibly "negative trade value") and, right now, Trouba >>> AA. Ultimately, the Jets have every reason to keep Trouba and pretty much zero reason to move him.

I will say this, though: I didn't like the optics of his early-season holdout. He put himself above the team, and if it's true that he wanted more ice time and an increased role...then, honestly, he can f*** off. Because 1) again, that's putting yourself above the team; 2) earn it, kid; and 3) if he excels in an expanded role and makes a convincing case that he's The Real Deal (so far, so good), that's more money that he can demand when it comes time to negotiate his next contract -- which would be quite convenient for him.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the cynic in me suspects he and/or his agent is/are focused on What's Best for Jacob Trouba, What's Going to Get Jacob Trouba All the Moneys. I mean, I can't fault an agent for that. It's basically his job description. But the holdout and the way it was handled on Trouba's end was not a great look for Team Trouba.

I bring this up because if Trouba is simply angling for all the moneys, Cheveldayoff knows it. And if Cheveldayoff knows it, then you'd expect him to be planning ahead re: possibly having to trade Trouba. In which case, Trouba's $3M cap hit would give him options, flexibility. Point being, maybe Trouba isn't a pipe dream. Maybe he gets shopped around the trade deadline and fortune smiles on the Wings. Of course, if Trouba's all about the moneys, I'm not sure I'd want him. He could be a curse in disguise.

[/dreger]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Of course I can't find the audio. It was a 97.1 interview with him this year and he mentioned that Suter wanted to come to Detroit, but his girlfriend didn't want to live here. Until I find it, it's just hearsay...

Interesting. I'll have to look into that.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Suter was thinking about coming here, but he decided that he'd rather play with Parise closer to home.  There were rumors that his, or their, wives influenced that, but probably not as much as Minnesota throwing that ridiculous contract at Parise.

 

As to Howard, he's not "high paid."  His cap hit is 17th highest in the NHL.  Average starter money for an average starting goalie. https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2017/caphit/all/goalies

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Of course I can't find the audio. It was a 97.1 interview with him this year and he mentioned that Suter wanted to come to Detroit, but his girlfriend didn't want to live here. Until I find it, it's just hearsay...

I remember this also, but I don't think it was so much that his girlfriend/wife didnt want to come here, its that their families are from Minnesota and she wanted to be closer to home. To be fair, I can't blame her.

http://www.playerwives.com/nhl/minnesota-wild/ryan-suters-wife-becky-suter/

 

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Yeah. At this time, Trouba is probably a pipe dream. I don't think AA + Howard + 2nd gets you anywhere close; Howard is high-risk (possibly "negative trade value") and, right now, Trouba >>> AA. Ultimately, the Jets have every reason to keep Trouba and pretty much zero reason to move him.

I think saying it doesnt get anywhere close is a bit of an exaggeration, but I agree it likely doesn't get it done. If I amGM of Winnipeg and I feel that our young team just needs a goalie to get into the playoffs and I have the cap-room, why not bring a vet like Howard in, he's only under contract for 2 more years, and when he is on/healthy, he is very good. Low risk, high reward. I guess the key here is AA, it all depends on your opinion of him. Maybe the peg counters with AA/Howard/1st rounder.....who knows.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

More goaltender jive...

 

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I think saying it doesnt get anywhere close is a bit of an exaggeration, but I agree it likely doesn't get it done. If I amGM of Winnipeg and I feel that our young team just needs a goalie to get into the playoffs and I have the cap-room, why not bring a vet like Howard in, he's only under contract for 2 more years, and when he is on/healthy, he is very good. Low risk, high reward. I guess the key here is AA, it all depends on your opinion of him. Maybe the peg counters with AA/Howard/1st rounder.....who knows.

To me, it's more about Athanasiou. His appeal lies mostly in perceived potential; he's a middle-six winger right now, but maybe he becomes a beastly top-line forward. Problem there, of course, is there isn't much to suggest he's going to reach those heights. Not yet, anyway.

Trouba's impressed as a young defenseman in a league where it's brutally hard to excel as a young defenseman. This season he averaged roughly 25 minutes of ice time, playing in all situations and against top talent. He flourished in this role, showing well in both the basic stats and the possession metrics. Doesn't necessarily mean he's a bona fide 1D that you can build a championship team around, but, point is, he's shown he is, at the very least, a really good 3D (at age 23). His floor is probably a solid 2D.

AA has put up points in limited minutes, but he hasn't shown he can be a dominant force against top talent. Granted, that's not entirely his fault, as this was his first full season and Blashill believes he needs to grow his game before he can be fully trusted with big minutes against big guns. But, regardless, Trouba is much more of a "known" right now. And he's a defenseman. The market value of young, two-way top-four defensemen is high. Also: the Jets already have lots of really good young forwards, several of them easily outclassing AA at this point in time.

Trouba is the crown jewel of the Jets' D corps. If you're Cheveldayoff and your plan is to do whatever it takes to keep Trouba in Winnipeg, does AA + Howard + 2nd excite you? I don't dislike Howard, but I'm guessing most GMs see acquiring him as a measure of last resort, something to save for a rainy day. It might be possible to get what Howard could give you at a fraction of his cap hit, and I'm sure teams that desperately need to improve their goaltending are going to try to do just that, whether via trade or free agency. (And, again, I'm not sure Holland has any real interest in moving Howard in the first place.)

The hope, I guess, would be that Cheveldayoff decides he needs to move Trouba, maybe at the trade deadline, and that he's willing to accept a bit less than market value in return, because he needs to move Trouba. In that case, I could maybe see AA + Howard + 2nd getting it done. But then, I assume Cheveldayoff would have a number of GMs showing very serious interest (dat cap hit. Holy crap, dat cap hit), so I doubt we'd have much leverage.

All of this is just one more reason why we should be rooting for our prospects (Svechnikov, Hronek, et al.) to outperform expectations. It would give us good young talent, which would give us more trade options. At present, we're low on good young talent and trade options.

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Suter was thinking about coming here, but he decided that he'd rather play with Parise closer to home.  There were rumors that his, or their, wives influenced that, but probably not as much as Minnesota throwing that ridiculous contract at Parise.

That's more or less how I remember it, yeah.

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

As to Howard, he's not "high paid."  His cap hit is 17th highest in the NHL.  Average starter money for an average starting goalie. https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2017/caphit/all/goalies

Is he a starting goalie, though? Is he one that [x team] believes could be a significant upgrade over [other option(s)]? I mean, it's possible. The cap hit itself isn't bad...assuming Howard can hold down the #1 spot or at least hold up his end of a platoon arrangement. Otherwise, you're carrying an overpriced backup.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Dabura

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He was the Wings best goalie by a long way when he was healthy.  If he had played enough games, his GAA and save % would have lead or come close to leading the league.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

There goes our chances at a top defender...