Targets for the Wings

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

Maybe its just me but I believe the NHL 2017 offseason is going to bring the most trades due to the expansion draft, poor free agent group, and potentially pretty weak draft class. For this reason, its going to be a lot harder to forecast the market.

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Wouldn't surprise me if Tavares were moved at the 2018 trade deadline.

 

yeah? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Wouldn't surprise me if Tavares were moved at the 2018 trade deadline.

It would suprise me, although NYI is a budget team and Snow is an idiot, so maybe

[Wings3:16 318]

I read on thescore he will "likely" be offered 10m x 8y

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Tavares will be a UFA after the 2017/2018 season...I could be wrong, but the chances of him staying with the NYI is slim.

Why?

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[LeftWinger 4,951]

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2017/05/stephane-receiving-interest.html

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Pass. Detroit has plenty of forwards to fill the 3rd and 4th lines, and even the second line. They need an impact guy for the top line, or just go with their prospects.

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[LeftWinger 4,951]

I agree, but yet, people are wanting to draft non-impact players and sign ECHL equivalent players because they are from a certain region of another continent. So why not this guy? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

38 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree, but yet, people are wanting to draft non-impact players and sign ECHL equivalent players because they are from a certain region of another continent. So why not this guy? 

Who wants to "draft non-impact players and sign ECHL equivalent players" and what players are you talking about??? 

[Andy Pred 48 337]

well one thing, Blash should be getting a good look at players whilst at the worlds, and young Dylan is having a fine tourny so far.

[Buppy 1,720]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Who wants to "draft non-impact players and sign ECHL equivalent players" and what players are you talking about??? 

He's talking about Pettersson and Ejdsell (and probably any other Swede that's been discussed). 

Hilariously ironic, really. LW has an obvious anti-Swede (and anti-Euro in general) bias. Strong enough that he completely overlooked the existence of one of this year's top prospects (and still actually believes that prospect isn't any good) solely because he's Swedish. Now he's angry that he was mocked for his bigotry and ignorance, so he's trying to flip the script and act like everyone else is biased.

Either that or he really is oblivious to his own bigotry, and genuinely believes that it's the rest of the world that's biased.

Either way it's hilarious.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Nope.....Toronto has. THANK GOODNESS!

Edited May 16, 2017 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,951]

50 minutes ago, Buppy said:

He's talking about Pettersson and Ejdsell (and probably any other Swede that's been discussed). 

Hilariously ironic, really. LW has an obvious anti-Swede (and anti-Euro in general) bias. Strong enough that he completely overlooked the existence of one of this year's top prospects (and still actually believes that prospect isn't any good) solely because he's Swedish. Now he's angry that he was mocked for his bigotry and ignorance, so he's trying to flip the script and act like everyone else is biased.

Either that or he really is oblivious to his own bigotry, and genuinely believes that it's the rest of the world that's biased.

Either way it's hilarious.

Keep beating that drum...Just because I don't agree with your wants for the team.  Holland is going to draft and sign whomever he wants, if he doesn't grab my favorite, so be it. My only thing is, we've been the same type of team for YEARS and have gotten worse and worse and worse, so why take your first top 10 in forever and waste it on the same type of player? Then go out and sign the same type of undrafted kids out of inferior leagues and 2nd tier inferior leagues if you want to make your team better.  We cannot keep playing the same system and style of play and expect to win anytime soon.  The league has left us behind, and that is Holland's fault.  If he chooses to draft the same type of players this team is full of, then that's on him.  Thing is, I am glad you find my insights hilarious, it keeps you coming back and interested. 

BTW, I didn't mention any player I was talking about, so very nice of you to play into the narrative you are creating in your own little world.  I see you skipped the message where I listed some of my favorite players and some of my most hated players.  Lest we forget my biggest argument of all time of this forum, not signing Hossa, who, is quite possibly one of my most favorite players of all time.  He is right up there with Fedorov and Lidstrom.  But, I get it, that doesn't line up with your narrative, so that's cool.  Keep on truckin, buddy!

Edited May 16, 2017 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, Buppy said:

He's talking about Pettersson and Ejdsell (and probably any other Swede that's been discussed). 

Hilariously ironic, really. LW has an obvious anti-Swede (and anti-Euro in general) bias. Strong enough that he completely overlooked the existence of one of this year's top prospects (and still actually believes that prospect isn't any good) solely because he's Swedish. Now he's angry that he was mocked for his bigotry and ignorance, so he's trying to flip the script and act like everyone else is biased.

Either that or he really is oblivious to his own bigotry, and genuinely believes that it's the rest of the world that's biased.

Either way it's hilarious.

Thank you. For the love of all the Viking Gods, I've been trying to make this point for 2 years now. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Keep beating that drum...Just because I don't agree with your wants for the team.  Holland is going to draft and sign whomever he wants, if he doesn't grab my favorite, so be it. My only thing is, we've been the same type of team for YEARS and have gotten worse and worse and worse, so why take your first top 10 in forever and waste it on the same type of player? Then go out and sign the same type of undrafted kids out of inferior leagues and 2nd tier inferior leagues if you want to make your team better.  We cannot keep playing the same system and style of play and expect to win anytime soon.  The league has left us behind, and that is Holland's fault.  If he chooses to draft the same type of players this team is full of, then that's on him.  Thing is, I am glad you find my insights hilarious, it keeps you coming back and interested. 

BTW, I didn't mention any player I was talking about, so very nice of you to play into the narrative you are creating in your own little world.  I see you skipped the message where I listed some of my favorite players and some of my most hated players.  Lest we forget my biggest argument of all time of this forum, not signing Hossa, who, is quite possibly one of my most favorite players of all time.  He is right up there with Fedorov and Lidstrom.  But, I get it, that doesn't line up with your narrative, so that's cool.  Keep on truckin, buddy!

Today I learned weve drafted and signed the exact same type of player for "YEARS"

Care to explain what type of player that is? Thanks truckin buddy

[Buppy 1,720]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Keep beating that drum...Just because I don't agree with your wants for the team.  Holland is going to draft and sign whomever he wants, if he doesn't grab my favorite, so be it. My only thing is, we've been the same type of team for YEARS and have gotten worse and worse and worse, so why take your first top 10 in forever and waste it on the same type of player? Then go out and sign the same type of undrafted kids out of inferior leagues and 2nd tier inferior leagues if you want to make your team better.  We cannot keep playing the same system and style of play and expect to win anytime soon.  The league has left us behind, and that is Holland's fault.  If he chooses to draft the same type of players this team is full of, then that's on him.  Thing is, I am glad you find my insights hilarious, it keeps you coming back and interested. 

BTW, I didn't mention any player I was talking about, so very nice of you to play into the narrative you are creating in your own little world.  I see you skipped the message where I listed some of my favorite players and some of my most hated players.  Lest we forget my biggest argument of all time of this forum, not signing Hossa, who, is quite possibly one of my most favorite players of all time.  He is right up there with Fedorov and Lidstrom.  But, I get it, that doesn't line up with your narrative, so that's cool.  Keep on truckin, buddy!

If the sheet fits... And bigotry doesn't have to be absolute. Liking Lidstrom doesn't mean you're not a bigot for your prejudice against Swedes in general. Bigots aren't noted for their rationality.

Unbelievably, your attempt to prove that you aren't biased is so full of implied bigotry that it might as well be one of those hidden-3D-image pictures, where if you squint at it just right you see a bunch of swastikas with thumbs-up emojis.

First, "same type of player/team". which we know means "European-style", which we know means soft/weak/gutless/etc. but that you like to hide behind your new code-word, "finesse". Either way it is factually inaccurate. The diversity of nationalities, size, and play style may not be all that everyone wants, but it inarguably exists. It is a hallmark of bigotry to exaggerate the  influence of the object of that bigotry.

That same point is also evident in your blaming our decline on "finesse". While there isn't sufficient data to make factual assertions, that alone is an indictment of your opinion. That you include that statement in the very same sentence as "first top 10 in forever" shows such ridiculous and willful disregard of the both the success of our strategy, and the well-known cyclical nature of sports, that I defy anyone to read that sentence without imagining a rimshot at the end.

And in regards to the whole "finesse" thing, it seems to be widely accepted that the game has been trending toward speed and skill (finesse, one might say), and anecdotal evidence from discussions on hitting, fighting, the disappearance of enforcers, growing sentiment against stay-at-home-defensemen and defensive-specialist-forwards, and a strong movement toward analytics seems to support that conclusion. I'm not even sure you believe your finesse argument. Misusing our players has often been discussed here, and even you have done so; arguing that our grittier and less-skilled players are playing too much, at the expense of our finesse players. Your advocacy for Tippett (whose grittiness is hardly more than a footnote in his scouting report compared to his finesse attributes of skating and shooting) also suggest you are just using the term as a  facade.

Finally we have the sheer vehemence of your anti-"finesse" rhetoric suggesting an irrational bias. Here saying such a pick would be a waste, previously calling such a pick "non-impact", and the ultimate example of:

Quote

"...if Holland drafts that kid, I will go so apes*** that I'll probably get banned from here, which would suck, but then again, I'd never watch another Red Wings game again, so I'd have nothing to discuss anyhow. Every last piece of Red Wings parphanelia would hit the bonfire. That would be the last nail in the coffin of my life as a Wings fan."

...in regards to Pettersson, who you later admitted you had never even heard of. And even though you have since been made aware that every scouting service believes Pettersson has elite potential, you still refuse to believe it. It might have done your argument some good if you had acknowledged his potential, and just said you felt there were better options. Too late for that now though.

You can't get better if you don't recognize your faults. I'm doing this for your own good, pal.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Buppy

[LeftWinger 4,951]

We'll just have to be on different pages I guess. It's sad that you compare my wants for this team, which I admit is bias towards a certain type of player, to sheet wearing klansmen and racial bigotry. We're talking about a sport here, not someones human right to live. I don't disagree with you that I am bias towards the larger style of play, but you are on the extreme side if it, way extreme. My argument is, especially with your words "if the sheet fits" that you are comparing me not wanting Pettersson to be our pick to a man being dragged behind a pickup truck by his neck until his head comes off because of the color of his skin. Bias I may be towards a certain style of player I feel this team needs, but a pure hateful racist bigot I am not. I am thourhoughy offended right now. Kindly hit the ignore button from now on when it comes to me because you have really crossed a line. I think it's time for a break.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Honestly, I am a big fan of Tatar, Frk, and Pulkkenen. I was one of the guys that was angry when we lost the latter 2 to waivers. I even gave Nyquist his credit due for having a nice rebound to end the season. I'm a huge fan of Hedman and Lidstrom was one of my favorites. I'm a huge Mrazek slappie, been one for years. Hossa and Fedorov are two of my most favorite players ever. I have players from both sides of the pond that I thourhoughy dislike. Helm, Howard, Hudler, Franzen to name some. 

Disliking a sports figure is nothing compared to the ramped hatred going on in the world today when it comes to race. Saying "if the sheet fits" is a direct reference to me being part of a hate group responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of people because of the color of their skin. So Buppy is therefore saying if we draft a Swede, Id want to kill him. Call me bias all you want when it comes to the type of player I prefer, but saying what he said is way out of line and totally uncalled for.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

47 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Honestly, I am a big fan of Tatar, Frk, and Pulkkenen. I was one of the guys that was angry when we lost the latter 2 to waivers. I even gave Nyquist his credit due for having a nice rebound to end the season. I'm a huge fan of Hedman and Lidstrom was one of my favorites. I'm a huge Mrazek slappie, been one for years. Hossa and Fedorov are two of my most favorite players ever. I have players from both sides of the pond that I thourhoughy dislike. Helm, Howard, Hudler, Franzen to name some. 

Disliking a sports figure is nothing compared to the ramped hatred going on in the world today when it comes to race. Saying "if the sheet fits" is a direct reference to me being part of a hate group responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of people because of the color of their skin. So Buppy is therefore saying if we draft a Swede, Id want to kill him. Call me bias all you want when it comes to the type of player I prefer, but saying what he said is way out of line and totally uncalled for.

Yeah, yeah, you're the victim in all of this I'm sure.

I'm with you in hoping that these discussions don't have to be had again, but I'm not holding my breath at this point. Although a boy can dream!

[Buppy 1,720]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Honestly, I am a big fan of Tatar, Frk, and Pulkkenen. I was one of the guys that was angry when we lost the latter 2 to waivers. I even gave Nyquist his credit due for having a nice rebound to end the season. I'm a huge fan of Hedman and Lidstrom was one of my favorites. I'm a huge Mrazek slappie, been one for years. Hossa and Fedorov are two of my most favorite players ever. I have players from both sides of the pond that I thourhoughy dislike. Helm, Howard, Hudler, Franzen to name some. 

Disliking a sports figure is nothing compared to the ramped hatred going on in the world today when it comes to race. Saying "if the sheet fits" is a direct reference to me being part of a hate group responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of people because of the color of their skin. So Buppy is therefore saying if we draft a Swede, Id want to kill him. Call me bias all you want when it comes to the type of player I prefer, but saying what he said is way out of line and totally uncalled for.

So you're more offended by the Klan association than the Nazi one? Even your indignation is biased against Euros.

If you think bigotry is limited to maniacal hatred and violence, you are worse than I thought. Prejudice, even without any ill intent, still counts. 

I'm not sure if you're just trying to garner sympathy, or if you genuinely don't get it. I'm not talking about play style or player type (unless you really believe European/Swedish is a type/style). it is about you forming opinions about players based on their nationality, even in cases where you admit you have never even heard of the player. 

I don't have a problem with you wanting Tippett over Pettersson. I would too as a matter of fact. I have a problem with your anti-Euro bias and your attempt to hide it behind this bulls*** "finesse" facade.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

If we lose a forward to Vegas, I say we go after Ryan White.  We also could round out the bottom 6 with Bran Boyle on a year or two contract. It's been reorted we aren't re-signing Miller, so that would leave 4 spots open up front.  Let's say we lose Helm or Abby and Miller leaves:

Nyquist - Z - Tatar

AA - Larkin - Mantha

????? - Nielsen - ?????

Sheahan - Glenny - Abby

????? - ?????

White and Boyle would be solid bottom 6 players. (no those aren't the lines, I just threw names in there.) If we don't draft a forward that makes the team out of camp that would leave two spots for Svech, Bertuzzi and Nosek to battle for.  I'd say just upgrade the kids, but not sure if we want to go full blown kids.

Maybe this:

Tatar - Z - Mantha

AA - Nielsen - Larkin

Abby - White - Nyquist

Sheahan - Glenny - Boyle

Bertuzzi/Nosek

 

Maybe just go with White and give Svech a full time gig. It all depends on what kind of cap we can get rid of.  I've said it before, we need to lose about $4M to vegas, then trade away about $8M more in order to put this team going in the right direction.

Maybe lose Helm to Vegas, trade Howard to Calgary and maybe Sheahan somewhere. That would be just over $11M freed up. I'd prefer trading another $4M+ instead of Sheahan, but outside of Abby, that's be cutting into our scoring. Unless we could ditch Ericsson somehow. That'd put me over my target of $12M freed up to re-sign AA, XO and Tatar then sign a UFA or 2 or just one and upgrade our kids.

I'd also like to try to get Jared Tinoridi into the organization as long as his substance abuse issues are taken care of. There's always re-signing McIllrath as well.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

22 hours ago, Buppy said:

So you're more offended by the Klan association than the Nazi one? Even your indignation is biased against Euros.

If you think bigotry is limited to maniacal hatred and violence, you are worse than I thought. Prejudice, even without any ill intent, still counts. 

I'm not sure if you're just trying to garner sympathy, or if you genuinely don't get it. I'm not talking about play style or player type (unless you really believe European/Swedish is a type/style). it is about you forming opinions about players based on their nationality, even in cases where you admit you have never even heard of the player. 

I don't have a problem with you wanting Tippett over Pettersson. I would too as a matter of fact. I have a problem with your anti-Euro bias and your attempt to hide it behind this bulls*** "finesse" facade.

Yes, but if you were just categorizing me into the prejudice side, it'd be like you telling me that instead of calling them Jewish friends, just call them friends.  But you said "if the sheet fits" and that is YOU, not me, putting me into the maniacal hatred and violence category. You associated me with the Klan and Nazi's, that is where I got offended.  If you had kept it at prejudice as in labeling a player Euro or NA, that would've been more of how I act from time to time.  I can agree with you that I prefer a more NA style of player, and of that makes me a bit prejudice, so be it, guilty, but in no way, shape or form does my preference of player categorize me with the Southern Democrats of the world that created the KKK and Margaret Sanger who wanted to eradicate certain citizens based on their race and skin color.

 

Now, when it comes to Pettersson, I'll admit I didn't do too much research on him because I do not wish to draft him with our first top 10 in decades.  But I also admit that I'd be ok with Suzuki, who, outside of having a bit of sandpaper to him, is also a smaller skilled forward.  So that is where I agree with you, I am more bias towards NA players than European. But that also doesn't change the fact that my list of favorite players include a lot of European players and my list of non favorite players include NA players.  If drafting Pettersson and singing the small SHL kid (name escapes me) meant that we were trading Howard, Helm, Ericsson and Nyquist, I'd be all for it.  I just don't like those players.

In the end, I hope to draft Tippett, and in order after that (if he's not there)  Suzuki, Hague, Liljegren.  I'm not high on Pettersson, but if that's who we get, I can only hope he turns out to be great and he grows on me.  I can remember back a few years ago I was touting Tatar and Nyquist and the new Euro-Twins, so I did have an excitement for Nyquist.  I'm hoping whoever we get, turns out to be a top 3 forward or a top 2 D.

Just lay off the KKK and Nazi extreme stuff and I will do my best to stop the prejudice towards the more Euro-style FINESSE players.  I am fine with the bias label, I cannot deny that, but not the hate group label.

[Buppy 1,720]

55 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

... I am fine with the bias label, I cannot deny that, but not the hate group label.

I can respect that, and even tolerate the bias, as long as you're honest about it.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Yes, but if you were just categorizing me into the prejudice side, it'd be like you telling me that instead of calling them Jewish friends, just call them friends.  But you said "if the sheet fits" and that is YOU, not me, putting me into the maniacal hatred and violence category. You associated me with the Klan and Nazi's, that is where I got offended.  If you had kept it at prejudice as in labeling a player Euro or NA, that would've been more of how I act from time to time.  I can agree with you that I prefer a more NA style of player, and of that makes me a bit prejudice, so be it, guilty, but in no way, shape or form does my preference of player categorize me with the Southern Democrats of the world that created the KKK and Margaret Sanger who wanted to eradicate certain citizens based on their race and skin color.

 

Now, when it comes to Pettersson, I'll admit I didn't do too much research on him because I do not wish to draft him with our first top 10 in decades.  But I also admit that I'd be ok with Suzuki, who, outside of having a bit of sandpaper to him, is also a smaller skilled forward.  So that is where I agree with you, I am more bias towards NA players than European. But that also doesn't change the fact that my list of favorite players include a lot of European players and my list of non favorite players include NA players.  If drafting Pettersson and singing the small SHL kid (name escapes me) meant that we were trading Howard, Helm, Ericsson and Nyquist, I'd be all for it.  I just don't like those players.

In the end, I hope to draft Tippett, and in order after that (if he's not there)  Suzuki, Hague, Liljegren.  I'm not high on Pettersson, but if that's who we get, I can only hope he turns out to be great and he grows on me.  I can remember back a few years ago I was touting Tatar and Nyquist and the new Euro-Twins, so I did have an excitement for Nyquist.  I'm hoping whoever we get, turns out to be a top 3 forward or a top 2 D.

Just lay off the KKK and Nazi extreme stuff and I will do my best to stop the prejudice towards the more Euro-style FINESSE players.  I am fine with the bias label, I cannot deny that, but not the hate group label.

How can you know you don't want to draft Pettersson if you've done no research on him...? You just hate Swedes that much that you turn a blind eye? And you like Suzuki, even though you admit he's generally the same type of player as Petterson?

I'm not sure if you're hateful, or just stupid. 

 

 

[Bannedforlife 403]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

"...if Holland drafts that kid, I will go so apes*** that I'll probably get banned from here, which would suck, but then again, I'd never watch another Red Wings game again, so I'd have nothing to discuss anyhow. Every last piece of Red Wings parphanelia would hit the bonfire. That would be the last nail in the coffin of my life as a Wings fan."

Haha, busted!