• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Andy Pred 48

Targets for the Wings

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I suppose they could just go with 13 forwards and 8 D, but as long as it's 1 year deals so we can flip them at the deadline for picks. It's just a cap issue unless there's a cap dump coming, but I doubt it.

I say that because with AA and Tatar,We'll have 11 forwards signed. They could bring up a kid that needs to clear waivers and maybe another, or sign Vanek. Then with the 7 D they have now, they could sign an 8th and still be at 23.

Edited by LeftWinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So you think we should sign a past-his-prime "band-aid" veteran defenseman so we can waive and lose a kid like Sproul or Ouellet?

Yes.  We've been pulling up these young defensemen for years and none of them have really worked out for us.  I don't know if we're pulling them up too early or if they don't fit our system or if they're simply just not good enough.  Suffering through these growing pains for defensemen that may not end up working out anyways is especially bad considering how many good young talented forwards we have.  They're good but it doesn't matter because the defense isn't, our goaltenders get shelled and we're a below average hockey team.  Veteran defensemen are a good way to bridge the gap until we can develop better defensemen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I suppose they could just go with 13 forwards and 8 D, but as long as it's 1 year deals so we can flip them at the deadline for picks. It's just a cap issue unless there's a cap dump coming, but I doubt it.

This is an option, but not a good one in my opinion. Unless we're moving Ericsson, or Kronwall ends up on LTIR, we don't need any more vets back there. Give the kids a legit shot, and build for the future. I don't want Sproul sitting every game or be waived and lost for nothing because we sign a vet for one season...

Players that need to be on the roster and / or are waiver eligible...

Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Athanasiou, Mantha, Larkin, Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Glendening, Frk (12)

Kronwall, Ericsson, Green, DeKeyser, Jensen, Ouellet, Sproul (7)

We have two spots available. Either sign one of the young reclamation projects (Yakupov or Grigorenko) and / or let one or two of Svechnikov, Bertuzzi, Hicketts, Russo fight for a spot. Don't Sign Any 26+ UFA's!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, xtrememachine1 said:

Yes.  We've been pulling up these young defensemen for years and none of them have really worked out for us.  I don't know if we're pulling them up too early or if they don't fit our system or if they're simply just not good enough.  Suffering through these growing pains for defensemen that may not end up working out anyways is especially bad considering how many good young talented forwards we have.  They're good but it doesn't matter because the defense isn't, our goaltenders get shelled and we're a below average hockey team.  Veteran defensemen are a good way to bridge the gap until we can develop better defensemen.

I completely disagree. We're an average to below average hockey team, no matter if we're dressing Sproul or any one of the vets. Why spend the money and roster spot on these guys when we have players within the system that are a decade younger, just as talented but actually have upside? That is awful asset management, especially for a team that should be rebuilding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree, but we're talking Holland here. Plus Blashill and his stupid line combos. Holland loves the vets and Blashill will probably rotate sitting Sproul and XO before he sits E anyhow.

That's my fear with Holland managing this team going forward. The league is getting younger, and Holland hasn't been able to adapt.

The days of prospects playing in the minors until they're 23-24 should be long over. Most of these kids (higher end prospects) are ready by the age of 20-21.

I do think teams need veteran leadership to succeed, especially in the playoffs, but this is not a playoff team with or without those guys. Besides, we have Zetterberg, Kronwall, Nielsen and Abdelkader to lead by example. Which is more than enough in my opinion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

I completely disagree. We're an average to below average hockey team, no matter if we're dressing Sproul or any one of the vets. Why spend the money and roster spot on these guys when we have players within the system that are a decade younger, just as talented but actually have upside? That is awful asset management, especially for a team that should be rebuilding.

Well then we can agree to disagree on that. lol  I think vets like Daley or Girardi would be an upgrade over guys like Sproul or XO.  They are not just as talented.  Sure Sproul and XO may end up being solid NHL defensemen someday and might be better someday, but while they're learning to play the position at the NHL level, our young forwards are going to waste.  The way I see it, our forwards are in a good spot right now.  They show promise, flashes of being really good.  Unfortunately, our defensemen do not.  I don't see why the team, as a whole, has to suffer.  A lot of people want a full blown rebuild, but I don't think that's necessary right now.  Veteran defensemen would give us more consistency/reliability from a position that needs those qualities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree, but we're talking Holland here. Plus Blashill and his stupid line combos. Holland loves the vets and Blashill will probably rotate sitting Sproul and XO before he sits E anyhow.

Holland likes to know what he's getting into.  When he signs a player like Vanek, he knows what type of player he's getting.  When you draft guys out of juniors, regardless of how well they play there, you don't really know what they're going to do until they get into the NHL.  Considering his track record with drafting defensemen over the past 10 years, I can see why he would feel this way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High end prospects don't need to play in the AHL but we don't have any of those. Seeing Svechnikov up with the big club already should show you the team is willing to change its philosophy

People need to lower their expectations during the first real year of a rebuild. You expect high end talent when we are drafting in the top 10 for the very first year. Rebuilds aren't seamless transitions it's an ugly process. Once our young D prospects start to develop and we shed some bad contracts fans outlook will be a lot different... I for one appreciate trying to stay competitive and taking the moral high ground whenever possible but I can see how some don't

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rebuild on hold? Red Wings reportedly eye Girardi, Hainsey, Daley
http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/06/27/rebuild-on-hold-red-wings-reportedly-eye-girardi-hainsey-daley/
I mentioned this in another post, I'm okay with us picking up "band aid" veteran defensemen until the younger defensemen are ready for the NHL.  I'm just unsure as to how Holland expects to sign these guys.  Defensemen, regardless of quality, get paid pretty well these days and we don't exactly have a ton of cap space.


Brace yourself guys told ya the real rebuild will start next year. Just hope none of the Veteran contracts is longer than a year. Chris should veto every contract that's longer than that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

High end prospects don't need to play in the AHL but we don't have any of those. Seeing Svechnikov up with the big club already should show you the team is willing to change its philosophy

People need to lower their expectations during the first real year of a rebuild. You expect high end talent when we are drafting in the top 10 for the very first year. Rebuilds aren't seamless transitions it's an ugly process. Once our young D prospects start to develop and we shed some bad contracts fans outlook will be a lot different... I for one appreciate trying to stay competitive and taking the moral high ground whenever possible but I can see how some don't

I have no idea if any of this is directed at me, but I said high end prospects, aka 1st / 2nd round picks, not elite top 3 picks. So yes, high end prospects do still need some time developing in the minors, just not as long as we've been used to in the past...

Also, I didn't say anything about a quick rebuild or any expectations on said rebuild, other than, ya know, actually rebuilding by playing the kids, and not signing past their prime vets...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way I'm okay with signing a veteran defenseman, is if we first trade Ericsson (retain $2M) for a mid round draft pick, and sign one of the vets for somewhere around $2M for one season for the purpose of trading at the deadline. But A.) why would any of these guys take a pay cut to sign with a non playoff team? and B.) why would the team we traded Ericsson to, not just sign one of these vets instead? So in other words, this scenario would not happen, and in my opinion it would be a mistake to sign any of the rumored vets... Let the kids play and develop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dan Giardi would sign for around 3.5M for 1 or 2 years how would that hurt the future of the team. Once Green left he'd be our #1 defensemen. That's pretty sad but playing all our young bottom six defenders all year and watching them crash and burn isn't good for anyone. I feel our young players will develop better on a team with structure. Everyone looks bad when you roll out a defense like that and then it has a dominos effect where all our assets have become worthless in a matter of one year. I blame the defense... maybe coaching. But I've yet to see a defense roster as bad as the red wings last year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

If Dan Giardi would sign for around 3.5M for 1 or 2 years how would that hurt the future of the team. Once Green left he'd be our #1 defensemen. That's pretty sad but playing all our young bottom six defenders all year and watching them crash and burn isn't good for anyone. I feel our young players will develop better on a team with structure. Everyone looks bad when you roll out a defense like that and then it has a dominos effect where all our assets have become worthless in a matter of one year. I blame the defense... maybe coaching. But I've yet to see a defense roster as bad as the red wings last year

This team won't have any structure even with more vets. The systems are broken. Terrible coaching all around and s*** systems in both ends of the ice equals clusterf***. Which is what we see most night from this team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That's my fear with Holland managing this team going forward. The league is getting younger, and Holland hasn't been able to adapt.

The days of prospects playing in the minors until they're 23-24 should be long over. Most of these kids (higher end prospects) are ready by the age of 20-21.

I do think teams need veteran leadership to succeed, especially in the playoffs, but this is not a playoff team with or without those guys. Besides, we have Zetterberg, Kronwall, Nielsen and Abdelkader to lead by example. Which is more than enough in my opinion...

Dude what? Holland has literally brought in Larkin, Mantha, Svech all within a 1 year time period. Two of those guys he brought in for a top 6 role. He's adapting just fine. It's not a black and white argument. He's doing exactly what your post says. "Higher end prospects" HAVE been brought up by 20-21. All of our higher end prospects have. All as in the only 3-4 that we have. Even AA was brought in at 21.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

If Dan Giardi would sign for around 3.5M for 1 or 2 years how would that hurt the future of the team. Once Green left he'd be our #1 defensemen. That's pretty sad but playing all our young bottom six defenders all year and watching them crash and burn isn't good for anyone. I feel our young players will develop better on a team with structure. Everyone looks bad when you roll out a defense like that and then it has a dominos effect where all our assets have become worthless in a matter of one year. I blame the defense... maybe coaching. But I've yet to see a defense roster as bad as the red wings last year

Sure, if we somehow signed Dan Girardi from 5 years ago. Girardi sucks. At this point in his career he's a decent shot blocker and that's it. If that's all a player is bringing to the table, no thanks. Rangers fans wanted him gone for the past two years, he was just bought out (for good reason) and Rangers fan couldn't have been happier. And he's going to come in and be our best defenseman? Not likely. He's a glorified Jonathan Ericsson in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Dude what? Holland has literally brought in Larkin, Mantha, Svech all within a 1 year time period. Two of those guys he brought in for a top 6 role. He's adapting just fine. It's not a black and white argument. He's doing exactly what your post says. "Higher end prospects" HAVE been brought up by 20-21. All of our higher end prospects have. All as in the only 3-4 that we have. Even AA was brought in at 21.

I agree to a certain extent. Maybe I shouldn't have said that Holland hasn't been able to adapt. He has been doing a better job lately of bringing the kids (ones you mention) up, but let's not forget that it took injuries for both Mantha and Athanasiou to make the team. And I guess that's fine too because injuries are inevitable. I guess it's just frustrating seeing that he's in the market for another veteran defenseman, when that's the last thing this team needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, unless he re-signs, I'd rather save cap and go after Fowler next year. Unless he signs players to 1 year and flips them for picks again. I can see Green getting us at least a 2nd at the deadline. Players like Daley or Girardi could tech the same. It'd be nice to have a couple of 1sts and 2nds next draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Honestly, unless he re-signs, I'd rather save cap and go after Fowler next year. Unless he signs players to 1 year and flips them for picks again. I can see Green getting us at least a 2nd at the deadline. Players like Daley or Girardi could tech the same. It'd be nice to have a couple of 1sts and 2nds next draft.

Fowler will not hit free agency. If we want a player of Fowler's caliber, it will need to be through the draft or trade. We have drafted some good looking players that we hope will develop into top pair defensemen, but we should also be exploring the trade market. Maybe Holland is exploring every avenue, but unfortunately, I doubt it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

I wouldn't be mad at this on opening night 

Dekeseyer-Green

Ouellette-Campbell

Kronwall-Jensen

Ericsson

Do you think there's even a remote possibility that Ericsson is the healthy scratch? I don't. But I would still prefer a 24 year old Sproul in that spot over a 38 year old Campbell. How does scratching a 24 year old with potential (even if that potential is a 3rd pairing, power-play specialist) and bringing in a 38 year old that's on his last leg help a rebuilding team?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Holland going Holland.

And Svechnikov isn't guaranteed a spot, I don't know why anyone is saying he's made the roster for next year.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Not the point, he was still called up at age 20 and first year as pro. And Mantha, Larkin, AA are all on roster. So what exactly was the point of your post? 

If Svech doesn't make it opening night, he's not good enough to beat out the top 9 period. Regardless of what you think from behind your taptalk phone virtual keyboard at work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now