Red Wings drop 2 spots, will pick 9th in NHL Draft

[frankgrimes 1,836]

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Stop trying to make "Holland pick" a thing. And he also says we need stars and we need a top defenseman. Despite your prejudices, we don't need Tippett any more than anything else. Less than most in fact. 

Personally, I think moving back a little would be a good move. Not sure if there would be anyone Carolina would want to move up for, but they have a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders. If we could do that, get Suzuki or Valimaki, then have a bunch of picks in the 2nd & 3rd, or use some to move back up. 

How about speakin for yourself? FAct  is the Wings haven't drafted for size since Mantha and they even moved back to draft a guy who would have beenö available in the second round last year.

If the Wings are going to draft fPetterson it's a clear indication that they don't know twhat this team needsa!

btw. you've said the Wings have prospects that aren't worse than those of the other teams?`Ok so where is Jack Eichel, Zack Werenski, AAron Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Nolan Patrick, John Tavares ? No names well that's because the Wings at best  have secondary players and no one even close to being a number 1 defenseman or number 1 center it's ******* ridiculous that even after such a bad season some rose colored fans still don't see this.

The best thing would be to trade every veteran just not Z and build this thing up from the groudn

 

[kipwinger 8,522]

6 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

How about speakin for yourself? FAct  is the Wings haven't drafted for size since Mantha and they even moved back to draft a guy who would have beenö available in the second round last year.

If the Wings are going to draft fPetterson it's a clear indication that they don't know twhat this team needsa!

btw. you've said the Wings have prospects that aren't worse than those of the other teams?`Ok so where is Jack Eichel, Zack Werenski, AAron Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Nolan Patrick, John Tavares ? No names well that's because the Wings at best  have secondary players and no one even close to being a number 1 defenseman or number 1 center it's ******* ridiculous that even after such a bad season some rose colored fans still don't see this.

The best thing would be to trade every veteran just not Z and build this thing up from the groudn

 

@Buppy, good luck sorting this out lol. 

[joesuffP 1,746]

Missed the playoffs once in 26 years and you expect the wings to have already drafted their franchise player. Rebuilding is going to take some patience. Wings may not get a corner stone player in this draft but we'll have decent picks for the next few years. Nothing wrong with developing good NHL players in the meantime. Firing everybody after one year of rebuilding is ridiculous. Sound like spoiled unreaslistic (delusional) fans

[kliq 3,755]

15 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

How about speakin for yourself? FAct  is the Wings haven't drafted for size since Mantha and they even moved back to draft a guy who would have beenö available in the second round last year.

If the Wings are going to draft fPetterson it's a clear indication that they don't know twhat this team needsa!

btw. you've said the Wings have prospects that aren't worse than those of the other teams?`Ok so where is Jack Eichel, Zack Werenski, AAron Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Nolan Patrick, John Tavares ? No names well that's because the Wings at best  have secondary players and no one even close to being a number 1 defenseman or number 1 center it's ******* ridiculous that even after such a bad season some rose colored fans still don't see this.

The best thing would be to trade every veteran just not Z and build this thing up from the groudn

 

Are you saying that Tavares is a prospect for the Islanders? You just seem to be naming random star players. A prospect is a guy who hasnt played an NHL game get, or if he has, has only played for a short period of time.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

If Tippett is there along with Pettersson, Tippett would be the choice for what this team needs. Pettersson would be the status quo of Ken Holland. Sure he's drafted a lot of kids 6' to 6'3", but most of the ones that have made any showing in Detroit have been finesse players. Mantha is maybe the exception when it comes to that. But really even Mantha isn't as physical or as much as a power forward as Tippett. I really hope Holland gets Tippett. I want to believe that Holland wants to bring this team to the next step to compete with the bigger teams in the NHL. Not just draft a player just because he's a familiar type pick.

[chaps80 1,591]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

Funny thing to say in a year when two teams who had worse odds (one significantly worse) than we did moved up. 

Lol, trade all the vets except the one who makes the biggest difference. 

There are two problems with "blowing it all up". One, losing doesn't automatically give you a great player. Even winning the first pick doesn't. And two, blowing it up means you have to do that much more to rebuild. Go that route you better plan on being bad for a long time, and there probably won't be any payoff either. 

Without missing the playoffs, we have added a number of young guys who are as good or close to the vast majority of those picked by lottery teams. and now we have a top 10 pick to work with. 

It takes a lot of luck to go from loser to contender. Trying to stay competitive, while drafting well and transitioning to the kids, is just as valid a rebuild strategy.

Obviously not all the vets would be moved. Just put it out there that they are available, and listen to any and all offers. Basically, no one off limits besides Z. Any of the others are replaceable and some grossly overpaid. i can't really name one vet besides Z that isn't. DeKeyser? Nope. Howard? Nope. Nyquist? Nope. Helm? Lol

OK, I'd probably keep Tatar too. The Wings are not a team that with some good drafted players would be great again. The veteran core is pretty half ass at this point. Gotta ditch some of those contracts Holland gave out to guys that don't and are incapable of earning.

 

[kliq 3,755]

26 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Obviously not all the vets would be moved. Just put it out there that they are available, and listen to any and all offers. Basically, no one off limits besides Z. Any of the others are replaceable and some grossly overpaid. i can't really name one vet besides Z that isn't. DeKeyser? Nope. Howard? Nope. Nyquist? Nope. Helm? Lol

OK, I'd probably keep Tatar too. The Wings are not a team that with some good drafted players would be great again. The veteran core is pretty half ass at this point. Gotta ditch some of those contracts Holland gave out to guys that don't and are incapable of earning.

 

I wouldn't get rid of DD. Agreed in year 1 of his contract he wasn't that great, but for a team struggling to find defensemen the last thing I want to do is get rid of a legit top 4 guy who struggled because he was put in a top 2 role. Only way I move him is if its for a better D-man.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

7 hours ago, joesuffP said:

You guys need to buckle down and be prepared for some ugliness during this rebuild. It's not gonna look like the team is making any progress for 2-3 years at least if we're lucky. Expecting a franchise guy like Eichel and Matthews after missing the playoffs once is ridiculous. I'm not expecting anything until the Wings next wave of dmen are stepping into the NHL. If they're all looking like busts than ya I'll start to panic

Maybe I'm niave but I don't see a full rebuild ahead and as much ugliness as you seem to think we'll have 

 

granted we need some serious help at d and should try and get some help if we can for now but also try and draft as many dmen this year as possible

 

think if Blashill's stops being a stupid idiot and gives mantha and athanasiou ice time we'll be ok , as well as Larkin rebounding ...also got svechnikov after next season, really think smith,bertuzzi,holmstrom can be really good playoff guys one day 

 

and I think once the d gets some help we'll see mrazek start coming back to form 

 

that being said  having a mcdavid and a future lidstrom it would definetly help 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Obviously not all the vets would be moved. Just put it out there that they are available, and listen to any and all offers. Basically, no one off limits besides Z. Any of the others are replaceable and some grossly overpaid. i can't really name one vet besides Z that isn't. DeKeyser? Nope. Howard? Nope. Nyquist? Nope. Helm? Lol

OK, I'd probably keep Tatar too. The Wings are not a team that with some good drafted players would be great again. The veteran core is pretty half ass at this point. Gotta ditch some of those contracts Holland gave out to guys that don't and are incapable of earning.

 

Nielsen's contract was a bad move at the time and I'd try and move him now but I know we won't , Ericsson as well, howard 

 

agree with kliq , I wouldn't get rid of dekeyser , he's proven he can be good, everyone is just so out of place ... The defense is by far the top priority

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I wouldn't get rid of DD. Agreed in year 1 of his contract he wasn't that great, but for a team struggling to find defensemen the last thing I want to do is get rid of a legit top 4 guy who struggled because he was put in a top 2 role. Only way I move him is if its for a better D-man.

I get that. He is a guy that would be good to keep around if he wasn't forced to play roles above his abilities, making him burn out quicker, like what happened with Kronwall. He also makes too much for a second pair guy. But your right, he's one of the best we do have, which doesn't say much. But if it came down to losing him or Jensen, I'd pick him.

The Wings D is so bad that Kronwall logs 20 min a night in ice time on dead knees while statistically being a defensive liability. Does that make any sense? A guy who should be on LTIR or officially retired with limited mobility issues and is a liability every time he steps out there logs a period's length of ice time a game? Mind blowingly stupid.

[chaps80 1,591]

22 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Maybe I'm niave but I don't see a full rebuild ahead and as much ugliness as you seem to think we'll have 

 

granted we need some serious help at d and should try and get some help if we can for now but also try and draft as many dmen this year as possible

 

think if Blashill's stops being a stupid idiot and gives mantha and athanasiou ice time we'll be ok , as well as Larkin rebounding ...also got svechnikov after next season, really think smith,bertuzzi,holmstrom can be really good playoff guys one day 

 

and I think once the d gets some help we'll see mrazek start coming back to form 

 

that being said  having a mcdavid and a future lidstrom it would definetly help 

I'm certain the Blashill Bingo Wheel of Doom will be in full force again. The guy can't put correct lines together, and when he spins the wheel and actually lands on a good combo that gels and produces, he just ends up splitting them up soon after anyways.

13 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Nielsen's contract was a bad move at the time and I'd try and move him now but I know we won't , Ericsson as well, howard 

 

agree with kliq , I wouldn't get rid of dekeyser , he's proven he can be good, everyone is just so out of place ... The defense is by far the top priority

Nielson was a bad move. He's not a difference maker although he's paid like one and has a damn NMC. He compliments difference makers like Tavares. Wrong signing at the wrong time. Even though I think he'd waive that NMC in a second to get out of a situation he wasn't expecting (missing the playoffs and being on a rebuilding team), no one will take that contract, except maybe in his final year as a deadline deal to a top contender. 

But, if he ever somehow tries and succeeds to get Tavares to come to Detroit as a UFA next July, he'd be worth it. Lol

[Buppy 1,720]

4 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

How about speakin for yourself? FAct  is the Wings haven't drafted for size since Mantha and they even moved back to draft a guy who would have beenö available in the second round last year.

If the Wings are going to draft fPetterson it's a clear indication that they don't know twhat this team needsa!

btw. you've said the Wings have prospects that aren't worse than those of the other teams?`Ok so where is Jack Eichel, Zack Werenski, AAron Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Nolan Patrick, John Tavares ? No names well that's because the Wings at best  have secondary players and no one even close to being a number 1 defenseman or number 1 center it's ******* ridiculous that even after such a bad season some rose colored fans still don't see this.

The best thing would be to trade every veteran just not Z and build this thing up from the groudn

I think I have a pretty good idea of twhat this team needsa. Hence why I say we need things, like a #1 D and a #1 center, as much or more than "size". And I like Tippett by the way, as I've said before. He has a very high level of skill, which is much more important than his size (he's not even that big). He just wouldn't be my first choice. Pettersson wouldn't be either, I'm just not so myopic and bigoted that I'll dismiss a player because he's from a country I don't like.

And I know you're not the biggest fan of math, but I don't really have to explain what majority means, do I? In the last 5 drafts, there have been 70 players selected by lottery teams. The vast majority of them are not significantly better/more promising than Larkin, Mantha, or AA, or some of our prospects. Sure, there are some stars or budding stars (mostly picked 1st overall)...just not that many.

Buffalo has been s*** for a decade, finished worse than us this year even. Columbus has been pretty much s*** for their existence prior to this year. Same for Florida. Toronto s*** since the lockout year. Islanders have been irrelevant since Bossy, including the last 8 years since drafting Tavares. NJ is actually doing well, only missing the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years before getting a 1st overall. 

Tanking has never been the panacea some think it is, and it's now harder than ever to get the first overall pick. Deliberately making your team worse, and giving yourself that much more work to do, and possibly creating a losing culture...all for a very uncertain chance at a star, and even if you do get one (or more), very uncertain success. No thanks. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I think I have a pretty good idea of twhat this team needsa. Hence why I say we need things, like a #1 D and a #1 center, as much or more than "size". And I like Tippett by the way, as I've said before. He has a very high level of skill, which is much more important than his size (he's not even that big). He just wouldn't be my first choice. Pettersson wouldn't be either, I'm just not so myopic and bigoted that I'll dismiss a player because he's from a country I don't like.
And I know you're not the biggest fan of math, but I don't really have to explain what majority means, do I? In the last 5 drafts, there have been 70 players selected by lottery teams. The vast majority of them are not significantly better/more promising than Larkin, Mantha, or AA, or some of our prospects. Sure, there are some stars or budding stars (mostly picked 1st overall)...just not that many.
Buffalo has been s*** for a decade, finished worse than us this year even. Columbus has been pretty much s*** for their existence prior to this year. Same for Florida. Toronto s*** since the lockout year. Islanders have been irrelevant since Bossy, including the last 8 years since drafting Tavares. NJ is actually doing well, only missing the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years before getting a 1st overall. 
Tanking has never been the panacea some think it is, and it's now harder than ever to get the first overall pick. Deliberately making your team worse, and giving yourself that much more work to do, and possibly creating a losing culture...all for a very uncertain chance at a star, and even if you do get one (or more), very uncertain success. No thanks. 

The needs are obvious but how do you get them, if you don't have the pieces other teams are interesteds in IF they decide they have to trade one of those guys? By hoping to strike gold with the X sleeper pick, or signing veterans to rirdiculous contracts or not trading players because of whatever reason?

The Leafs were bad because their 2 previous GMs couldn't see and accept what this team really needed, in comes Shanahan and a management team that knew it was time to blow it up and build from scratch and here they are in year of a rebuild 2 challenging the caps in almost every game, if they can add a top pairing guy watch out. Guys are always talking about irrelevant other teams are guess what? The Wings shine has worn of this isn't the destination it used to be and if a team can't even sink or swim with the kids once they are mathematically out of the playoffs than what? The Wings have been irrelevant since 2012, they are close to the cap and have no young stars to watch but of course the next wave of AHL players is going to dominate at the next level....I remember to read something like that when Babs left it just never happened, hence why the NHL is a different beast than the AHL. Also Eichel, Laine went second not first overall. Also if the AHL guys are that good (as think to believe), why not play them over veterans , safe capspace for later and if it doesn't work out find other players? I'm also one of the few guys who said he would be happy if Larkin would turn out to be a solid top 6 center and I still think he can become a solid to even good second line center just not first line material, plus I'm not disappointed in how Goose and Tatar turned out because I've had realistic expectations for each of them.

Some rather hang on to status quo altough the team is just bad only exception is the team didn't do enough to increase their odds at a good pick. People can laugh at the Avs but they still have the 4th overall which could mean Vilardi might be available and then they can trade one of their big 3 for defensive help. Being bad in the right year is not rocket science, every team knew the drafts when McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine, Ekblad and Werenski were available (hint: ALL where available at a time when the Wings should have started to really rebuild), now being bad in a so called weak draft and falling a few spots is a tough situation and despite what some status quo guys think not the best way to open a new arena.

But it's useless to discuss this. You have your opinion I have mine but even all those crappy years some guys still don't see what this team really needs that's a bit surprising to me. I just hope Tippet by some miracle falls to the Wings he even plays the powerforward type of game more than Mantha

[kliq 3,755]

2 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

The needs are obvious but how do you get them, if you don't have the pieces other teams are interesteds in IF they decide they have to trade one of those guys? By hoping to strike gold with the X sleeper pick, or signing veterans to rirdiculous contracts or not trading players because of whatever reason?

The Leafs were bad because their 2 previous GMs couldn't see and accept what this team really needed, in comes Shanahan and a management team that knew it was time to blow it up and build from scratch and here they are in year of a rebuild 2 challenging the caps in almost every game, if they can add a top pairing guy watch out. Guys are always talking about irrelevant other teams are guess what? The Wings shine has worn of this isn't the destination it used to be and if a team can't even sink or swim with the kids once they are mathematically out of the playoffs than what? The Wings have been irrelevant since 2012, they are close to the cap and have no young stars to watch but of course the next wave of AHL players is going to dominate at the next level....I remember to read something like that when Babs left it just never happened, hence why the NHL is a different beast than the AHL. Also Eichel, Laine went second not first overall. Also if the AHL guys are that good (as think to believe), why not play them over veterans , safe capspace for later and if it doesn't work out find other players? I'm also one of the few guys who said he would be happy if Larkin would turn out to be a solid top 6 center and I still think he can become a solid to even good second line center just not first line material, plus I'm not disappointed in how Goose and Tatar turned out because I've had realistic expectations for each of them.

Some rather hang on to status quo altough the team is just bad only exception is the team didn't do enough to increase their odds at a good pick. People can laugh at the Avs but they still have the 4th overall which could mean Vilardi might be available and then they can trade one of their big 3 for defensive help. Being bad in the right year is not rocket science, every team knew the drafts when McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine, Ekblad and Werenski were available (hint: ALL where available at a time when the Wings should have started to really rebuild), now being bad in a so called weak draft and falling a few spots is a tough situation and despite what some status quo guys think not the best way to open a new arena.

But it's useless to discuss this. You have your opinion I have mine but even all those crappy years some guys still don't see what this team really needs that's a bit surprising to me. I just hope Tippet by some miracle falls to the Wings he even plays the powerforward type of game more than Mantha

You always say this, but please explain to me how the Leafs "blew it up". They traded 2 players, 1 awful contract, and a few players who were mostly 4th liners/expiring contracts but they kept the majority of their team in tact.

Most of their young guys were actually acquired when they were trying to be competitive but just sucked (you could argue similar to our past season). They got Matthews last year partially because they traded Pheuneuf and Kessel, but also because half their team was injured, and they won the lottery. They could just as easily have Pierre-Luc Dubois right now, but fortuntely for them luck was on their side (nothing against him, my point just being with him they would not be as good this year). If the Leafs did what you are implying they did, I don't believe they would be close to as good as they are right now because if they did guys like Kadri, JVR, Komarov, Reily, Gardinar and Bozak would be gone. Luckily the Leafs were smart enough to make calculated moves, get a little lucky and not tank like teams such as Colorado, Arizona, Buffalo, and Edmonton. Tanking usually does not work, the Leafs did not tank. What I want is the Wings to make calcualted moves like the Leafs.

But anyways, with that being said, if you can explain how they "Blew it Up" go for it.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

22 minutes ago, kliq said:

You always say this, but please explain to me how the Leafs "blew it up". They traded 2 players, 1 awful contract, and a few players who were mostly 4th liners/expiring contracts but they kept the majority of their team in tact.

Most of their young guys were actually acquired when they were trying to be competitive but just sucked (you could argue similar to our past season). They got Matthews last year partially because they traded Pheuneuf and Kessel, but also because half their team was injured, and they won the lottery. They could just as easily have Pierre-Luc Dubois right now, but fortuntely for them luck was on their side (nothing against him, my point just being with him they would not be as good this year). If the Leafs did what you are implying they did, I don't believe they would be close to as good as they are right now because if they did guys like Kadri, JVR, Komarov, Reily, Gardinar and Bozak would be gone. Luckily the Leafs were smart enough to make calculated moves, get a little lucky and not tank like teams such as Colorado, Arizona, Buffalo, and Edmonton. Tanking usually does not work, the Leafs did not tank. What I want is the Wings to make calcualted moves like the Leafs.

But anyways, with that being said, if you can explain how they "Blew it Up" go for it.

They traded their core led by Phaneuf and Kessel, fired their GM, coach, some scouts and what not. See here http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-shanahan-drops-the-axe-kick-starts-long-overdue-rebuild/article23892910/

And http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-fire-gm-nonis-interim-head-coach-horachek/article23890280/

They got Kadri 7 or 9th overall, JVR I think was for Schenn and a first and Bozak was a college signing but all 3 are complementary players their core is: Reilly (5 ov), Matthews (1 ov), Nylander (7 ov), Marner (4 ov), see? each one of them a top 10 pick and one of the two wingers has the potential to net them a huge defensive upgrade, which is hardly good for the rest of the eastern conference and then that Anderson trade and sign. Blowing it up is more than just changing players sometimes it also helps to add a neutral outside perspective - like hiring Shanahan or Nichelson in Edmonton - to get a fresh look at things and then decide how to go forward.

You always say Arizona did tank. Let me ask you this: no future place to play, shoestring budget, no money for free agents and no open check book to hire the best of the best scouts whats their other option? Maloney gave them some good pieces with Duclair, Domi, OEL but as long as their franchise isn't stable nothing will change. Colorado made the classic Edmonton mistake before Nichelson came in, go for forwards without thinking about the defense.

But this is about the current Wings and the current status is, that this team has no stars and lacks the pieces to trade for stars. That's usually the time when smart teams decide to start over or else you'll end up with a situation like Detroit or Vancouver. Is the 9th overall a bad pick? I don't think but it's also not going to be a star player something the Wings really really need. All I'm hoping for is that some team pulls a Columbus passes on Vilardi, Tippet and one of the 2 might fall to the Wings otherwise Liljegren or Foote

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

They traded their core led by Phaneuf and Kessel, fired their GM, coach, some scouts and what not. See here http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-shanahan-drops-the-axe-kick-starts-long-overdue-rebuild/article23892910/

And http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-fire-gm-nonis-interim-head-coach-horachek/article23890280/

They got Kadri 7 or 9th overall, JVR I think was for Schenn and a first and Bozak was a college signing but all 3 are complementary players their core is: Reilly (5 ov), Matthews (1 ov), Nylander (7 ov), Marner (4 ov), see? each one of them a top 10 pick and one of the two wingers has the potential to net them a huge defensive upgrade, which is hardly good for the rest of the eastern conference and then that Anderson trade and sign. Blowing it up is more than just changing players sometimes it also helps to add a neutral outside perspective - like hiring Shanahan or Nichelson in Edmonton - to get a fresh look at things and then decide how to go forward.

You always say Arizona did tank. Let me ask you this: no future place to play, shoestring budget, no money for free agents and no open check book to hire the best of the best scouts whats their other option? Maloney gave them some good pieces with Duclair, Domi, OEL but as long as their franchise isn't stable nothing will change. Colorado made the classic Edmonton mistake before Nichelson came in, go for forwards without thinking about the defense.

But this is about the current Wings and the current status is, that this team has no stars and lacks the pieces to trade for stars. That's usually the time when smart teams decide to start over or else you'll end up with a situation like Detroit or Vancouver. Is the 9th overall a bad pick? I don't think but it's also not going to be a star player something the Wings really really need. All I'm hoping for is that some team pulls a Columbus passes on Vilardi, Tippet and one of the 2 might fall to the Wings otherwise Liljegren or Foote

Your diverting, I didn't ask you how they acquired JVR, Bozak, Kadri, etc. what I asked you was how do you define what Shanahan and company did as "blowing things up"? They traded 2 players (what you define as their "core"), Clarkson (not a part of their core), and 4th liners/UFAs. They did not "blow things up". Going on about how they acquired players has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make. No need to post links lol, its nothing I haven't already read living in Windsor a million times.

Here is an exact list of who they traded last year and the year before, trust me I know the Leafs very well as I follow them much like I follow the Wings.  

Phil Kessel (core)

Dion Phaneuf (core)

Shawn Matthias (not a core players)

Roman Polak (not a core players, and brought him back anyways)

Nick Spaling (not a core players)

James Reimer (not a core players)

Daniel Winnik (not a mistake, they traded him twice) (not a core players)

Carter Ashton (not a core players)

Cody Franson (UFA)

Mike Santorelli (not a core players)

Daniel Winnik (not a core players)

David Clarkson (not a core players)

Olli Jokinen (not a core players)

Korbinian Holzer (not a core players)

Funny you talk about how they fired scouts etc. in an effort to make your point. Were you not the one who came on here ranting when they did that? Funny how hindsight is 20/20.

As far as your Arizona question. I never said that Arizona had other choices, again you are missing my point. I am not trying to be a jerk Frank, but please actually read what I am saying, you are going off in directions that I am not arguing. The point I am making is that they have had how many top picks, and they still are nothing special. A perfect example of how tanking and acquiring high picks doesn't automatically equal success.

I never said the Wings shouldn't trade some players, what I am saying is I dont want them to "blow it up", I want them to go the Toronto route and make a few changes, shed a few contracts and do it the right way. What does that mean for me? Here is what I would like to see them do:

- Trade one our young 3 for Trouba

- Get rid of Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby (though don't mind if we keep him) and Glendening 

- Trade Tatar or Nyquist for a top 4 d-man

- Make a play for Tavares if he becomes available. Having him-Larkin-AA down the middle would solidy us at the Center position for years.

- Trade Sheahan if the rumor of a first rounder is true, trade Green for a 1st as well

 

You see, by not blowing it up, we can still use two of (Larkin, Mantha, AA) as well as some of our vets.

I am also open to playing guys like Hicketts, Russo, Cholowski, and Sarijarvi if they are ready.

We go with:

Zetterberg - Tavares - 9th overall Pick

Nyquist - Larkin - UFA/Kid

Svechnikov - AA - UFA/Kid

G. Smith? - Helm - Nosek

 

Trouba - Top 4 D-man acquired for likely Tatar

DD - Jensen (or kids if they are better/ready instead of Jensen)

Sproul - XO (or kids if they are ready/better then either)

 

Mrazek

 

I fully realize the chances of all this happening are slim (especially Tavares), but if you are questioning what I want to do, I am laying it out for you. I would like to use Nyquist, Helm, and Z in a similar way Toronto is using JVR, Kadri, and Bozak. to compliment the kids. Blowing it up would mean trading all of these guys which I do not want to do.

Edited May 1, 2017 by kliq

[frankgrimes 1,836]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

Your diverting, I didn't ask you how they acquired JVR, Bozak, Kadri, etc. what I asked you was how do you define what Shanahan and company did as "blowing things up"? They traded 2 players (what you define as their "core"), Clarkson (not a part of their core), and 4th liners/UFAs. They did not "blow things up". Going on about how they acquired players has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make. No need to post links lol, its nothing I haven't already read living in Windsor a million times.

Here is an exact list of who they traded last year and the year before, trust me I know the Leafs very well as I follow them much like I follow the Wings.  

Phil Kessel (core)

Dion Phaneuf (core)

Shawn Matthias (not a core players)

Roman Polak (not a core players, and brought him back anyways)

Nick Spaling (not a core players)

James Reimer (not a core players)

Daniel Winnik (not a mistake, they traded him twice) (not a core players)

Carter Ashton (not a core players)

Cody Franson (UFA)

Mike Santorelli (not a core players)

Daniel Winnik (not a core players)

David Clarkson (not a core players)

Olli Jokinen (not a core players)

Korbinian Holzer (not a core players)

Funny you talk about how they fired scouts etc. in an effort to make your point. Were you not the one who came on here ranting when they did that? Funny how hindsight is 20/20.

As far as your Arizona question. I never said that Arizona had other choices, again you are missing my point. I am not trying to be a jerk Frank, but please actually read what I am saying, you are going off in directions that I am not arguing. The point I am making is that they have had how many top picks, and they still are nothing special. A perfect example of how tanking and acquiring high picks doesn't automatically equal success.

I never said the Wings shouldn't trade some players, what I am saying is I dont want them to "blow it up", I want them to go the Toronto route and make a few changes, shed a few contracts and do it the right way. What does that mean for me? Here is what I would like to see them do:

- Trade one our young 3 for Trouba

- Get rid of Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby (though don't mind if we keep him) and Glendening 

- Trade Tatar or Nyquist for a top 4 d-man

- Make a play for Tavares if he becomes available. Having him-Larkin-AA down the middle would solidy us at the Center position for years.

- Trade Sheahan if the rumor of a first rounder is true, trade Green for a 1st as well

 

You see, by not blowing it up, we can still use two of (Larkin, Mantha, AA) as well as some of our vets.

I am also open to playing guys like Hicketts, Russo, Cholowski, and Sarijarvi if they are ready.

We go with:

Zetterberg - Tavares - 9th overall Pick

Nyquist - Larkin - UFA/Kid

Svechnikov - AA - UFA/Kid

G. Smith? - Helm - Nosek

 

Trouba - Top 4 D-man acquired for likely Tatar

DD - Jensen (or kids if they are better/ready instead of Jensen)

Sproul - XO (or kids if they are ready/better then either)

 

Mrazek

 

I fully realize the chances of all this happening are slim (especially Tavares), but if you are questioning what I want to do, I am laying it out for you. I would like to use Nyquist, Helm, and Z in a similar way Toronto is using JVR, Kadri, and Bozak. to compliment the kids. Blowing it up would mean trading all of these guys which I do not want to do.

I don't think Tavares wants to go from one crappy situation to another if he decides to leave the Islanders. Trading for Trouba would be awesome but it would take Mantha or AA + and I would rather trade AA than Mantha but it's wash up and Trouba is easily worth it. In terms of DD I agree with you, he had 1 bad season way to early to give up on him. If Tavares becomes available this season there is a huge problem: 1.) crappy team and 2.) where is the cap space I think signing some guys to PTR, 1 year contracts and flipping them for picks should be considered, just don't bring Green or anyone else back. Keeping Z to mentor the kids is enough veteran presence you don't need a bunch of veterans to show the kids how it's done, Z and Kronner are more than enough.

9th pick well the question is, forward or defenseman so he could slot in either way after some time.

[Jacksoni 418]

Just chiming in to say that the 9th pick is clear dissapointment. With some luck we'll get that redhead kid. Doubt it though. With 7th or below we had good chances.

More pain and misery ahead.

[Dabura 12,207]

22 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Good god how hard is it to understand the simple concept of calling up the kids, let them learn and while doing so they'll make mistakes thus losing more games and in return increasing the odds at a better pick?

You do realize the 2016-17 Red Wings were really bad, yes?

• ROW: 24 (28th in the league)
• GF: 207 (24th)
• GA: 244 (25th)
• Goal Differential: -37 (25th)
• Corsi For Per 60 Minutes (5 on 5): 50.1 (29th)
• Corsi For% (5 on 5): 48.2 (24th)

That's the work of a bottom-five team. We want the team to be bad, yes? Well, Bad Team status: attained.

Also: We did call up and utilize kids. Not sure which season you were watching.

Also #2: Leaning more heavily on kids wouldn't necessarily weaken the team. It's not like Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Glendening, et al. don't make costly mistakes and don't have a hand in the losing. Maybe we ice a more kid-heavy team and finish 10th and pick 12th. Would that be something to celebrate?

Also #3: Player development is kind of a big deal. Playing for a bad NHL team and making costly mistakes isn't necessarily good for a prospect who's learning the pro North American game.

On 4/30/2017 at 6:37 AM, frankgrimes said:

If you disagree fine, where is the reward for this season?

This is exactly the kind of mentality that the league is trying to discourage. And good on them!

"Your organization iced a bad team? Well, don't expect to be 'rewarded' for it. And, no, the lesson you should take from this is not that you should've iced an even worse team. You're a professional sports franchise, not Gollum."

The Wings aren't in a hopeless place right now. We missed the playoffs for the first time in 25 years, we're picking in the top ten this year, and we have some good young players that aren't necessarily inferior to the average top-ten pick. (Mantha, Larkin, Hicketts, Hronek, Sambrook, Svechnikov, Saarijarvi, Athanasiou. And we might land Victor Ejdsell, who, from what I can tell, is very promising.) The team is getting younger. We're a bad team (but not actively trying to fail, i.e. we're trying to maintain a winning culture, which is indeed important) and we're probably going to be bad for at least the next three years, no matter what we do.

It's early days, but next year's draft class is looking incredibly deep. Rasmus Dahlin is phenomenal. Andrei Svechnikov might not even go in the top five. Players who might've challenged for the top spot in this year's draft class could be available in the 5-10 range.

Sucking sucks. But burning everything to the ground is a measure of last resort. It's the pinnacle of pathetic desperation and it guarantees you nothing. Indeed, the most likely outcome is many years of pain with no real "reward." The Sabres got Eichel and they're not a playoff team. The Islanders got Tavares and they're not a playoff team. The Hurricanes got Hanifin and they're not a playoff team. The Avalanche have Duchene and Mackinnon and Landeskog and Erik Johnson (drafted 1st overall by the Blues) and Rantanen and they finished the season with FORTY-EIGHT POINTS. The Coyotes suck every year. The Blue Jackets had their first really good regular season in franchise history...and were blown out in the first round.

You can blow it up. Just don't be surprised if it blows up in your face. (Because that's what tends to happen.)

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

40 minutes ago, Jacksoni said:

Just chiming in to say that the 9th pick is clear dissapointment. With some luck we'll get that redhead kid. Doubt it though. With 7th or below we had good chances.

More pain and misery ahead.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge lol. 

[BringBack19 110]

One of Glass, Suzuki, Valimaki, Tippett will most likely be available so it will be ok guys. If there was one draft to be a little unlucky it was this one. If we get a lottery pick next year we will all be thankful it happened the way it did. After reading Dr. Dangles if Suzuki was 2" taller he would be a lottery pick. Plus he doesn't play small or avoid physical play. 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I'd be cool with Tippett, Hague, Suzuki or Liljegren...in that order.

[kliq 3,755]

3 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

I don't think Tavares wants to go from one crappy situation to another if he decides to leave the Islanders. Trading for Trouba would be awesome but it would take Mantha or AA + and I would rather trade AA than Mantha but it's wash up and Trouba is easily worth it. In terms of DD I agree with you, he had 1 bad season way to early to give up on him. If Tavares becomes available this season there is a huge problem: 1.) crappy team and 2.) where is the cap space I think signing some guys to PTR, 1 year contracts and flipping them for picks should be considered, just don't bring Green or anyone else back. Keeping Z to mentor the kids is enough veteran presence you don't need a bunch of veterans to show the kids how it's done, Z and Kronner are more than enough.

9th pick well the question is, forward or defenseman so he could slot in either way after some time.

I did address that. If we moved Glendening, Sheahan, Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby and Green that saves us about 28 million.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I did address that. If we moved Glendening, Sheahan, Howard, E, Nielsen, Abby and Green that saves us about 28 million.

Keep dreaming. First, nobody would want them, and second Holland won't trade them.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

3 hours ago, BringBack19 said:

One of Glass, Suzuki, Valimaki, Tippett will most likely be available so it will be ok guys. If there was one draft to be a little unlucky it was this one. If we get a lottery pick next year we will all be thankful it happened the way it did. After reading Dr. Dangles if Suzuki was 2" taller he would be a lottery pick. Plus he doesn't play small or avoid physical play. 

I personally don't want Glass. He has a lot of size but I don't think he has the skill to be a top line guy in the NHL. Merely my opinion but I see him as more a solid 3rd line player.