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brett

Red Wings drop 2 spots, will pick 9th in NHL Draft

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First time poster here.

This year's draft lottery proved to me that tanking is not a viable solution for improving your team.  It seems like anyone can get lucky and win a top 3 pick.  As for the draft, I don't think  I care who we take as long as they meet 2 conditions.

1.  Being consistently ranked in the top 15.

2.  Not being an undersized european forward.  This means Elias Petterson and Martin Necas are big no nos for me.

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A worse record gives you a better chance at a top 3 pick.  Tanking is a little more of a risk now, but still better than picking 12-16 every year.

Petterson has the frame to be a big boy.  Necas should be able to get up to 195 or so, that's plenty big enough.  Remember, Kronwall was something like 165 and considered to be too small.  When I was 18 I weighed 145, when I was in peak shape, I was at 195.

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23 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

First time poster here.

This year's draft lottery proved to me that tanking is not a viable solution for improving your team.  It seems like anyone can get lucky and win a top 3 pick.  As for the draft, I don't think  I care who we take as long as they meet 2 conditions.

1.  Being consistently ranked in the top 15.

2.  Not being an undersized european forward.  This means Elias Petterson and Martin Necas are big no nos for me.

Welcome to LGW! I'm not a huge fan of Petterson or Necas either. I see them more in the 10-20 range. Not top 10.

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50 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

First time poster here.

This year's draft lottery proved to me that tanking is not a viable solution for improving your team.  It seems like anyone can get lucky and win a top 3 pick.  As for the draft, I don't think  I care who we take as long as they meet 2 conditions.

1.  Being consistently ranked in the top 15.

2.  Not being an undersized european forward.  This means Elias Petterson and Martin Necas are big no nos for me.

Welcome to the Forum!

As Dickie said, those 2 guys are 6'1" and 6'2" - they're on the skinny side since they're both in the 160-170 range, but I wouldn't consider them undersized. They're only 18 and they'll put on weight before they get to the NHL.

If you want to stay away from undersized players, to me that would be Cale Makar, Tolvanen.

I think at this point, I'm really hoping Liljegren drops to us or Valimaki. I'm also liking KIlm Kostin the more I'm finding out about him. Saw one mock draft with us taking him.

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3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:


Keep dreaming. First, nobody would want them, and second Holland won't trade them.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

If you re-read what I wrote, I was telling Frank what I would do, I was not saying what I thought Holland would do.

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3 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I personally don't want Glass. He has a lot of size but I don't think he has the skill to be a top line guy in the NHL. Merely my opinion but I see him as more a solid 3rd line player. 

I don't think he is going to get past Vancouver so it doesn't matter. According to Vancouvers version of wiim he has been heavily scouted by their organization. 

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I think at this point, I'm really hoping Liljegren drops to us or Valimaki.

Thoughts on a potential Finnish defense pairing of Saarijarvi and Valimaki? I like the fact that Valimaki has spent some time on NA sized ice in the WHL, and should compliment Saarrijarvi nicely with a LH shot and physical presence.

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1 hour ago, nowhere2005 said:


Thoughts on a potential Finnish defense pairing of Saarijarvi and Valimaki? I like the fact that Valimaki has spent some time on NA sized ice in the WHL, and should compliment Saarrijarvi nicely with a LH shot and physical presence.

That's a thought. As we're talking about undersized players, Saarjarvi is still a long short for NHL to me because his size (5'9" or 10" depending on where you check it out). In the AHL at least we could see that.

I don't really think you need to match nationalities anyway, though. The styles of hockey aren't as different as they use to be and these guys have been in Canada for the last few years to anyway. Maybe if they've played together on international team and found chemistry it would be a good idea. Or so they can yell out secret orders in Finnish to each other, haha.

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Saarijarvi is the same height as Brian Rafalski...a player he's been compared to by broadcasters calling the OHL playoffs.  I've watched some of those games as well.  Saarijarvi is most definitely an NHL prospect

Rafalski is exactly who I was thinking of, and there's also Tory Krug in Boston, who would be the closest current comparable player I can think of.

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I really haven't watched Saarijarvi except some highlight, so I trust you guys. It's just hard to make it as a small defenceman so I'm skeptical. I've seen him listed at 5'9" on some sites like WIIM, but maybe he's not that small

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/8/13/12442398/detroit-red-wings-top-25-under-25-vili-saarijarvi

But there are the spurgeons of the league, so I hope Saarjarvi and maybe Hicketts find a way. They both have impressive resumes otherwise.

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On 1.5.2017 at 3:11 PM, Dabura said:

This is exactly the kind of mentality that the league is trying to discourage. And good on them!

"Your organization iced a bad team? Well, don't expect to be 'rewarded' for it. And, no, the lesson you should take from this is not that you should've iced an even worse team. You're a professional sports franchise, not Gollum."

The Wings aren't in a hopeless place right now. We missed the playoffs for the first time in 25 years, we're picking in the top ten this year, and we have some good young players that aren't necessarily inferior to the average top-ten pick. (Mantha, Larkin, Hicketts, Hronek, Sambrook, Svechnikov, Saarijarvi, Athanasiou. And we might land Victor Ejdsell, who, from what I can tell, is very promising.) The team is getting younger. We're a bad team (but not actively trying to fail, i.e. we're trying to maintain a winning culture, which is indeed important) and we're probably going to be bad for at least the next three years, no matter what we do.

It's early days, but next year's draft class is looking incredibly deep. Rasmus Dahlin is phenomenal. Andrei Svechnikov might not even go in the top five. Players who might've challenged for the top spot in this year's draft class could be available in the 5-10 range.

You do realize 4ov > 9ov right because that's the most a team finishing with the worst record can fall.  And yes other than Larkin, Mantha and maybe AA (if he becomes more defensive aware and works harder) are worse than you average top 10 pick. There is reason why some guys are picked higher.

Which winning culture? Adding a bunch of patchworks (= what Toronto did under Burke) to maybe make the playoffs no thanks, rather see the kids learn and by doing so get some picks that could help sooner rather than later

I know to some even this season wasn't an eye opener so it's pointless to argue but I would easily trade this roster for the one the Sabres, Leafs, Oilers!!! and even Florida has.

If Dahlin can add a serious amount of muscle and keep his skaing than yes he would be a great pick but in order to get the big price (= if you think it's Dahlin) you need to sink with the kids and NOT sign veterans or trade away prospects and picks just to make the playoffs simple.

 

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Hopefully they change the lottery rules so every team that doesnt make the playoffs has an equal chance at every pick, I think this is the only way to fix the "tanking" mindset.

5 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

I know to some even this season wasn't an eye opener so it's pointless to argue but I would easily trade this roster for the one the Sabres, Leafs, Oilers!!! and even Florida has.

lol is anyone arguing otherwise? I've said many times I like the re-build on the fly approach that Toronto has used in the past few seasons.

Edited by kliq

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18 hours ago, joesuffP said:

Sarijaarvi looks like one of our best prospects atm 

Yep, and he is playing on the same team as Tippett and Hague. If we don't any moving on draft day, I hope the stars align!

10 hours ago, F.Michael said:

We all know Holland though - there's no stopping him from picking a guy that's projected to go 20th overall at the 9th spot.

Easy, you are on the verge on calling that a "Holland Pick" which I have been scolded that it does not exist! That it's a false narrative, no such thing. :lol:

 

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I've looked at multiple mock drafts, one has us taking Pettersson, another taking Rassmussen, 2 of them has us taking Kostin, another taking Necas, Tolvanen and then this one: (which, BTW, was the 3rd one I pulled up.)

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

Detroit.gif
9

Ht/Wt:6' 2"/200 lbs
Position:RW
Team: Mississauga (OHL)

 

I'll take it!

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58 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I've looked at multiple mock drafts, one has us taking Pettersson, another taking Rassmussen, 2 of them has us taking Kostin, another taking Necas, Tolvanen and then this one: (which, BTW, was the 3rd one I pulled up.)

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

Detroit.gif
9

Ht/Wt:6' 2"/200 lbs
Position:RW
Team: Mississauga (OHL)

 

I'll take it!

In other words it's anyone's guess who we take, or any other teams in the top 10 for that matter. And just when we think we have it figured out, the wings will trade the pick.

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On 5/1/2017 at 0:34 PM, DickieDunn said:


Keep dreaming. First, nobody would want them, and second Holland won't trade them.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

I think we could move green. Someone might want him since he only has one year left.

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18 minutes ago, Krayzie_Bone said:

I think we could move green. Someone might want him since he only has one year left.

If we are sellers at the deadline,unless he goes through a huge regression there is no doubt in my mind that he could go for a 1st round pick, or at worst a 2nd.

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21 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

You do realize 4ov > 9ov right because that's the most a team finishing with the worst record can fall.  And yes other than Larkin, Mantha and maybe AA (if he becomes more defensive aware and works harder) are worse than you average top 10 pick. There is reason why some guys are picked higher.

Which winning culture? Adding a bunch of patchworks (= what Toronto did under Burke) to maybe make the playoffs no thanks, rather see the kids learn and by doing so get some picks that could help sooner rather than later

I know to some even this season wasn't an eye opener so it's pointless to argue but I would easily trade this roster for the one the Sabres, Leafs, Oilers!!! and even Florida has.

If Dahlin can add a serious amount of muscle and keep his skaing than yes he would be a great pick but in order to get the big price (= if you think it's Dahlin) you need to sink with the kids and NOT sign veterans or trade away prospects and picks just to make the playoffs simple.

It's great that you'd trade our roster for the Leafs' roster. But, tell me: Would you also trade our past ten years for the Leafs' past ten years?

Before you answer, understand a few things.

First, that the Leafs haven't won a damn thing in the past 500 years.

Second, that the Leafs under Shanahan didn't get to where they are now by blowing it all up, trading all the veterans, playing all the kids. In fact, they signed some veterans so that they could flip them for picks at the trade deadline, which would seem to go against your "DON'T SIGN VETERANS. NO VETERANS ALLOWED. ONLY KIDS. THE MORE KIDS YOU HAVE, THE STRONGER YOUR TANK WILL BE AND THE BETTER THE KIDS WILL BECOME. THIS IS SCIENCE" line of reasoning.

Third, the Leafs of the past ten years or so were the ultimate example of a team that isn't a contender but won't admit it and is therefore stuck in no man's land.

Fourth, most of the Leafs' current leaders were acquired when the Leafs were in denial about their situation and were trying to compete for the Cup. They drafted Luke Schenn 5th overall in 2008 and traded him to the Flyers for James van Riemsdyk in 2012. They drafted Nazem Kadri 7th overall in 2009. They drafted Morgan Rielly 5th overall in 2012. They traded for Jake Gardiner (Ducks, 13th overall in 2008) in 2013. You could argue the Leafs began to accept reality in 2014, but there was no "All kids, no veterans" scorched earth tear-down, and they ended up drafting William Nylander 8th overall.

Again, the Wings aren't in a hopeless place. We missed the playoffs for the first time in a quarter century and 9th overall is our highest position since Keith Primeau. Not the pot of gold we'd hoped for, but it's a start. And that's where we are: the beginning stages of a rebuild.

Your take on the situation? "Everything is awful, blow it up, trade all the veterans, play all the kids, forget what's best for the kids' development, forget flipping UFA signings for picks at the deadline, all that matters is having a roster full of kids and getting the best lottery odds. Odds, odds, odds, odds, odds. Buffalo knows what I'm talking about. Toronto knows what I'm taking about. Edmonton knows what I'm talking about. Florida knows what I'm talking about. They all traded their veterans and played all their kids and got awesome lottery odds and got awesome young players and they only had to go through maybe one or two years of pain and now they're all Cup contenders and all their fans are like, 'Yep, it's been pretty awesome for us. Thankfully, we've been blessed with awesome owners and awesome general managers who have consistently done awesome things. We pity you, Wings fans. Truly, we do. You've suffered for so long. You deserve better.'"

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