The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I guess losing Mrazek stil is odd just for the fact we didn't protect Sheahan either. He comes cheap and bouncing back isn't that unlikely. Plus, there are no "issues" reported in any kind of way. They probably take Sheahan and pick up Fleury as their starting goalie. Edited June 19, 2017 by The Datsyukian Deke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Me! On another note, this was just published to the score fwiw. Report: Mrazek's attitude issues led to Howard's protection https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1320875Doesn't say much of anything, just a little speculationSent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, DickieDunn said: So are you saying people will ***** no matter what? Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk Is the sky blue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Yeah, I've been wondering about this. If it's true, things make a little more sense, I guess. Why might Holland risk losing Mrazek for nothing? Because a bad attitude could make Mrazek more trouble than he's worth in the eyes of the powers that be, and maybe they'd just be happy to free up the $4M in cap space and move on. Why might Holland have failed to find someone willing to trade for Mrazek? Attitude problem + $4M cap hit + hasn't established himself as a really good NHL goalie. Maybe Mrazek has a "reputation," one that makes him unlikely to be taken by Vegas. It could just be spin. But, at the very least, we know there was that incident where he skated off during practice (or whatever. I don't remember the exact details) and supposedly caught flak for it. And HSJ has been kind of passive-aggressively anti-Mrazek for the past several months. I know HSJ says dumb things, but I wonder if that whole "The Wings should protect Coreau and trade Mrazek" thing wasn't based on some inside info -- specifically, that the powers that be aren't happy with Mrazek. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯I stopped reading anything by HSJ the second I read she thought Coreau should be protected. They might not be happy with Mrazek because of his attitude and his failure to live up to what he's shown he's capable of, but that's not an uncommon situation with young players with high ceilings in the NHL. Mrazek hasn't faced many struggles in his career. Dominated the AHL and stole the starting job in Detroit when they didn't even need him to at that point. Since he's regressed, many have written him off. Hasn't been that long, especially for a goalie. He's lost confidence, but that doesn't mean he won't rebound. One more year on his contract then RFA. Not like he was locked up to a Jimmy deal. And the team is going nowhere. I would let him have that last season. Out of Holland's hands until Vegas picks now though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1320723-the-7-best-goalies-made-available-to-the-golden-knightsSeven best goalies available to Vegas. Look who's second under Fleury. Vegas can take 7 goalies. Scary how everyone except Holland expected him to be protected. Time to go Kenny.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 BadgerBob reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,914 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) I know what Kenny is up to! He loses Mrazek and frees up $4M, he then trades the #9 to Anaheim for Fowler, who was just (hypothetically) extended 8 years. It's all clear now! Edited June 19, 2017 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, marcaractac said: We all know that won't happen until Holland doesn't draft Tippett and Hague Why weren't they on our protected list?! 1 marcaractac reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 I can see McPhee taking both Fleury, and Mrazek.Pretty much. What's he got to lose. He can take every goalie on that list if he feels like it. That was one of the things he talked about doing. Take all the goalies he can, keep who he wants, flip the rest. Luongo is a bit of a surprise to be exposed over Reimer, but he's near the end of his career, so I can see justification in it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kjw25 104 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Everyone is on Holland but they forget all the good things he has done! Holland signed Abby for that long term deal. He also signed Helm to that terrific deal and lets not forgot about the great deal he got signing DeKesyer!! What about at last years draft when there was a ready NHL defenseman available but he instead trades Pavels contract in order to get Frans, who by the way will never win a cup with the wings!! But Holland doesnt believe in rebuilding, just putting bandaids on over and over. Only problem with that is they keep coming off and HOLLAND CANNOT SEE THE TEAM NEEDS TO REBUILD AND BE BUILT UP!!!!! P.S-Ericsson is another great contract, so was Weiss. WHY IS HOLLAND NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS??????? 1 chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, kjw25 said: Everyone is on Holland but they forget all the good things he has done! Holland signed Abby for that long term deal. He also signed Helm to that terrific deal and lets not forgot about the great deal he got signing DeKesyer!! What about at last years draft when there was a ready NHL defenseman available but he instead trades Pavels contract in order to get Frans, who by the way will never win a cup with the wings!! But Holland doesnt believe in rebuilding, just putting bandaids on over and over. Only problem with that is they keep coming off and HOLLAND CANNOT SEE THE TEAM NEEDS TO REBUILD AND BE BUILT UP!!!!! P.S-Ericsson is another great contract, so was Weiss. WHY IS HOLLAND NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS??????? Most likely those who over see him, are on the same page as him. If holland was going against ownership with the moves you listed he would have been gone years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Richdg said: this post is rubbish. Z is now a 2C on a good team. That is it. We are 3+ years from contending for a Cup. His back will not make it that long. But again it is a mute point. First, you claimed he doesnt put up good numbers anymore (obviously leading me to expose that you haven't watched hockey this season). Second, have you checked how many games he's missed the last 2 seasons after his supposed "back" issue? You're points make absolutely no sense. The least you could do it try look look stuff up if you don't watch hockey anymore. Edited June 19, 2017 by kickazz 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Pretty much. What's he got to lose. He can take every goalie on that list if he feels like it. That was one of the things he talked about doing. Take all the goalies he can, keep who he wants, flip the rest. Luongo is a bit of a surprise to be exposed over Reimer, but he's near the end of his career, so I can see justification in it. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhy would he want to pay 2 goalies a huge salary when he can have a very good tandem for like 6 Mill. The real pieces are going to be draft picks that's why McPhee said every team will have the option to keep their current roster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Turned to hH (hate Holland) threads quickly. But everyone saw it coming obviously. 54 minutes ago, frankgrimes said: The real pieces are going to be draft picks that's why McPhee said every team will have the option to keep their current roster Yes. And to negotiate trade scenarios. McPhee won´t pick Mrazek just because he can (he has Fleury and some other cheaper options), he must have some real proposal from another team. AND there it goes: why should, let´s say, Arizona or Flyers ´trade´ with Vegas for Mrazek? They could call directly do Holland telling him they have some proposal with LV to re-trade Mrazek and if maybe Holland could make direct trade two days later to don´t let go Petr for free and Ari/Phi get better price than with Vegas. Vegas situation is quite tricky at the end.. Picking just for obtaining trade chips could slide their trading value leaving Vegas with pack of unwanted players and if we´re speaking about 2Gs, then there´s absolute no need to hurry, teams could wait to TDL easy. I don´t believe there´s no plan behind leaving Mrazek unprotected, that was too no-brainer even for Holland. Dallas need to get rid of Lehtonen and they´re open to trade their 3rd OA. I don´t believe Petr will go for free if he´s going somewhere. If yes then facepalm, proper owner would kick him instantly in that case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Mrazek's contract should't be an issue for Vegas. Last year, so if his play doesn't pick up, he goes somewhere else. Little risk taking him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Most likely those who over see him, are on the same page as him. If holland was going against ownership with the moves you listed he would have been gone years ago.The problem definitely doesn't begin and end with Holland. Jimmy D sort of seems to be just "there", although he sees the obvious need for change, it's not something he can do on his own. Chris Illitch seems to concentrate more on selling pizza than anything, and seems like he has a "Holland will do what he'll do, the team is in good hands cause my Dad believed in him" sort of attitude.But, we all better get used to the bonehead moves (like we aren't already), and that even the most obvious things everyone expects any GM with a sound mind would be done, won't be. Even if this team ends up dead last after this season, he will get another four year extension. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, DickieDunn said: Mrazek's contract should't be an issue for Vegas. Last year, so if his play doesn't pick up, he goes somewhere else. Little risk taking him. If they land fleury no chance they'll commit 10 mill To goalies, have to worry about another team wanting mrazek but I can't see anyone giving up a first gotta ask if Vegas wants a 2nd or sheahan who'd likely also get a 2nd?gives them a former 6'3 1st round center and maybe draft a pickard for Arizona or Vancouver instead ? gotta think Vegas takes fleury grubauer and ullmark for minors , maybe Raanta as the backup or most likely as a trade chip, can't see them taking him on for themselves when he can walk away at seasons end and wouldn't get much at the deadline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,960 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Hossa, Samuelsson part 2, Cleaey parts 2, 3, and 4, Miller parts 2 and 3, Colo, etc etc etc. Ken Holland sucks. It should be painfully obvious that our idiot GM was just filling a seat while Devellano's core, Scotty's player management, and Hakan Andersson's Euro gems were winning us cups. When Scotty left, the Wings started free falling from grace and the Blackhawks rose to 3 Stanleys. Holland ha drafted terribly over the last 10 years, and his UFA moves have been horrible as well. He needs to go. He is not what the Red Wings need at GM. They need a progressive who understands that this team needs 1 guy out of this draft and will do what it takes to get him. Even if that means giving up a Larkin, Mantha, or Athanasiou. We do not have a 1C. Nolan Patrick is that guy. Anything short of him this draft is a total fail. A little unrealistic there, Bill 2 kliq and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Hossa, Samuelsson part 2, Cleaey parts 2, 3, and 4, Miller parts 2 and 3, Colo, etc etc etc. Ken Holland sucks. It should be painfully obvious that our idiot GM was just filling a seat while Devellano's core, Scotty's player management, and Hakan Andersson's Euro gems were winning us cups. When Scotty left, the Wings started free falling from grace and the Blackhawks rose to 3 Stanleys. Holland ha drafted terribly over the last 10 years, and his UFA moves have been horrible as well. He needs to go. He is not what the Red Wings need at GM. They need a progressive who understands that this team needs 1 guy out of this draft and will do what it takes to get him. Even if that means giving up a Larkin, Mantha, or Athanasiou. We do not have a 1C. Nolan Patrick is that guy. Anything short of him this draft is a total fail. Not unrealistic expectations there at all lol. Doesn't matter who our GM was, that is not going to happen. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Bill's just setting up his argument to trash talk Holland post-draft. His mission is to make sure he's got the best premise laid out for it. He knows Nolan Patrick is unrealistic and knows it's the best way to trash talk Holland even if we somehow got a really good player at #9. Edited June 19, 2017 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 19 hours ago, chaps80 said: Yeah, I forgot in Wings land that one bad season defines a goalie for his entire career. Good thing they didn't give up on Osgood so easily. They actually traded their Conn Smythe winning starter to give him the net and show confidence in him. Mrazek just seems to get railroaded at every turn. Sure, he was named the starter at one point, but they still had Howard on the bench because he couldn't be traded. That can affect some goalies performance, knowing the job isn't truly theirs, and if they mess up, the guy who's had the net for the past 5-6 years will get it right back. Then Howard gets injured, which should have been Mrazek's time. Instead, Coreau gets a lot of the starts, and ends up with a 3.46 GAA and sv% well under 9.00. Why not let Mrazek work through things when your call up is playing that badly? He eventually got it together towards the end of the season, but still alternated starts with Howard. How hard is it to remove the distractions and stop throwing things in his way to further his development? If he does end up elsewhere after the draft, it may be the best thing for him, cause he won't get a fair shake in Detroit. I honestly haven't seen an organization give up on goaltender with his skill set and potential so quickly. Howard was coddled in the AHL until he ran out of eligibility. Then kept around through bad seasons, injuries, and a major lack of playoff performance for the most part. He'll be on LTIR or retired before this team ever sniffs a Cup again. The last person I want in net is someone with a fragile ego and the ability to get shaken easily. If Mraz can't handle the pressure of something as basic as a qualified starter backing him up, how can you reasonably expect him to handle real adversity (which he has also struggled with)? 5 Frozen-Man, kliq, kickazz and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 The last person I want in net is someone with a fragile ego and the ability to get shaken easily. If Mraz can't handle the pressure of something as basic as a qualified starter backing him up, how can you reasonably expect him to handle real adversity (which he has also struggled with)?It's called development. Not every goalie comes into the league with their head on straight ready for anything. Holland has even said that Mrazek hasn't faced much, if any, adversity in his career up until a couple years ago. I mentioned Osgood, Holland trading Vernon to give him full reign. That's what you do. You'd prefer Howard/Coreau going into next season. One can get lit up and have a bad injury, the other will just get lit up. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLeast Matej being around if Mraz is plucked gives me some sense of relief.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 1 minute ago, chaps80 said: It's called development. Not every goalie comes into the league with their head on straight ready for anything. Holland has even said that Mrazek hasn't faced much, if any, adversity in his career up until a couple years ago. I mentioned Osgood, Holland trading Vernon to give him full reign. That's what you do. You'd prefer Howard/Coreau going into next season. One can get lit up and have a bad injury, the other will just get lit up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think Howard/Coreau is a disaster waiting to happen, something I already mentioned in this thread. Regardless of whether Holland went with Mrazek or Howard, I think a priority in this offseason is finding an established backup who is capable of playing half the season if need be, because Mrazek has shown he's too inconsistent (and as you alluded to mentally fragile) to handle the top spot, and Howard is injury prone. Frankly I think the real issue here isn't a Mrazek vs Howard one, but who is going to be on the bench waiting on the likely event one of those two is unavailable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 Mrazek's attitude problems must be pretty severe if Holland is okay with losing him for nothing and sending a clear message of what management thinks of him. I think of it as Holland basically trying to keep Sheahan over Mrazek but who knows who Vegas takes. Personally I could care less who Vegas takes as long as there's a bit of cap relief. Major focus should be drafting and clearing up some bad contracts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, chaps80 said: It's called development. Not every goalie comes into the league with their head on straight ready for anything. Holland has even said that Mrazek hasn't faced much, if any, adversity in his career up until a couple years ago. I mentioned Osgood, Holland trading Vernon to give him full reign. That's what you do. You'd prefer Howard/Coreau going into next season. One can get lit up and have a bad injury, the other will just get lit up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Least Matej being around if Mraz is plucked gives me some sense of relief. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is all interesting because two years ago, you and others were bashing Howard for being mentally weak and praising Mrazek for his mental strength. Now I see the mental weakness that Mrazek has shown has turned into an excuse in his case. But for Howard it was a reason to get rid of him. Edited June 19, 2017 by kickazz 1 THATANK911 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted June 19, 2017 I think based solely on performance Mrazek deserved another shot this year. I think a trade was requested added with the attitude problems and management is just sick of him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites