Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, chaps80 said:

 

Holland doesn't say much about anything. He thinks he's smart and sneaky or something, but the whole league knows he's screwed royally.




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Lol ok, you're a sports managerial pro I guess, you know how well top GM-ing works don't you. 

[kliq 3,755]

4 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I dont want to completely discredit Holland, as the smartest people are those who surtound themselves with good help.  But Holland better find some good help quick.  It's not pretty right now.  I think we can both agree to that.

To be honest, I think Holland was one of the best GM's in the game for years, but I think over the past few years he has ran into problems for many reasons. 

I think the game evolved and he fell behind, I think he suffered from not having high picks and not having the luxury of finding gems late in the draft anymore, I think he has had some bad luck, I think he has signed too many vets to long term contracts, and I think that the cyclical nature of this game has caught up with him.

The issue I have with some, is because of their overall feelings of Holland they nitpick every little thing he does.

Hopefully he turns this around, only time will tell.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I agree with all of this.  But I think it's time for some new blood.  That's where I think we differ.  Holland was untouchable, and he should go out that way.  Retire after this contract, and he will be very favorably remembered.  Drag out the process until a forceable removal, and it wont be quite as good.

You must be slow. Hes a numbskull. Fire him tomorrow.

[kliq 3,755]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I agree with all of this.  But I think it's time for some new blood.  That's where I think we differ.  Holland was untouchable, and he should go out that way.  Retire after this contract, and he will be very favorably remembered.  Drag out the process until a forceable removal, and it wont be quite as good.

For me it all depends on who his replacement is. I would prefer Holland over ALOT of guys, but if the right person came along, I wouldn't be against it.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You are aware that Howard is only 33 and that Pavelec likely wont be returning the Jets or the NHL at all? Howard has a lot more time left in the NHL than Pavelec does lol

Only  33?only? s*** Howard's never done anything his whole career but after a 25 game stretch his career will now skyrocket at the tender age of 33

 

your aware I was talking about mrazek right?howard has 4 more yrs probably if he's lucky ....At least we'll get first overall with howard/Coreau 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I seriously wonder how much of the sign vets and keep the streak going at all costs attitude came from Holland and how much from upstairs.

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[DickieDunn 2,571]

Sorry, dude.  You are right.  But I just have a hatd time blaming players.  I truly believe that they give what they can, and it's up to the GM to pick the right ones and the coach to play them in the right order and at the right times.  
 

Some players believe that they are better than they are. Some feel like making it to the NHL, or even AHL, is good enough. Some have the skill to be better than they are but would rather spend their time partying and banging a different chick every night than working on their game. That's a lot of the reason for bust picks in the top 10. The difference between an Yzerman and a Daigle isn't talent as much as loving the game and being willing to put in the effort.

My brother worked at Kent County jail for a few years. One of the deputies did some moonlighting as security for the Griffins and got to know a lot of the players. Daryl Bootland always complained that the Wings hated him and were unfairly holding him back, then spent most of his time away from the ice drinking and chasing women. Other guys did some of that but also hit the gym hard and we're on the ice when they could be working on their game. They made it, Bootland and those types didn't.

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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Im right there with you brother. This forum treats Mrazek like he's the next coming of Hasek, when in reality he's much closer to Pavelec. The off ice issues only compound the problem. But hey, cool new toys are more fun than old toys that break once in a while. I think theres a toy story movie about that.

 

12 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

And Howard's closer to retirement so give me pavelec over retirement any day

 

7 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Only  33?only? s*** Howard's never done anything his whole career but after a 25 game stretch his career will now skyrocket at the tender age of 33

 

your aware I was talking about mrazek right?howard has 4 more yrs probably if he's lucky ....At least we'll get first overall with howard/Coreau 

Sureeeee you were lol

[chaps80 1,591]

Lol ok, you're a sports managerial pro I guess, you know how well top GM-ing works don't you. 

No, I simply have eyes and ears and can look at the roster he's assembled that's in cap hell loaded with horrible deals for guys who can't and won't live up to them, and listen to his comments, which for the most part are vague drivel with "playoffs" sprinkled in. Even if this team did manage to squeak into the playoffs again, they'd get demolished in the first round AGAIN. His mind is stuck in the glory days, and he hasn't adapted well to the cap. Anyone can see that. Had the highest payroll in the league last season (including LTIR and buyouts), and finished 25th. Good thing he's on the final year of his contract, but odds are around 99.9% that he'll get another extension from little Illitch.


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[Frozen-Man 144]

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1320723-the-7-best-goalies-made-available-to-the-golden-knights

 

Top 7 not 9

 

13 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Well I'll have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Cory Wilkins, whoever that is lol

You take Fleury because Flower is the best available, no brainer. 

After that you have Grubauer, Raanta, and Korpisalo, possibly Pickard. I would take 2 of those, possibly all 4 depending on ability to flip them. You let one grow under Fleury until flowers contract runs out, or its time to trade him because the underling has become the master. 

Mrazek is not in this position. Hes already 25, coming off a horrific season, already makes more money than hes worth, and reportedly has off ice issues with managment and coaching staff.

Only way you take Petr is to flip him, and apparently Ken Holland cant flip him, so why take him?

I may have been reading it wrong but I didn't take that article as saying Mrazek is #2 out of the seven goalies listed just that he is one of the seven best goalies available in the expansion draft. 

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/golden-knights-shouldn-t-hesitate-to-draft-mrazek-after-red-wings-puzzling-decision

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 hour ago, Keep Your Stick On the Ice said:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/golden-knights-shouldn-t-hesitate-to-draft-mrazek-after-red-wings-puzzling-decision

I like how they say "puzzling decision" when in actuality its a STUPID, IDIOTIC, DUMBASS decision.  It's also a vengeful decision.  It's said because Holland couldn't/wouldn't trade Howard, that is why Mrazek has the attitude, so this is Holland's revenge.  Much like why Fedorov's number won't, but should, be retired until Holland is no longer here. It's Holland's ego that is the problem.  There is no reason why, if Mrazek is such a bad person, that Holland couldn't trade him for a pick, hell even a 7th, just to get something for him, but no, he has to rub salt in the face of Mrazek and leave him unprotected like he is worth dog s*** to Holland.  I hope Vegas takes him and he becomes everything most of us hoped he would become here. Fleury has what, 2 years left at $5.75M, Mrazek has 1 year at $4M then he is still an RFA.  I can see them taking both because they do need to get above $45M is salary IIRC, and They could easily do a 1a 1b tandem until Fleury's contract is up.  This is just a bad move by Holland (again) much like opting on Hudler/Franzen over Hossa and much like re-signing Helm and many of the other stupid things he has done due to "loyalty" to players even though they are the lessor option. Attitude or not, he should've protected Mrazek and then if he had to, trade him. Until we know Wednesday, I guess this is all up in the air, but it was really not a puzzling decision, it was the Juck ******* Pott once again. All praise Holland!

Damn I cannot wait until I am utterly disappointed Friday....

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I like how they say "puzzling decision" when in actuality its a STUPID, IDIOTIC, DUMBASS decision.  It's also a vengeful decision.  It's said because Holland couldn't/wouldn't trade Howard, that is why Mrazek has the attitude, so this is Holland's revenge.  Much like why Fedorov's number won't, but should, be retired until Holland is no longer here. It's Holland's ego that is the problem.  There is no reason why, if Mrazek is such a bad person, that Holland couldn't trade him for a pick, hell even a 7th, just to get something for him, but no, he has to rub salt in the face of Mrazek and leave him unprotected like he is worth dog s*** to Holland.  I hope Vegas takes him and he becomes everything most of us hoped he would become here. Fleury has what, 2 years left at $5.75M, Mrazek has 1 year at $4M then he is still an RFA.  I can see them taking both because they do need to get above $45M is salary IIRC, and They could easily do a 1a 1b tandem until Fleury's contract is up.  This is just a bad move by Holland (again) much like opting on Hudler/Franzen over Hossa and much like re-signing Helm and many of the other stupid things he has done due to "loyalty" to players even though they are the lessor option. Attitude or not, he should've protected Mrazek and then if he had to, trade him. Until we know Wednesday, I guess this is all up in the air, but it was really not a puzzling decision, it was the Juck ******* Pott once again. All praise Holland!

Damn I cannot wait until I am utterly disappointed Friday....

Breath killer

Why Mrazek - The Athletic

Quote

The strain between the Red Wings and Mrazek goes back before that. Last July, the two sides avoided arbitration in agreeing on a two-year deal worth $4 million on average per season. It was an agreement that didn’t just go down to the wire, it went beyond the wire in delaying the hearing to get an agreement done. Both sides were dug in on a number and ultimately Mrazek believed he was worth $4 million per season. He got his way.

“It was last second,” said one source close to Mrazek.

It was a great example of what makes Mrazek such a good goalie when he’s on – he has swagger. He has confidence in himself. He believed he was worth a number and he wouldn’t budge. Nothing wrong with that. He just needed to back it up.

It didn’t happen during the regular season, one in which he was outplayed considerably by Jimmy Howard. It didn’t happen in the World Championships, where Mrazek lost playing time to KHL goalie Pavel Francouz after posting an .881 save percentage for the Czech Republic.

When things went sideways for Mrazek this season, there was concern internally about his response. Rather than digging in and trying to work his way out of it, Mrazek, according to multiple sources, soured and placed the blame elsewhere.

Contrasted against Howard, whose work ethic picked up when his play went south in previous seasons, it presented a tough decision for an organization with an embedded belief in culture and work ethic for its best players.

“Work has never been a problem in Detroit,” said one NHL source outside the Red Wings organization. “And there’s a changing of the guard and the leadership is changing. You can’t let that creep in. If that guy, who doesn’t want to work, is going to be handed your No. 1 goalie job, it changes everything.”

Mrazek was shopped before the expansion draft protection lists were solidified and there wasn’t serious interest. A big reason for that was because teams would have had to protect him in the expansion draft and at $4 million, it wasn’t enough of an upgrade over their current goalies to pull the trigger. Calgary, a team that showed some interest, opted for Mike Smith as the goalie they wanted in the short term to try and win games while also working with the young, talented goalies coming in the Flames organization.

A source from another team that needs a goalie said they were less worried about Mrazek’s work ethic and more worried about his ability to consistently stop pucks. He doesn’t have prototypical NHL goalie size and relies on his strong athleticism to make saves, something that hasn’t happened consistently enough lately.

“He’s got tremendous skill. Great skill,” said one goalie coach. “He’s tremendously athletic but he makes simple saves very hard because he ends up in bad places.”

So a trade wasn’t an option, and the Red Wings had to make the call on what kind of message it would send internally if Mrazek was protected and what life might look like in the short term if Howard was unprotected and actually selected. We know now what that decision was.

What’s next: This decision could end up making Red Wings management look bad. Let’s say the Philadelphia Flyers work out a deal with Vegas GM George McPhee to select Mrazek. If that serves as a wake-up call and Mrazek combines his high-end athleticism with a work ethic to prove doubters in Detroit wrong and has a big year, it could be a decision that costs jobs. That’s the risk and it’s a big one.

McPhee has better options in goal to help build the Golden Knights, with Penguins goalie Marc-Andre Fleury expected to be picked as the starter. McPhee has other strong options in Washington goalie Philipp Grubauer, Colorado’s Calvin Pickard and New York’s Antti Raanta, among others. Grubauer is especially intriguing as a goalie McPhee knows well from his Washington days and who is still just 25 years old. He had a .926 save percentage last season.

But Mrazek is talented, young and now jilted, which could be an appealing combination for McPhee, who can take some risks in the name of building for the future.

According to an executive on another team, Vegas is telling teams they’re not going to overload in goal unless they have a pretty good idea they’re able to move the player in a trade after the expansion draft.

“They could get jammed up,” said the executive. “They’re going to take goalies if they have a deal for one.”

The other wildcard is Detroit’s decision to leave center Riley Sheahan unprotected. If you’re a team in the West, adding a 6-foot-3 center who is still 25 years old may have more appeal than a goalie with a big ticket and questions. In fact, the Red Wings' decision not to trade Sheahan at the deadline when there was real interest, only to leave him unprotected in the expansion draft and risk losing him for nothing, is the bigger sin here.

And if Mrazek goes through the expansion process unclaimed? It may end up working out in Detroit’s favor. A clear message would have been sent both to the goalies and the players on the roster that culture still matters in the organization, even in the midst of a rebuild. Mrazek would have a pretty clear understanding of his value in the league and, perhaps, additional motivation going into the final year of his contract. The key to all of this for Mrazek, no matter where he ends up, is how he responds to the slight.

“He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who is going to dog it,” said another source. “He’s not on a six-year contract. It still puts the onus on the player to perform or else.”

 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Breath killer

Why Mrazek - The Athletic

 

You said BREATH KILLER, and I thought you were referring to my runon paragraph! But you meant BREATHE KILLER,  I guess either way I get what you are saying!

[kickazz 5,459]

18 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I like how they say "puzzling decision" when in actuality its a STUPID, IDIOTIC, DUMBASS decision.  It's also a vengeful decision.  It's said because Holland couldn't/wouldn't trade Howard, that is why Mrazek has the attitude, so this is Holland's revenge.  Much like why Fedorov's number won't, but should, be retired until Holland is no longer here. It's Holland's ego that is the problem.  There is no reason why, if Mrazek is such a bad person, that Holland couldn't trade him for a pick, hell even a 7th, just to get something for him, but no, he has to rub salt in the face of Mrazek and leave him unprotected like he is worth dog s*** to Holland.  I hope Vegas takes him and he becomes everything most of us hoped he would become here. Fleury has what, 2 years left at $5.75M, Mrazek has 1 year at $4M then he is still an RFA.  I can see them taking both because they do need to get above $45M is salary IIRC, and They could easily do a 1a 1b tandem until Fleury's contract is up.  This is just a bad move by Holland (again) much like opting on Hudler/Franzen over Hossa and much like re-signing Helm and many of the other stupid things he has done due to "loyalty" to players even though they are the lessor option. Attitude or not, he should've protected Mrazek and then if he had to, trade him. Until we know Wednesday, I guess this is all up in the air, but it was really not a puzzling decision, it was the Juck ******* Pott once again. All praise Holland!

Damn I cannot wait until I am utterly disappointed Friday....

Lol so you did end up losing it huh lefty?

On 6/18/2017 at 6:47 PM, LeftWinger said:

How many of you guys are disappointed that I'm not the one going nuts?

 

Not anymore 

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

I'm totally fine with the protected/unprotected list. Tough decisions had to be made. I do hope that Sproul doesn't get picked up. I think he'll continue to improve with more NHL experience. And its always nice to have a right hand shot at the point. Especially for a team like the Wings that has 98% lefties.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Lol so you did end up losing it huh lefty?

Not anymore 

Ya a little, but not as much as you guys were expecting (hoping for.)

I vented in that one post and I am good. I do understand that Holland had a tough choice, but I just believe he could've kept Mrazek protected and traded him, he has to have more value than Howard in trade, right? Oh well, this will all be for nothing if VGK takes Sheahan or XO!

I just wonder how Mrzek's "attitude" will be if he doesn't get picked when he comes to the rink....

[amato 3,210]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ya a little, but not as much as you guys were expecting (hoping for.)

I vented in that one post and I am good. I do understand that Holland had a tough choice, but I just believe he could've kept Mrazek protected and traded him, he has to have more value than Howard in trade, right? Oh well, this will all be for nothing if VGK takes Sheahan or XO!

I just wonder how Mrzek's "attitude" will be if he doesn't get picked when he comes to the rink....

 

I think the hope is probably it being a wake up call for him to start working his butt off.. if the attitude/work ethic rumors are legit anyway. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ya a little, but not as much as you guys were expecting (hoping for.)

I vented in that one post and I am good. I do understand that Holland had a tough choice, but I just believe he could've kept Mrazek protected and traded him, he has to have more value than Howard in trade, right? Oh well, this will all be for nothing if VGK takes Sheahan or XO!

I just wonder how Mrzek's "attitude" will be if he doesn't get picked when he comes to the rink....

 

Quote

Mrazek was shopped before the expansion draft protection lists were solidified and there wasn’t serious interest. A big reason for that was because teams would have had to protect him in the expansion draft and at $4 million, it wasn’t enough of an upgrade over their current goalies to pull the trigger. Calgary, a team that showed some interest, opted for Mike Smith as the goalie they wanted in the short term to try and win games while also working with the young, talented goalies coming in the Flames organization.

A source from another team that needs a goalie said they were less worried about Mrazek’s work ethic and more worried about his ability to consistently stop pucks. He doesn’t have prototypical NHL goalie size and relies on his strong athleticism to make saves, something that hasn’t happened consistently enough lately.

“He’s got tremendous skill. Great skill,” said one goalie coach. “He’s tremendously athletic but he makes simple saves very hard because he ends up in bad places.”

So a trade wasn’t an option, and the Red Wings had to make the call on what kind of message it would send internally if Mrazek was protected and what life might look like in the short term if Howard was unprotected and actually selected. We know now what that decision was.

According to an executive on another team, Vegas is telling teams they’re not going to overload in goal unless they have a pretty good idea they’re able to move the player in a trade after the expansion draft.

“They could get jammed up,” said the executive. “They’re going to take goalies if they have a deal for one.”

 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I wonder if Holland has his eyes on any UFA goalies or if he just has a lot of confidence in his young goalies down the pipeline...

[Echolalia 2,961]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

***Snippet snippet**

Seems like a very rational reason why he wasn't picked up in a trade and why he's being exposed.  Although rational isn't LGWs forte.

[chaps80 1,591]

So Mrazek getting snagged and turning it around and living up to his potential elsewhere is a big risk that could cost jobs huh? I can live with that.


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[e_prime 1,936]

22 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

So Mrazek getting snagged and turning it around and living up to his potential elsewhere is a big risk that could cost jobs huh? I can live with that.


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Meaning Holland moves upstairs instead of getting an extension as GM? 

Yeah, I could see that being an issue for sure. 

[chaps80 1,591]

Meaning Holland moves upstairs instead of getting an extension as GM? 
Yeah, I could see that being an issue for sure. 

So something that should have happened years ago finally happens. Sweet. At least the control of the roster is out of his hands. Let him be a figure head like Jimmy D. It's too bad Jimmy D doesn't have more input, things would probably be better. Rebuild Kenny? Nah Jimmy, were playoff bound!


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[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

The more I think about it the more I hate exposing Mrazek. The only scenario that I can envision Vegas not taking Mrazek is if there are side deals in place that force Vegas to take guys like Fleury for cap relief. Other than that, I'm really struggling to see how Mrazek isn't the top or at minimum top 3 options in goal. Also, remember that there's nothing in place for them to take like 7 goalies and then try to flip them for something else with other teams. Not saying they'll do that but it's not far fetched to see them take 4 or 5 goalies.