joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 Vegas has said they would be stocking up on defensemen mostly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Never_Retire_Steve said: The more I think about it the more I hate exposing Mrazek. The only scenario that I can envision Vegas not taking Mrazek is if there are side deals in place that force Vegas to take guys like Fleury for cap relief. Other than that, I'm really struggling to see how Mrazek isn't the top or at minimum top 3 options in goal. Also, remember that there's nothing in place for them to take like 7 goalies and then try to flip them for something else with other teams. Not saying they'll do that but it's not far fetched to see them take 4 or 5 goalies. Hes coming off a season where he was one of the worst starters in the entire league. Whats the struggle? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Hes coming off a season where he was one of the worst starters in the entire league. Whats the struggle? It's concerning to me that people are honestly this blind about Petr Mrazek. He's seriously inconsistent and proven to be nothing more than an average goalie (so far). Which is okay because he's still young. I'm not saying he won't be a great goalie someday but jesus christ this guy is treated like he's DEFINITELY going to be the next Carey Price. Holland didn't protect Mrazek to "send him a message"? I'm starting to wonder if he didn't protect Mrazek to send us fans a message. "He's not that good ya'll, chill da f*** out" Edited June 21, 2017 by kickazz 2 sjr2012 and ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjr2012 439 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, kickazz said: It's concerning to me that people are honestly this blind about Petr Mrazek. He's seriously inconsistent and proven to be nothing more than an average goalie (so far). Which is okay because he's still young. I'm not saying he won't be a great goalie someday but jesus christ this guy is treated like he's DEFINITELY going to be the next Carey Price. Holland didn't protect Mrazek to "send a message"? I'm starting to wonder if he didn't protect Mrazek to send us fans a message. "He's not that good ya'll, chill da f*** out" true and if jimmy didnt get hurt he would be undisputed number 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) The more insider takes I read, the more it seems the organization is simply done with Mrazek. Elliotte Friedman: What to make of Detroit’s decision to leave Petr Mrazek unprotected? That last season was a rough one between the player and the organization. Their contract negotiation in the summer of 2016 was tense, and it carried over. There was a ton of mutual frustration last season. It’s also clear that Jared Coreau, who won the Calder Cup with AHL Grand Rapids, passed Mrazek in the organizational structure. One year ago, Mrazek was the future star and Jimmy Howard was on the outs. Things change fast in the NHL. The big question becomes, what happens if the Golden Knights don’t take Mrazek? Friedman is one of the most credible, respected names in professional hockey rumormongering; if he's saying it's clear that Coreau has passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart, we can be pretty sure that Coreau has, in fact, passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart. Edited June 21, 2017 by Dabura 2 e_prime and ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 On 6/18/2017 at 8:45 PM, chaps80 said: I stopped reading anything by HSJ the second I read she thought Coreau should be protected. They might not be happy with Mrazek because of his attitude and his failure to live up to what he's shown he's capable of, but that's not an uncommon situation with young players with high ceilings in the NHL. Mrazek hasn't faced many struggles in his career. Dominated the AHL and stole the starting job in Detroit when they didn't even need him to at that point. Since he's regressed, many have written him off. Hasn't been that long, especially for a goalie. He's lost confidence, but that doesn't mean he won't rebound. One more year on his contract then RFA. Not like he was locked up to a Jimmy deal. And the team is going nowhere. I would let him have that last season. Out of Holland's hands until Vegas picks now though. Like her or not, HSJ is much closer to things than we are and, unofficially, gets paid to say what the organization wants her to say. So, the fact that the past six months or so have seen her become decidedly bearish on Mrazek and decidedly bullish on Coreau is not insignificant. More specfically, it suggests Mrazek has been on the outs for at least the past six months, probably longer. ("Their contract negotiation in the summer of 2016 was tense, and it carried over. There was a ton of mutual frustration last season." - Friedman.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 Vegas has said they would be stocking up on defensemen mostlyBut they said the same about goalies before too.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 It's concerning to me that people are honestly this blind about Petr Mrazek. He's seriously inconsistent and proven to be nothing more than an average goalie (so far). Which is okay because he's still young. I'm not saying he won't be a great goalie someday but jesus christ this guy is treated like he's DEFINITELY going to be the next Carey Price. Holland didn't protect Mrazek to "send him a message"? I'm starting to wonder if he didn't protect Mrazek to send us fans a message. "He's not that good ya'll, chill da f*** out"Not the next Price, but at least Price was given his shot through down times and was held onto and told he was their future top guy when they traded Halak instead of him, when Halak was the better goalie at the time. It's about keeping your assets with high potential instead of older vets or others that have topped out. Oh well, hopefully Mrazek is still a Wing later today. If not, I hope Coreau or Matej can handle the work or Holland picks up an insurance goalie, cause Howard will have another injury or falter at some point. It's one of those inevitable things.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 Rumors saying MAF will be claimed from Pens with pick, Garrison from Bolts, Theodore + pick to protect Vatanen/Manson, Haula for not taking Dumba/Scandella. Maybe more to come. I expected them to have solid D squad, but looks like they´ve found Ds as a most valuable negotation chip to obtain some prospects/drafts. It´s obvious, backup goalie market is not that tight. Hence - with MAF in their hand - sounds to me we should expect maybe XO claimed by Vegas with little bit higher probability. What will be fail for Holland, loosing another promising guy with non-wanted Mrazek staying. Why not send them 3rd rounder them for taking Sheahan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Juklitz said: Rumors saying MAF will be claimed from Pens with pick, Garrison from Bolts, Theodore + pick to protect Vatanen/Manson, Haula for not taking Dumba/Scandella. Maybe more to come. I expected them to have solid D squad, but looks like they´ve found Ds as a most valuable negotation chip to obtain some prospects/drafts. It´s obvious, backup goalie market is not that tight. Hence - with MAF in their hand - sounds to me we should expect maybe XO claimed by Vegas with little bit higher probability. What will be fail for Holland, loosing another promising guy with non-wanted Mrazek staying. Why not send them 3rd rounder them for taking Sheahan? Because Sheahan had trade interest at the deadline.. that comes to mind. Teams might not have been offering much.. but if other GMs are calling about trading for a player, you don't pay another team to take him. If we really wanted to be done with Sheahan, we could get at least a third for him.. maybe more. They might take him unprovoked anyway. Especially if one of those teams calls Vegas and says they'll give a pick for Sheahan. Couple that with probably not getting calls about any other wings (my speculation), and I could see Sheahan being the odd man out. Edited June 21, 2017 by amato Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 Hope you´re right, better than XO and I still believe Mraz could get some value sooner or later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 34 minutes ago, Juklitz said: Rumors saying MAF will be claimed from Pens with pick, Garrison from Bolts, Theodore + pick to protect Vatanen/Manson, Haula for not taking Dumba/Scandella. Maybe more to come. I expected them to have solid D squad, but looks like they´ve found Ds as a most valuable negotation chip to obtain some prospects/drafts. It´s obvious, backup goalie market is not that tight. Hence - with MAF in their hand - sounds to me we should expect maybe XO claimed by Vegas with little bit higher probability. What will be fail for Holland, loosing another promising guy with non-wanted Mrazek staying. Why not send them 3rd rounder them for taking Sheahan? There's no way this can be true... Theodore is arguably better than Vatanen now, is 5 years younger, and projects to be MUCH better in the next couple years. Theodore has the potential to become Elite. Losing Ouellet would be best case scenario in my opinion. I don't see him ever developing into anything more than a reliable 4/5 defenseman, and we have several of those in the system. It would give Sproul more of an opportunity, and who knows, maybe it would give Hicketts an opportunity at some point this season. In saying that, I wouldn't mind if they took Sheahan either, but I wouldn't give up a draft pick, unless I knew they were taking Mrazek... 1 amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 The more insider takes I read, the more it seems the organization is simply done with Mrazek.Elliotte Friedman: What to make of Detroit’s decision to leave Petr Mrazek unprotected? That last season was a rough one between the player and the organization. Their contract negotiation in the summer of 2016 was tense, and it carried over. There was a ton of mutual frustration last season. It’s also clear that Jared Coreau, who won the Calder Cup with AHL Grand Rapids, passed Mrazek in the organizational structure. One year ago, Mrazek was the future star and Jimmy Howard was on the outs. Things change fast in the NHL. The big question becomes, what happens if the Golden Knights don’t take Mrazek? Friedman is one of the most credible, respected names in professional hockey rumormongering; if he's saying it's clear that Coreau has passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart, we can be pretty sure that Coreau has, in fact, passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart.Some of these analysts have to be huffing gas. Coreau has passed him on the depth chart? Based on what? Having a 3.46 GAA and .887 SV% in 14 games with Detroit last season, allowing 41 goals? Come on...I could see if he was putting up pre-last season Mrazek numbers ( never lower than 2.36 GAA), but he wasn't. He was even questionable in the AHL playoffs. So contract negotiations were "tense", and mutual frustrations carried over. Ok? Not the first contract Holland has had to negotiate that was tense. Should all players just bend over in front of him? And of course there were frustrations. Holland was looking at making the playoffs and it obv wasn't happening. And can anyone honestly say they think Mrazek stunk it up cause he just didn't care or was so pissed off that it hurt his game? That's always great for a career. Maybe he was pissed off at Blashill for giving Coreau the starts that should have been his, especially when Coreau was no better. That makes sense. But to be pissed off about a contract negotiation and letting it carry over that long? Nah.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Dabura said: The more insider takes I read, the more it seems the organization is simply done with Mrazek. Elliotte Friedman: What to make of Detroit’s decision to leave Petr Mrazek unprotected? That last season was a rough one between the player and the organization. Their contract negotiation in the summer of 2016 was tense, and it carried over. There was a ton of mutual frustration last season. It’s also clear that Jared Coreau, who won the Calder Cup with AHL Grand Rapids, passed Mrazek in the organizational structure. One year ago, Mrazek was the future star and Jimmy Howard was on the outs. Things change fast in the NHL. The big question becomes, what happens if the Golden Knights don’t take Mrazek? Friedman is one of the most credible, respected names in professional hockey rumormongering; if he's saying it's clear that Coreau has passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart, we can be pretty sure that Coreau has, in fact, passed Mrazek on the organizational depth chart. If it's true that management have put Coreau ahead of Mrazek, that scares the s*** out of me... What makes them believe Coreau is better than Mrazek? Because he's bigger? He doesn't use that 6'6", 220lb. frame to his advantage at all. Because he won the Calder Cup? So did Mrazek, the difference being Coreau did it this year at 25, and Mrazek did it 4 years ago at 21. Mrazek has also had better numbers than Coreau every step of the way. Even as badly as Mrazek struggled this past season, his numbers were still better than Coreau's. Mrazek is a thousand times better than Coreau and any other goaltender in the pipeline. It's not even close. The fact that so many are ready to give up on a goaltender as young and talented as Mrazek is mind blowing. I don't give a s*** about the bad attitude. If he has such a poor attitude, trade him, don't give him away for free... Protecting Howard over Mrazek was the wrong decision. I don't care if Howard has been better this past season, Mrazek is the better goaltender for this team going forward. He's 8 years younger and on a better contract (still RFA). There's no question in my mind that he will rebound from last season, it's just a matter of where he will be when he does it. BUT, let's just say he doesn't rebound and he puts up similar numbers again this season. Then don't offer him a new contract next summer, simple as that. Protecting Howard served no purpose. There's no way Vegas would have taken him, unless there was some sort of incentive attached to it. Anyway, I think it's crazy that Holland actually left Mrazek unprotected, all we can hope for at this point is that maybe there's some sort of deal under the table to keep Mrazek while "sending him a message"... 2 chaps80 and marcaractac reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Juklitz said: Rumors saying MAF will be claimed from Pens with pick, Garrison from Bolts, Theodore + pick to protect Vatanen/Manson, Haula for not taking Dumba/Scandella. Maybe more to come. 28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: There's no way this can be true... Theodore is arguably better than Vatanen now, is 5 years younger, and projects to be MUCH better in the next couple years. Theodore has the potential to become Elite. I just seen the tweet from Bob McKenzie, so I guess it could happen... Man, if Theodore actually is available, Holland needs to be all over that. Call McPhee with a very enticing package and get us one Shea Theodore, please Kenny... Not sure what it would take but I would include one of Athanasiou or Svechnikov, plus another piece or two... Edited June 21, 2017 by krsmith17 1 amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 If it's true that management have put Coreau ahead of Mrazek, that scares the s*** out of me... What makes them believe Coreau is better than Mrazek? Because he's bigger? He doesn't use that 6'6", 220lb. frame to his advantage at all. Because he won the Calder Cup? So did Mrazek, the difference being Coreau did it this year at 25, and Mrazek did it 4 years ago at 21. Mrazek has also had better numbers than Coreau every step of the way. Even as badly as Mrazek struggled this past season, his numbers were still better than Coreau's. Mrazek is a thousand times better than Coreau and any other goaltender in the pipeline. It's not even close. The fact that so many are ready to give up on a goaltender as young and talented as Mrazek is mind blowing. I don't give a s*** about the bad attitude. If he has such a poor attitude, trade him, don't give him away for free... Protecting Howard over Mrazek was the wrong decision. I don't care if Howard has been better this past season, Mrazek is the better goaltender for this team going forward. He's 8 years younger and on a better contract (still RFA). There's no question in my mind that he will rebound from last season, it's just a matter of where he will be when he does it. BUT, let's just say he doesn't rebound and he puts up similar numbers again this season. Then don't offer him a new contract next summer, simple as that. Protecting Howard served no purpose. There's no way Vegas would have taken him, unless there was some sort of incentive attached to it. Anyway, I think it's crazy that Holland actually left Mrazek unprotected, all we can hope for at this point is that maybe there's some sort of deal under the table to keep Mrazek while "sending him a message"... Well said. If there's no side deal to keep him, this has to be one of the dumbest, most pointless moves in a long time. If he gets the "message" AND stays and does something positive with it, all will be well. If he's dropped for nothing when no other Wings goalies would even be considered, and with ONE year on his deal and RFA status, it's a ******* train wreck. Kinda like the team itself I suppose. The kid had one bad season (Ya ya, he supposedly sucked after his birthday year before, yet still pulled off a 2.36 GAA for the season) and had a bad attitude. Someone, please take him, we can't handle this s***!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) No way Vegas will let him go, unless we´re able to setup some real pack. 36 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Not sure what it would take but I would include one of Athanasiou or Svechnikov, plus another piece or two... Edited June 21, 2017 by Juklitz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: I just seen the tweet from Bob McKenzie, so I guess it could happen... Man, if Theodore actually is available, Holland needs to be all over that. Call McPhee with a very enticing package and get us one Shea Theodore, please Kenny... Not sure what it would take but I would include one of Athanasiou or Svechnikov, plus another piece or two... Probably something like svech/AA + 2018 1st gets it done.. or maybe svech/AA + 2018 2nd + one of our defensive prospects To clarify, just in case... by svech/AA I mean one of them, definitely not both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Juklitz said: No way Vegas will let him go, unless we´re able to setup some real pack. Which is why I said we'd have to put together a quality package. 2 minutes ago, amato said: Probably something like svech/AA + 2018 1st gets it done.. or maybe svech/AA + 2018 2nd + one of our defensive prospects To clarify, just in case... by svech/AA I mean one of them, definitely not both. Yeah, I'd do Athanasiou / Svechnikov, Hronek / Saarijarvi and our 2018 2nd round pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Which is why I said we'd have to put together a quality package. Yeah, I'd do Athanasiou / Svechnikov, Hronek / Saarijarvi and our 2018 2nd round pick. I think this would at least get the conversation going and probably be enough. But if I'm Vegas, I probably think very hard about keeping Theodore as my potential future franchise defenseman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Juklitz 85 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, amato said: But if I'm Vegas, I probably think very hard about You´re right, it´s not bad, but not enough for real top guy. Enough to get Sanheim (without pick) from Phila, but not Theodore from Vegas who don´t have backlog yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, amato said: I think this would at least get the conversation going and probably be enough. But if I'm Vegas, I probably think very hard about keeping Theodore as my potential future franchise defenseman. For sure. I still find it very hard to believe that Murray is even considering giving up Theodore to keep Vatanen though... If he does, he's an idiot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: For sure. I still find it very hard to believe that Murray is even considering giving up Theodore to keep Vatanen though... If he does, he's an idiot. The ducks are very much in win now mode so who knows. But Lebrun was apparently on a tsn radio station refuting Theodore going to Vegas and saying if that really is Vegas' price, they could end up just letting them take Vatanen instead or that they could be giving up their first next year instead of Theodore. I agree that either of those seem more likely from Anaheim's perspective.. we'll see tonight I suppose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, amato said: The ducks are very much in win now mode so who knows. But Lebrun was apparently on a tsn radio station refuting Theodore going to Vegas and saying if that really is Vegas' price, they could end up just letting them take Vatanen instead or that they could be giving up their first next year instead of Theodore. I agree that either of those seem more likely from Anaheim's perspective.. we'll see tonight I suppose. Even if the Ducks are in "win now" mode, it still makes zero sense. In 2017-18 Shea Theodore will be as good or better than Sami Vatanen, and is 5 years younger, with the potential to become a top 10 defenseman in the league. There's not one part of this rumor that makes sense. Even a first to keep Vatanen is a steep price to pay, but certainly more plausible than Theodore... 2 amato and derblaueClaus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted June 21, 2017 4 hours ago, chaps80 said: But they said the same about goalies before too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That was a Vegas scout who said that a while back. He only stated the team was "considering" that strategy. Goalie market seems to be drying up fast now. 1 chaps80 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
