Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

[krsmith17 7,191]

53 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yes it is a fact. As of right now nothing was given to Vegas to take Nosek. Letting Holland know he wanted to take Nosek - which you don't even know if he did or not - is still not a deal of any kind even if it happened. There has to be an exchange of goods.

"Krsmith, what are you going to have for lunch?"
KR: "I'm gonna have the tuna sandwich"

is no different than, and no more of a deal than:

"McPhee, what player you gonna take?"
McPhee: "I'm gonna take Nosek"

To continue, why would McPhee give Holland a "gentlemans agreement"/pass when he's pulling 1st and 2nd rounders out of other teams to avoid certain players? As of right now, you cannot reasonably say their was any deal in place for McPhee to take Nosek. Holland even explicitly stated he would not make that deal, and by all accounts he didn't. 

I agree with you on all points. Sheahan and Mrazek are both young, but both are coming off incredibly low years. McPhee was probably avoiding downward trending players. 

An agreement / understanding does not need an "exchange of goods". There are trades all the time involving "future considerations". What makes you so sure that something similar didn't go down in this situation?

McPhee did tell Holland that he was taking Nosek, whether it was before or after the protection lists. All GM's knew who they were losing prior to the announcements yesterday / last night. Like I said from the beginning though, it's all speculation, and no one knows for sure exactly what went down. What I do know, is that for so many people to be mind blown over both Mrazek being exposed and passed over, there has to be more to it than what we know now... That's all I have to say on the matter though. Just happy Mrazek is still a Red Wing.

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

An agreement / understanding does not need an "exchange of goods". There are trades all the time involving "future considerations". What makes you so sure that something similar didn't go down in this situation?

McPhee did tell Holland that he was taking Nosek, whether it was before or after the protection lists. All GM's knew who they were losing prior to the announcements yesterday / last night. Like I said from the beginning though, it's all speculation, and no one knows for sure exactly what went down. What I do know, is that for so many people to be mind blown over both Mrazek being exposed and passed over, there has to be more to it than what we know now... That's all I have to say on the matter though. Just happy Mrazek is still a Red Wing.

But are his teammates and coaches? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

12 minutes ago, kickazz said:

But are his teammates and coaches? 

Good question. None of us know the answer to this. One thing is for sure though, he needs to get his head on straight unless he wants all that potential to be for not...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

An agreement / understanding does not need an "exchange of goods". There are trades all the time involving "future considerations". What makes you so sure that something similar didn't go down in this situation?

McPhee did tell Holland that he was taking Nosek, whether it was before or after the protection lists. All GM's knew who they were losing prior to the announcements yesterday / last night. Like I said from the beginning though, it's all speculation, and no one knows for sure exactly what went down. What I do know, is that for so many people to be mind blown over both Mrazek being exposed and passed over, there has to be more to it than what we know now... That's all I have to say on the matter though. Just happy Mrazek is still a Red Wing.

Because that's not being reported anywhere by anyone. And still, future considerations are reported in trades, that wasn't reported last night.  And again, McPhee was pulling high picks for these types of deals, not future considerations.

Telling someone who you're taking is not a "deal" lol it's a statement. I don't know how else to reiterate that.

"Mrazek is still super valuable, Holland would never expose him" Holland exposes him. "Mrazek is still super valuable, no way he doesn't get claimed" Mrazek goes unclaimed. "Mrazek is still super valuable, there must have been in a deal in place" There wasn't. <----- you are here lol

If you need to go making up conspiracy theories to explain your disbelief that Mrazek wasn't the valuable player you thought he was, I guess I can't help you.

[marcaractac 3,963]

11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Good question. None of us know the answer to this. One thing is for sure though, he needs to get his head on straight unless he wants all that potential to be for not...

Holland needs to learn from Yzerman's Drouin situation. How to handle bad attitudes 101. Obviously, Mrazek has to put the work in to fix things as well, but Holland could have certainly (and still can) handle it far better.  Keep s*** internal. Continue to try and work with him to increase his value to the team, whether that be by becoming a bonafide #1 again or as a trade asset. None of this leaking s*** to moronic beat writers in a s***ty attempt to get everyone on the Coreau train. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because that's not being reported anywhere by anyone. And still, future considerations are reported in trades, that wasn't reported last night.  And again, McPhee was pulling high picks for these types of deals, not future considerations.

Telling someone who you're taking is not a "deal" lol it's a statement. I don't know how else to reiterate that.

"Mrazek is still super valuable, Holland would never expose him" Holland exposes him. "Mrazek is still super valuable, no way he doesn't get claimed" Mrazek goes unclaimed. "Mrazek is still super valuable, there must have been in a deal in place" There wasn't. <----- you are here lol

If you need to go making up conspiracy theories to explain your disbelief that Mrazek wasn't the valuable player you thought he was, I guess I can't help you.

Mrazek was never a shoe-in to get claimed due to the other goalies they had to choose from. Yes, his value is at an all-time low. But he does still have value. Pre-expansion draft no GM wanted to have to use their goalie protection on a risk over the guy they already had. During the draft, Vegas was always gonna take Flower. With Mrazek's current low value, Nosek's success in the Calder Cup playoffs was of more value to them. If McPhee told Holland he wanted Mrazek, for all we know, he may have offered a pick to protect him. But McPhee wanted Nosek, so no big deal. When you look at the complete list of guys McPhee drafted, there isn't really any risk involved. Mrazek has value, but that value also comes with risk. Nosek didn't. 

I'm not gonna sit here and say Mrazek's currently "super valuable", but there is still loads of potential there, and it would have been dog s*** to lose it for nothing. I just hope Mrazek makes a lot of folks eat crow because the Wings would be better off for it. 

Edit: If I'm Holland, I'm calling in favors with the Dominator to talk to him. The guy is Mrazek's idol. If anyone can get through his attitude, it's him. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by marcaractac

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Holland needs to learn from Yzerman's Drouin situation. How to handle bad attitudes 101. Obviously, Mrazek has to put the work in to fix things as well, but Holland could have certainly (and still can) handle it far better.  Keep s*** internal. Continue to try and work with him to increase his value to the team, whether that be by becoming a bonafide #1 again or as a trade asset. None of this leaking s*** to moronic beat writers in a s***ty attempt to get everyone on the Coreau train. 

Yzerman didn't handle anything. He just didn't do anything at all. Drouin did all the stupidity and made himself look like an idiot when his agent released the statement and he refused to play in the minor league. All Yzerman had to do was say he's going to do whats best for Tampa. 

Holland HAS kept s*** internal. We really don't know anything about the specifics of Mrazek, just some beat writers and reporters claiming Mrazek has attitude problems because he left practice early and because "he said she said". 

Drouin is a 1st round pick that did very well last season and had A LOT of value. Mrazek is not a first round pick, he's been inconsistent, did terrible last season and has no value at the moment.

Perspective of the situation man. 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by kickazz

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Yzerman didn't handle anything. He just didn't do anything at all. Drouin did all the stupidity and made himself look like an idiot when his agent released the statement. All Yzerman had to do was say he's going to do whats best for Tampa. 

Holland HAS kept s*** internal. We really don't know anything about the specifics of Mrazek, just some beat writers and reporters claiming Mrazek has attitude problems because he left practice early and because "he said she said". 

Drouin is a 1st round pick that did very well last season and had A LOT of value. Mrazek is not a first round pick, he's been inconsistent, did terrible last season and has no value at the moment.

 

 

Sometimes "doing nothing" is the best course of action. He could have had the knee jerk reaction and traded him. Instead, he held out, let Drouin redeem himself. Now he has a return for him he'd have never gotten at the time. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because that's not being reported anywhere by anyone. And still, future considerations are reported in trades, that wasn't reported last night.  And again, McPhee was pulling high picks for these types of deals, not future considerations.

Telling someone who you're taking is not a "deal" lol it's a statement. I don't know how else to reiterate that.

"Mrazek is still super valuable, Holland would never expose him" Holland exposes him. "Mrazek is still super valuable, no way he doesn't get claimed" Mrazek goes unclaimed. "Mrazek is still super valuable, there must have been in a deal in place" There wasn't. <----- you are here lol

If you need to go making up conspiracy theories to explain your disbelief that Mrazek wasn't the valuable player you thought he was, I guess I can't help you.

I've said several times that Mrazek's stock dropped after this past season. So no, I'm not trying to justify anything with "conspiracy theories". If you truly believe that there was nothing done under the table, and no one wants Mrazek, cool, I don't. I'm not here trying to convince you of anything.

[kliq 3,755]

7 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Edit: If I'm Holland, I'm calling in favors with the Dominator to talk to him. The guy is Mrazek's idol. If anyone can get through his attitude, it's him. 

This would be smart, really good idea. Nobody is going to act like a diva towards their idol (at least you would hope lol).

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Mrazek was never a shoe-in to get claimed due to the other goalies they had to choose from. Yes, his value is at an all-time low. But he does still have value. Pre-expansion draft no GM wanted to have to use their goalie protection on a risk over the guy they already had. During the draft, Vegas was always gonna take Flower. With Mrazek's current low value, Nosek's success in the Calder Cup playoffs was of more value to them. If McPhee told Holland he wanted Mrazek, for all we know, he may have offered a pick to protect him. But McPhee wanted Nosek, so no big deal. When you look at the complete list of guys McPhee drafted, there isn't really any risk involved. Mrazek has value, but that value also comes with risk. Nosek didn't. 

I'm not gonna sit here and say Mrazek's currently "super valuable", but there is still loads of potential there, and it would have been dog s*** to lose it for nothing. I just hope Mrazek makes a lot of folks eat crow because the Wings would be better off for it. 

Edit: If I'm Holland, I'm calling in favors with the Dominator to talk to him. The guy is Mrazek's idol. If anyone can get through his attitude, it's him. 

I'm not saying Mrazek is valueless, and yes there's potential there still. I'm glad he'll still be around, and I hope he has a huge bounce back season.

But McPhee said explicitly he would take goalies if he knew could flip them, and by the admission of this board Mrazek was our highest value exposure. Yet, Mrazek wasn't protected by Holland in a deal, and McPhee still didn't take him. There is simply zero trade market for Mrazek right now because his value is extremely low. He'll be here come fall because of that, and I hope he gets his head on straight and he increases his value at that time. He can't sink much further at this point. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, kliq said:

This would be smart, really good idea. Nobody is going to act like a diva towards their idol (at least you would hope lol).

Really just popped into my head as I typed out that post, but yeah. Seems to be the obvious next step that I hope someone in Wings management has thought of. The kid has all the tools to be a top goalie in the league. He just needs to get his head in the right place. 

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not saying Mrazek is valueless, and yes there's potential there still. I'm glad he'll still be around, and I hope he has a huge bounce back season.

But McPhee said explicitly he would take goalies if he knew could flip them, and by the admission of this board Mrazek was our highest value exposure. Yet, Mrazek wasn't protected by Holland in a deal, and McPhee still didn't take him. There is simply zero trade market for Mrazek right now because his value is extremely low. He'll be here come fall because of that, and I hope he gets his head on straight and he increases his value at that time. He can't sink much further at this point. 

To be fair, the trade market for goalies in general is pretty week. It's why McPhee elected to load up on defense and centers instead. 

But agreed, hope he can turn it around. I'm ******* terrified of the idea that Coreau is the guy management has faith in. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I've said several times that Mrazek's stock dropped after this past season. So no, I'm not trying to justify anything with "conspiracy theories". If you truly believe that there was nothing done under the table, and no one wants Mrazek, cool, I don't. I'm not here trying to convince you of anything.

Yet you were moping around the board the last few days about what an idiot Holland is for exposing Mrazek, and now here we are

[e_prime 1,936]

Those two things are not necessarily independent from one another.

...just because he had a subpar season last year doesn't mean you think he should be exposed and possibly given away.

Edited June 22, 2017 by e_prime

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Really just popped into my head as I typed out that post, but yeah. Seems to be the obvious next step that I hope someone in Wings management has thought of. The kid has all the tools to be a top goalie in the league. He just needs to get his head in the right place. 

To be fair, the trade market for goalies in general is pretty week. It's why McPhee elected to load up on defense and centers instead. 

But agreed, hope he can turn it around. I'm ******* terrified of the idea that Coreau is the guy management has faith in. 

And to think yall almost had me convinced that Holland made the biggest mistake of his career exposing Mrazek  

1 minute ago, e_prime said:

Those two things are not necessarily independent from one another.

...just because he had a subpar season last year doesn't mean you think he should be exposed and possibly given away.

Subpar is a bit generous

[e_prime 1,936]

...s***ty gets edited.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yet you were moping around the board the last few days about what an idiot Holland is for exposing Mrazek, and now here we are

And nothing has changed on that front... Like I've said all along, Holland IS an idiot for exposing Mrazek, UNLESS there was something we were unaware of. And in my opinion, there is more to it. You don't think so? Cool...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

And nothing has changed on that front... Like I've said all along, Holland IS an idiot for exposing Mrazek, UNLESS there was something we were unaware of. And in my opinion, there is more to it. You don't think so? Cool...

Because there's just no way there couldn't have been right? 

I think Kenny made a deal with the Russians to hack the expansion

Edited June 22, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because there's just no way there couldn't have been right? 

Like I said earlier, Mrazek being left unprotected by Holland and passed over by McPhee were HUGE shocks to the hockey world. So yes, I believe something went down between Holland and McPhee prior to the selection process and possibly even the protection list. I'm not asking you to share the same belief. We're left in the dark, we have no inside information, it's just speculation, so why bother continue the conversation?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said earlier, Mrazek being left unprotected by Holland and passed over by McPhee were HUGE shocks to the hockey world. So yes, I believe something went down between Holland and McPhee prior to the selection process and possibly even the protection list. I'm not asking you to share the same belief. We're left in the dark, we have no inside information, it's just speculation, so why bother continue the conversation?

It was headline news yes, HUGE shock to the hockey world? No. It was a huge shock to Mrazek fans. 29 other GMs and Vegas didn't care at all that Mrazek was exposed. Some people around here actually wanted him to be selected. I wasn't one of those people. You're coming up with reasons to justify the fact that he wasn't claimed after the fact. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that a deal went down to protect Mrazek other than what's in your own head.

[kickazz 5,459]

53 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Sometimes "doing nothing" is the best course of action. He could have had the knee jerk reaction and traded him. Instead, he held out, let Drouin redeem himself. Now he has a return for him he'd have never gotten at the time. 

What makes you think Holland hasn't held out for Mrazek? Mrazek has been with the team for 3 years... Sorry bro but you're falling into the trap of giving Yzerman TOO much credit just cuz it's Ken Holland. Yzerman did nothing special in the situation, he's no better or worse than Holland. It's just happens to be the Drouin (and his agent) are worse people than Mrazek. But also Drouin >>>>>>>>>> Mrazek in terms of value and as a player. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not saying Mrazek is valueless, and yes there's potential there still. I'm glad he'll still be around, and I hope he has a huge bounce back season.

But McPhee said explicitly he would take goalies if he knew could flip them, and by the admission of this board Mrazek was our highest value exposure. Yet, Mrazek wasn't protected by Holland in a deal, and McPhee still didn't take him. There is simply zero trade market for Mrazek right now because his value is extremely low. He'll be here come fall because of that, and I hope he gets his head on straight and he increases his value at that time. He can't sink much further at this point. 

Actually he said he would only take an extra goalie if he had a deal in place. And there were a lot of other goalies who weren't selected either. I don't think it says as much about Mrazek's value as you think it does.

17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

And nothing has changed on that front... Like I've said all along, Holland IS an idiot for exposing Mrazek, UNLESS there was something we were unaware of. And in my opinion, there is more to it. You don't think so? Cool...

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said earlier, Mrazek being left unprotected by Holland and passed over by McPhee were HUGE shocks to the hockey world. So yes, I believe something went down between Holland and McPhee prior to the selection process and possibly even the protection list. I'm not asking you to share the same belief. We're left in the dark, we have no inside information, it's just speculation, so why bother continue the conversation?

You are kind of stretching. In this case, the lack of any information is in itself pretty compelling evidence that there was no deal. Add to that Kenny saying he didn't make a deal...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek would take the wind out of the "Holland is an idiot" argument, and may have played into the decision to expose him, but it's not the same as making a deal to protect him.

 

33 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Really just popped into my head as I typed out that post, but yeah. Seems to be the obvious next step that I hope someone in Wings management has thought of. The kid has all the tools to be a top goalie in the league. He just needs to get his head in the right place. ...

But remember, it's still just a rumor that his head even is "in the wrong place".

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Actually he said he would only take an extra goalie if he had a deal in place. And there were a lot of other goalies who weren't selected either. I don't think it says as much about Mrazek's value as you think it does.

You are kind of stretching. In this case, the lack of any information is in itself pretty compelling evidence that there was no deal. Add to that Kenny saying he didn't make a deal...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek would take the wind out of the "Holland is an idiot" argument, and may have played into the decision to expose him, but it's not the same as making a deal to protect him.

 

But remember, it's still just a rumor that his head even is "in the wrong place".

 

Correct. And obviously he couldn't put a deal together... unless he just wanted Nosek THAT BAD, but I doubt it.

[krsmith17 7,191]

20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It was headline news yes, HUGE shock to the hockey world? No. It was a huge shock to Mrazek fans. 29 other GMs and Vegas didn't care at all that Mrazek was exposed. Some people around here actually wanted him to be selected. I wasn't one of those people. You're coming up with reasons to justify the fact that he wasn't claimed after the fact. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that a deal went down to protect Mrazek other than what's in your own head.

Oh you mean my opinion... Why are you so set on trying to change it? Get over it.

7 minutes ago, Buppy said:

You are kind of stretching. In this case, the lack of any information is in itself pretty compelling evidence that there was no deal. Add to that Kenny saying he didn't make a deal...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek would take the wind out of the "Holland is an idiot" argument, and may have played into the decision to expose him, but it's not the same as making a deal to protect him.

I'm not stretching anything, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Maybe Holland wanted Mrazek gone and maybe McPhee seen more upside in a bottom 6 forward over a potential elite goaltender. I doubt it, but who knows...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek is exactly what I'm talking about when I said "something we are unaware of"... So again, if he exposed Mrazek to potentially get rid of him, he's an idiot, despite what ended up happening. But if he exposed him, knowing McPhee wouldn't take him, that negates my "Holland is an idiot" comment... 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Oh you mean my opinion... Why are you so set on trying to change it? Get over it.

I'm not stretching anything, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Maybe Holland wanted Mrazek gone and maybe McPhee seen more upside in a bottom 6 forward over a potential elite goaltender. I doubt it, but who knows...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek is exactly what I'm talking about when I said "something we are unaware of"... So again, if he exposed Mrazek to potentially get rid of him, he's an idiot, despite what ended up happening. But if he exposed him, knowing McPhee wouldn't take him, that negates my "Holland is an idiot" comment... 

Because your whole theory/opinion is entirely baseless. If you can't handle someone criticizing your opinions, don't post them on a message board.