Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

[Buppy 1,720]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Correct. And obviously he couldn't put a deal together... unless he just wanted Nosek THAT BAD, but I doubt it.

But you say that like his goal was just to take Mrazek and flip him. He basically put together an entire hockey team in a couple days, taking a player from/making deals with literally every other team in the league.

More likely that he just knew the goalie market wasn't very strong (it almost never is), so just didn't give much consideration to Mrazek at all. 

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not stretching anything, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Maybe Holland wanted Mrazek gone and maybe McPhee seen more upside in a bottom 6 forward over a potential elite goaltender. I doubt it, but who knows...

Holland knowing beforehand that McPhee wasn't interested in Mrazek is exactly what I'm talking about when I said "something we are unaware of"... 

OK, but when you say things like 'you doubt McPhee really wanted Nosek over Mrazek', it implies that you think Holland did something to influence his decision. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because your whole theory/opinion is entirely baseless. If you can't handle someone criticizing your opinions, don't post them on a message board. 

I have absolutely no issue with someone challenging or criticizing my opinion, I just don't get why you're so set on changing people's opinions. You don't agree? Move on...

3 minutes ago, Buppy said:

OK, but when you say things like 'you doubt McPhee really wanted Nosek over Mrazek', it implies that you think Holland did something to influence his decision. 

I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, Buppy said:

But you say that like his goal was just to take Mrazek and flip him. He basically put together an entire hockey team in a couple days, taking a player from/making deals with literally every other team in the league.

More likely that he just knew the goalie market wasn't very strong (it almost never is), so just didn't give much consideration to Mrazek at all. 

OK, but when you say things like 'you doubt McPhee really wanted Nosek over Mrazek', it implies that you think Holland did something to influence his decision. 

Yeah cause I think there were better goalies available to him. Only way he would've wanted Mrazek was to flip him.

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

I have absolutely no issue with someone challenging or criticizing my opinion, I just don't get why you're so set on changing people's opinions. You don't agree? Move on...

I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

Who said I was trying to change your opinion? All I'm doing is pointy how unsubstantiated it is lol

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Who said I was trying to change your opinion? All I'm doing is pointy how unsubstantiated it is lol

Ok, and I said right from the beginning it was all speculation, my speculation, aka opinion... So again, what's your point? If you want to discuss this further (I have no idea why you would), PM me...

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

40 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It was headline news yes, HUGE shock to the hockey world? No. It was a huge shock to Mrazek fans. 29 other GMs and Vegas didn't care at all that Mrazek was exposed. Some people around here actually wanted him to be selected. I wasn't one of those people. You're coming up with reasons to justify the fact that he wasn't claimed after the fact. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that a deal went down to protect Mrazek other than what's in your own head.

Most articles/ bits of coverage do seem to be pretty surprised that Mrazek was exposed/ not taken

For example, Sportsnet, uses it their first example of a headscratcher move.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-expansion-draft-winners-losers/

Unrelated, but in that article, they have this tweet (I don't know how to copy/paste tweets)

✔@TomGulittiNHL

Foley said VGK had list of picks ready at 4 p.m. PT Tues. before realizing they had 13 forwards (need 14) so switched from a D to a forward

5:26 PM - 21 Jun 2017

Wonder if that was XO switched to Nosek last minute.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Most articles/ bits of coverage do seem to be pretty surprised that Mrazek was exposed/ not taken

For example, Sportsnet, uses it their first example of a headscratcher move.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-expansion-draft-winners-losers/

Sportsnet is one example. There are countless others.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Ok, and I said right from the beginning it was all speculation, my speculation, aka opinion... So again, what's your point? If you want to discuss this further (I have no idea why you would), PM me...

I think your'e desperately making up things in an attempt to justify why Mrazek went unpicked with no deal protection, and I enjoy poking holes in that baseless speculation. Again, this is a discussion board lol. If you don't like your speculations/opinions being criticized, don't post them. I'm not going to run off to your safe-space in the PM box with you. If you wanna discuss, we can do it right here. None of this has gone off topic or gotten out of hand.

9 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Most articles/ bits of coverage do seem to be pretty surprised that Mrazek was exposed/ not taken

For example, Sportsnet, uses it their first example of a headscratcher move.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-expansion-draft-winners-losers/

Unrelated, but in that article, they have this tweet (I don't know how to copy/paste tweets)

✔@TomGulittiNHL

Foley said VGK had list of picks ready at 4 p.m. PT Tues. before realizing they had 13 forwards (need 14) so switched from a D to a forward

5:26 PM - 21 Jun 2017

Wonder if that was XO switched to Nosek last minute.

And now the reactionary media is starting realize... he's just not that good of a goaltender. It was a huge headline, I'm not disputing that.

Edited June 22, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think your'e desperately making up things in an attempt to justify why Mrazek went unpicked with no deal protection, and I enjoy poking holes in that baseless speculation. Again, this is a discussion board lol. If you don't like your speculations/opinions being criticized, don't post them. I'm not going to run off to your safe-space in the PM box with you. If you wanna discuss, we can do it right here. None of this has gone off topic or gotten out of hand.

Yes, please let's continue to beat this dead horse... We have differing opinions. I'm okay with that. For whatever reason you're not... I'm done now.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, please let's continue to beat this dead horse... We have differing opinions. I'm okay with that. For whatever reason you're not... I'm done now.

When did I say I wasnt ok with it lol? If you don't want discuss your opinion ok, bye. I'm happy to discuss mine.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And now the reactionary media is starting realize... he's just not that good of a goaltender. It was a huge headline, I'm not disputing that.

That article was posted 3 hours ago so you can't suggest that they've realized anything since then. There is a lot of people outside the WIngs fanbase that thought he should have been chosen. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

When did I say I wasnt ok with it lol? If you don't want discuss your opinion ok, bye. I'm happy to discuss mine.

Could have sworn that's what I was doing for the past couple pages. Guess you missed it. Oh well...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

That article was posted 3 hours ago so you can't suggest that they've realized anything since then. There is a lot of people outside the WIngs fanbase that thought he should have been chosen. 

Haven't read that specific article, just glanced at it when you posted it.

The days following had all the articles coming out as to why Mrazek was exposed and all the rationalizations. It was a shocker no doubt, but sadly was most of the shock was unfounded. He wasn't even claimed.

Just now, krsmith17 said:

Could have sworn that's what I was doing for the past couple pages. Guess you missed it. Oh well...

And yet, you continue to comment lol shall we start back up again??

[kickazz 5,459]

Ya'll are cray.

We all know what happened. Mrazek was exposed, everyone here thinks he's better than he actually is. He isn't. Maybe someday. 

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah cause I think there were better goalies available to him. Only way he would've wanted Mrazek was to flip him.

Guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that it's not likely that McPhee was engaged in any active attempt to find a market for Mrazek. It wouldn't have been any kind of priority for him. At most he would have asked other GMs if there was anyone exposed that they were interested in trading for. That the few teams who may be looking for a goalie weren't focused on getting one from Vegas doesn't really mean anything. It's not like the exposed goalies were going to disappear post-expansion. I imagine most teams would probably want to have multiple options in order to get the best deal they could, rather than encourage Vegas to corner the market and gain even more power than they already had.

You're projecting somewhat of a "See, Mrazek sucks and no one in the whole league wants him" kind of vibe. Ironically, to even think that Mrazek might figure prominently enough in all the expansion draft happenings to draw any firm conclusions on what the league thinks about him is itself greatly exaggerating his value. He's a good young player, but hardly the only one left exposed. It's a big story for the Wings, but not necessarily for the whole league. 

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

Either you think there was a deal (contrary to some compelling evidence) or you don't. But whatever.

I think you're being a little too simplistic in your thought process. It's not just a matter of "Who's better: Mrazek or Nosek?". There are several factors in play. Vegas already had their short-term starter. For a backup and potential long-term solution, they chose Pickard, which doesn't even mean they think he has the best potential. In some cases, the other options on a team (Schmidt) might have been a factor. Maybe cost was an issue as well. Maybe it's a case of McPhee thinking Nosek + Pickard is better, all things considered, than Mrazek + Grigorenko. Or maybe just with everything else going on, McPhee didn't give it enough consideration and does actually think Nosek is better. It's not like he or his staff is an expert on every player in the league or had time to do a careful analysis of several hundred players, shouldn't be hard to imagine that he made a few mistakes.

No good reason to make the leap to thinking that Holland lied about making a deal, and that the deal is still, for some reason, a secret a day later. There are more logical rationalizations.

[chaps80 1,591]

Good question. None of us know the answer to this. One thing is for sure though, he needs to get his head on straight unless he wants all that potential to be for not...

I truly think he will turn things around if given the proper chance to do so. Last chance to dance. If he's simply Howard's backup or something though, and spends a lot of time on the bench, what can realistically be expected? Can't s*** on him if you don't let him do what he needs to do. "Well, Petr did well in 25 starts he was given, but it's not enough. We're sticking with Howard."


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that it's not likely that McPhee was engaged in any active attempt to find a market for Mrazek. It wouldn't have been any kind of priority for him. At most he would have asked other GMs if there was anyone exposed that they were interested in trading for. That the few teams who may be looking for a goalie weren't focused on getting one from Vegas doesn't really mean anything. It's not like the exposed goalies were going to disappear post-expansion. I imagine most teams would probably want to have multiple options in order to get the best deal they could, rather than encourage Vegas to corner the market and gain even more power than they already had.

You're projecting somewhat of a "See, Mrazek sucks and no one in the whole league wants him" kind of vibe. Ironically, to even think that Mrazek might figure prominently enough in all the expansion draft happenings to draw any firm conclusions on what the league thinks about him is itself greatly exaggerating his value. He's a good young player, but hardly the only one left exposed. It's a big story for the Wings, but not necessarily for the whole league. 

Either you think there was a deal (contrary to some compelling evidence) or you don't. But whatever.

I think you're being a little too simplistic in your thought process. It's not just a matter of "Who's better: Mrazek or Nosek?". There are several factors in play. Vegas already had their short-term starter. For a backup and potential long-term solution, they chose Pickard, which doesn't even mean they think he has the best potential. In some cases, the other options on a team (Schmidt) might have been a factor. Maybe cost was an issue as well. Maybe it's a case of McPhee thinking Nosek + Pickard is better, all things considered, than Mrazek + Grigorenko. Or maybe just with everything else going on, McPhee didn't give it enough consideration and does actually think Nosek is better. It's not like he or his staff is an expert on every player in the league or had time to do a careful analysis of several hundred players, shouldn't be hard to imagine that he made a few mistakes.

No good reason to make the leap to thinking that Holland lied about making a deal, and that the deal is still, for some reason, a secret a day later. There are more logical rationalizations.

I somewhat disagree there, Mrazek WAS one of the bigger stories when lists were announced. Wouldn't surprise me if McPhee asked a few teams who've expressed interest in goalies if they'd like him to select Mraz for them to trade for. But he also may have not batted an eye at Mrazek and moved on his way without any teams asking either, who knows.

Yes, I'm purposely projecting that vibe lol. It tickles me pink that half this board moped and griped about stupid Holland all week, when it appears precious Mrazek wasn't in any real threat of being selected the whole time. I do think Mrazek has sucked pretty bad for the last year and a half, but I've said since it was announced he was exposed that I don't think he'll be selected.

I think he's grossly overvalued, and that's basically the end of the story. Whether that's because he's been terrible or because the goalie market is dry, it's hard to say, it's probably a combination of each.

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 

I truly think he will turn things around if given the proper chance to do so. Last chance to dance. If he's simply Howard's backup or something though, and spends a lot of time on the bench, what can realistically be expected? Can't s*** on him if you don't let him do what he needs to do. "Well, Petr did well in 25 starts he was given, but it's not enough. We're sticking with Howard."


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What happened to Howard spending all year on IR?? 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I do doubt it, and like I said, it's all speculation. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would find more value in Tomas Nosek over Petr Mrazek. Maybe McPhee really does believe Nosek can develop into something, or maybe he thinks Mrazek is a career backup. I have no idea.

Mrazek is a $4 million goalie who spent over a year playing like an AHL journeyman with rumors of a bad attitude. I wouldn't have touched him either. I would have snagged XO instead, though.

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[chaps80 1,591]

Subpar is a bit generous

He started off pretty good. Not great, but good. Then Howard had that game in NY and all of a sudden Blash's bingo wheel of doom is in motion. Mrazek may have improved, may not have. But after Howard being given his starts, then Coreau being given his starts while getting lit up like a Xmas tree that caught on fire, maybe he got somewhat aggravated? By the end of the season while alternating starts with Howard, he was playing much better. Howard had some really bad games at that point too. His season wasn't perfect.A 3.00 GAA is high, but considering the season the Wings had, and him starting 50 games, it's not THAT horrible.


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 

He started off pretty good. Not great, but good. Then Howard had that game in NY and all of a sudden Blash's bingo wheel of doom is in motion. Mrazek may have improved, may not have. But after Howard being given his starts, then Coreau being given his starts while getting lit up like a Xmas tree that caught on fire, maybe he got somewhat aggravated? By the end of the season while alternating starts with Howard, he was playing much better. Howard had some really bad games at that point too. His season wasn't perfect.A 3.00 GAA is high, but considering the season the Wings had, and him starting 50 games, it's not THAT horrible.


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Yes it is.

You can make all the excuses for him you want, but he was our starter for the majority of the season just like he wanted to be, and he was arguably the worst starter in the entire league last year. That's horrible. Meanwhile Howard posted one of his best seasons ever behind the same team.

It was so horrible he was unable to be traded, was then exposed, and still unclaimed.

Got any other mental gymnastics?

 

[chaps80 1,591]

What happened to Howard spending all year on IR?? 

I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 

I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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That's an "If" scenario, I highly doubt Mrazek steps it up 

[chaps80 1,591]

Yes it is.
You can make all the excuses for him you want, but he was our starter for the majority of the season just like he wanted to be, and he was arguably the worst starter in the entire league last year. That's horrible. Meanwhile Howard posted one of his best seasons ever behind the same team.
It was so horrible he was unable to be traded, was then exposed, and still unclaimed.
Got any other mental gymnastics?
 

Yeah Jimmy had a huge 25 game season. Maybe that's why he did so well. Lots of rest and training/practice time, conditioning stint before returning. Had he played a real starters workload, his numbers would 99% not have stayed there. His numbers dropped while rotating with Mrazek towards the end of the season.

Howard was on the trade market before last season too, no one would touch him with his inconsistency, injuries, and contract. They still wouldn't. Calgary chose Elliott as a gamble for cheap for one season instead of a gamble on Howard and having him get hurt or suck and being stuck with his immovable deal. You act like Mrazek's one bad season defines his ability and potential and he's worthless. Before last year, he had a career GAA in the upper 2.00's. Horrible.


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

18 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 

I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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3 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 

Yeah Jimmy had a huge 25 game season. Maybe that's why he did so well. Lots of rest and training/practice time, conditioning stint before returning. Had he played a real starters workload, his numbers would 99% not have stayed there. His numbers dropped while rotating with Mrazek towards the end of the season.

Howard was on the trade market before last season too, no one would touch him with his inconsistency, injuries, and contract. They still wouldn't. Calgary chose Elliott as a gamble for cheap for one season instead of a gamble on Howard and having him get hurt or suck and being stuck with his immovable deal. You act like Mrazek's one bad season defines his ability and potential and he's worthless. Before last year, he had a career GAA in the upper 2.00's. Horrible.


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That's funny... If Mrazek only plays 25 games the Wings shouldn't expect him to do well, but if Howard plays 25 games that's the reason he does well.

We're reach new levels of cognitive dissonance folks, hold on to your butts!

[chaps80 1,591]

That's funny... If Mrazek only plays 25 games the Wings shouldn't expect him to do well, but if Howard plays 25 games that's the reason he does well.
We're reach new levels of cognitive dissonance folks, hold on to your butts!

Didn't say don't expect him to do well. I said plays well in the games he's given. Don't give him the majority, don't s*** on him for not being the dominant goalie and use that as a basis for him not being around anymore. Give him the majority and he s***s the bed, then no worries, his contract is finished. With Blashill, who knows how starts will be divided up. Maybe throw a dart at two pictures with his eyes closed?


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 

Didn't say don't expect him to do well. I said plays well in the games he's given. Don't give him the majority, don't s*** on him for not being the dominant goalie and use that as a basis for him not being around anymore. Give him the majority and he s***s the bed, then no worries, his contract is finished. With Blashill, who knows how starts will be divided up. Maybe throw a dart at two pictures with his eyes closed?


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But Howard did so well BECAUSE he only played 25 games. All that rest, training, practice time. You said it yourself. Clearly Mrazek would benefit from the same thing... Right? Or do you hold a double standard when it comes to our goalies??