Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I doubt that will happen, but he's good for an injury or two a year that sidelines him. It's just an "if" scenario. IF Howard stays healthy and is given 50-60 starts, then they shouldn't complain about Mrazek not stepping up.


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Isn't it his job to step up and play well when he gets an opportunity? So yes, they should complain if he fails.

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[chaps80 1,591]

But Howard did so well BECAUSE he only played 25 games. All that rest, training, practice time. You said it yourself. Clearly Mrazek would benefit from the same thing... Right? Or do you hold a double standard when it comes to our goalies??
 
 

Didn't say Mrazek would benefit from less games. I'm saying he needs to play all the games he can actually. But what's given is what's given. If you want to do all the things to send a message to play better or your done in Detroit, then you need to give him the chance to do it. Just don't want to see him move on because Blash favoured Howard or Coreau or whoever else over Mrazek even if he was playing great. That's all it is. Seems his attitude and performance last season might put him in that situation regardless of what he does. I hope that's not the case. The Wings need him to play well consistently and give him the reigns going forward. He's still the goalie with the most skill, confidence, and potential in the system right now. No one is really even close.


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[Buppy 1,720]

42 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I somewhat disagree there, Mrazek WAS one of the bigger stories when lists were announced. Wouldn't surprise me if McPhee asked a few teams who've expressed interest in goalies if they'd like him to select Mraz for them to trade for. But he also may have not batted an eye at Mrazek and moved on his way without any teams asking either, who knows.

Yes, I'm purposely projecting that vibe lol. It tickles me pink that half this board moped and griped about stupid Holland all week, when it appears precious Mrazek wasn't in any real threat of being selected the whole time. I do think Mrazek has sucked pretty bad for the last year and a half, but I've said since it was announced he was exposed that I don't think he'll be selected.

I think he's grossly overvalued, and that's basically the end of the story. Whether that's because he's been terrible or because the goalie market is dry, it's hard to say, it's probably a combination of each.

Sure, one of the bigger surprises (though likely seems a lot bigger to us since it's Wings related), but is that really saying much? What else was there: Neal and Ryan? (And Ryan probably not that big a surprise since he's 30, makes all the money for forever, and had a terrible season of his own.)

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Didn't say Mrazek would benefit from less games. I'm saying he needs to play all the games he can actually. But what's given is what's given. If you want to do all the things to send a message to play better or your done in Detroit, then you need to give him the chance to do it. Just don't want to see him move on because Blash favoured Howard or Coreau or whoever else over Mrazek even if he was playing great. That's all it is. Seems his attitude and performance last season might put him in that situation regardless of what he does. I hope that's not the case. The Wings need him to play well consistently and give him the reigns going forward. He's still the goalie with the most skill, confidence, and potential in the system right now. No one is really even close.


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So should they allow him to be the #1 guy and play 60 games even if he's terrible, so he can work through his issues? Because that would send a great message to the team. "Look guys I know we've lost a ton because of goal tending issues, but we can't make a change because Petr was named the starter and we just don't think it's fair to take the job away just because he's not getting the job done."

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[chaps80 1,591]

So should they allow him to be the #1 guy and play 60 games even if he's terrible, so he can work through his issues? Because that would send a great message to the team. "Look guys I know we've lost a ton because of goal tending issues, but we can't make a change because Petr was named the starter and we just don't think it's fair to take the job away just because he's not getting the job done."

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Absolutely not. Goalies have rough stretches, but if he's consistently bad knowing he's under the microscope and his attitude and work ethic are in question heading into the season, then by all means, bench him. But if he's put the work in over the summer to improve and is playing well, let it roll. Give him as much playing time as possible.

Just don't want to see these issues the Wings have with him now affect and influence how he's treated and how much playing time he gets this season, even if he improves. Entire point of these last few comments that seems to have been missed.


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[DickieDunn 2,571]

OK, but you're on record saying they shouldn't have given Howard as many starts and Coreau shouldn't have gotten as many as he did so they could play Mrazek even though he was playing like a dumpster fire all year.

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[joesuffP 1,746]

It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

[joesuffP 1,746]

It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 hours ago, joesuffP said:

It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

I really think it is as simple as this, like you say.

I've been saying since the exposure that Holland probably knew there was a very slim chance Mrazek would get claimed after shopping him. So he used the opportunity to send a message to his team. Guys who work hard will be rewarded, guys who act like little dick birds will not.

Edited June 23, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[SwedeLundin77 460]

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I really think it is as simple as this, like you say.

I've been saying since the exposure that Holland probably knew there was a very slim chance Mrazek wouldn't get claimed after shopping him. So he used the opportunity to send a message to his team. Guys who work hard will be rewarded, guys who act like little dick birds will not.

I think I heard somewhere that Holland will continue to try and trade Mrazek, though.  Arizona and Winnipeg are in need of a starter.  In either case, it seems we are gung-ho about having Howard/Coreau being the tandem this season and moving forward.  I do have reservations about Coreau's ability to stay consistent, based off of his play so far.  I also have to wonder, if we are moving away from Mrazek, will our goalie coach also change?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

I think I heard somewhere that Holland will continue to try and trade Mrazek, though.  Arizona and Winnipeg are in need of a starter.  In either case, it seems we are gung-ho about having Howard/Coreau being the tandem this season and moving forward.  I do have reservations about Coreau's ability to stay consistent, based off of his play so far.  I also have to wonder, if we are moving away from Mrazek, will our goalie coach also change?

I disagree here. His trade value is the lowest it's been since he entered the NHL right now. I think he's likely off the trade block for the time being, and will start the season with us in September. If he doesn't get his act together by the trade deadline however, I think he will be ditched at that time.

That is unless Holland wants to clear cap and a team like Arizona is willing to hedge their bets on the kid.

[marcaractac 3,961]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I really think it is as simple as this, like you say.

I've been saying since the exposure that Holland probably knew there was a very slim chance Mrazek would get claimed after shopping him. So he used the opportunity to send a message to his team. Guys who work hard will be rewarded, guys who act like little dick birds will not.

In the end, for all we know if McPhee did want to choose Mrazek, Holland then may have worked out a deal to avoid that. But McPhee wanted Nosek, so no big deal. 

I have no doubt McPhee gave each and every GM a chance to make an offer based on the player they had an interest in. Highly doubt any GM came out of that draft surprised. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by marcaractac

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

25 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

In the end, for all we know if McPhee did want to choose Mrazek, Holland then may have worked out a deal to avoid that. But McPhee wanted Nosek, so no big deal. 

I have no doubt McPhee gave each and every GM a chance to make an offer based on the player they had an interest in. Highly doubt any GM came out of that draft surprised. 

I'm not following.... How can McPhee want to choose Mrazek and Nosek at the same time? We know who he wanted, cause that's who he took. 

[marcaractac 3,961]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not following.... How can McPhee want to choose Mrazek and Nosek at the same time? We know who he wanted, cause that's who he took. 

Try re-reading

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Try re-reading

No need to be short. I have several times, and I'm honestly still not following....

Are you suggesting that Holland had a deal in place to protect Mrazek, but McPhee just said screw it and took Nosek at the last minute?

Edited June 23, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[marcaractac 3,961]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No need to be short. I have several times, and I'm honestly still not following....

Are you suggesting that Holland had a deal in place to protect Mrazek, but McPhee just said screw it and took Nosek at the last minute?

 

Nope

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

Nope

...uhhh do you mind explaining then?

[marcaractac 3,961]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

...uhhh do you mind explaining then?

What happened in real life: McPhee wanted Nosek. McPhee drafted Nosek. Crisis averted.

A 'what if' scenario: McPhee has interest in Mrazek. Much like he likely did with each and every team, informed Holland of this interest in the event a deal can be worked out. If Mrazek was the guy McPhee wanted, we do not know, IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, if Holland would have worked out a deal to protect him or not. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. We will never know the answer to that. Maybe Holland is done with Mrazek, maybe not protecting him was all a facade to send him a message. The fact is, we do not, nor will ever know the answer to that.                 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

What happened in real life: McPhee wanted Nosek. McPhee drafted Nosek. Crisis averted.

A 'what if' scenario: McPhee has interest in Mrazek. Much like he likely did with each and every team, informed Holland of this interest in the event a deal can be worked out. If Mrazek was the guy McPhee wanted, we do not know, IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, if Holland would have worked out a deal to protect him or not. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. We will never know the answer to that. Maybe Holland is done with Mrazek, maybe not protecting him was all a facade to send him a message. The fact is, we do not, nor will ever know the answer to that.                 

Thanks, sorry for the confusion...

I mean, Holland said straight up he would NOT make any deals to protect his players. Who goes goes. Unless you think he was lying....

[marcaractac 3,961]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Thanks, sorry for the confusion...

I mean, Holland said straight up he would NOT make any deals to protect his players. Who goes goes. Unless you think he was lying....

A GM is always gonna say something like that if they don't need to make a deal though. But like I said, none of us know what could have happened if McPhee wanted Mrazek. I'm just glad he is still a Wing, and hope it remains that way come October. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

A GM is always gonna say something like that if they don't need to make a deal though. But like I said, none of us know what could have happened if McPhee wanted Mrazek. I'm just glad he is still a Wing, and hope it remains that way come October. 

I don't think he would've made a deal, I think he would've changed who he exposed 

[chaps80 1,591]

OK, but you're on record saying they shouldn't have given Howard as many starts and Coreau shouldn't have gotten as many as he did so they could play Mrazek even though he was playing like a dumpster fire all year.

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Coreau was a worse "dumpster fire" than Mrazek, yet got more starts and the WC. That made a lot of sense every time he was face down on the ice trying in vain to stop a shot looking helpless. And Howard, well not much you can say about that. Injured 2/3 of the season. , Mrazek was the "starter" going into last season. Of course you give him some leeway. All starters get some leeway. But the obvious railroading that went on when his attitude issues began? The Coreau thing was what settled that for me. Two goalies playing bad, let's give the callup with no prior NHL experience a bunch of starts instead of the guy who's seen a lot more NHL action that you want to take the top job and keep it. Great strategy Jeff. Why not talk to the kid and tell him to change it up and work harder, that they want him to play like he's capable of, instead of just leaving tensions to fester? Maybe they did try, but with all the "insider" info out there about anything and everything, there's no mention of any of that.

That said, this season is different. There's obvious issues with him, I'm sure he's well aware if he doesn't deliver he's gone. Doesn't seem to be a set starter in mind yet. If he is given the job and sucks again, don't resign him. But don't use last seasons issues influence how you treat him when this new season starts. If he can put it behind him, management and coaches should too.


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[chaps80 1,591]

It was likely a mixture of all things. Rewarding Howard, sending Mrazek a message, and knowing that Vegas wouldn't likely claim Mrazek

Rewarding Howard for what?? Playing good but not playing much at all to be of any use? Why does 25 games in which he mostly didn't screw up so huge to you guys? I just don't get it. It's about time he got his s*** somewhat together after the heart attacks he gave fans on every shot for quite awhile. Too bad he wasn't around to help the team.


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You'd think by the Howard love around here he totally turned s*** around and put up Vezina numbers through 60 games.


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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

18 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

 

Rewarding Howard for what?? Playing good but not playing much at all to be of any use? Why does 25 games in which he mostly didn't screw up so huge to you guys? I just don't get it. It's about time he got his s*** somewhat together after the heart attacks he gave fans on every shot for quite awhile. Too bad he wasn't around to help the team.


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You'd think by the Howard love around here he totally turned s*** around and put up Vezina numbers through 60 games.


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By the sounds of it Howard really worked hard to improve his game in the offseason after having a down year the year before. And the numbers reflect that. It makes sense that the team would want to reward the guy who works hard, it promotes meritocracy and work ethic on the team as a whole. It's too bad he received the injury he did, It would have saved us from the atrocious season Mrazek had. Despite what you would imply, Howard has never had a season as bad as Mraz did this year.

Howard love around here? After 3,297 posts I would think you have been around here long enough to know this place as been Mrazek love fest since he entered the league. Only now is everyone coming back down to earth... but that doesn't mean people love Howard around here lol.  

Edited June 23, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[joesuffP 1,746]

And it's not like Howard had a sore groin and missed time. Jensen barreled into him very awkwardly any goalie would have been hurt in that situation