Off-season moves

[kliq 3,755]

54 minutes ago, Buppy said:

That isn't really true. Last season they had Fisher, Smith, Wilson, and Ribiero all at $3.5+ and often playing 3rd line. Ribiero eventually got waived. They had 8 active forwards @ $2M+, averaging $4.136M. We also had 8, averaging $3.951. We spend more on our defense, but that's mostly due to being at different stages. Let's see where they are once Josi and Ellis are in their mid-30s. (I'm guessing it will be starting another rebuild, and most everyone on the current team will be gone.) 

What they have done well is sign several young players to long-term deals that have worked out well so far. Josi, Ellis, Ekholm, Jarnkrok, and even Forsberg. Good chance Arvidsson works out that way too. Johansen not so much I think.

And is this Nashville love-fest going to be a thing now? They were a mediocre team that had a good playoff run. Great defense unit, and some good forwards, but hardly anything we should be thinking of as the new model for success.

I feel like you took my comments out of context. I'll explain myself.

First off, I'm referring to their team this year, not their team last year. If I stated that Nashville has always used their cap like this, then you may have a valid point. (quite frankly I have no clue as I haven't look at anything previous to this season)

Secondly, but in the same realm, I was looking at their team in a bubble with the context being where they are right now, not 5+ year from now. I never said or implied that in 5 years their cap would look great.

The reason for my post, was NOT because I believe that Nashville is run perfectly and we suck, @Never_Retire_Steve said:

"I really hope that management is looking what Nashville is doing and figures out how to build a solid core for many years. Amazing to me that the Predators have Johnasen, Arvidsson, Forsberg, Subban, and Ekholm for the terms they do for as cheap as they do. Amazing job by Poile IMO."

My main point was to point out that this is untrue and that they DO NOT have all their players for cheap, I assumed that this poster was saying this due to their cap management, and my point was that the reason why it looked so good was because of the amount of players they have in the 600K to 1.5mil range (again right now), specifically Watson, Hartnell, Fiala, McLeod, Gaudreau, Aberg, Sissons, Salomaki, Weber, Irwin, Bitetto & Mazanek which is 12 of their roster players compared to us who have 6 roster players in that range.

Now, if we are talking 5+ years from now, you're right, they likely will be a team that is looked at having bad contacts, all contracts look good when the player is outperforming their cap hit. Hindsight is of course always 20/20. Every team is always going to have an inevitable down turn, this is why I am not as hard on Holland for the state of our team as some, but most fans look only in the here and now which is why some people think Nashville is amazing, and Detroit is awful. Small picture thinking. Holland has made his share of mistakes, no denying that, but you cannot keep a team elite forever, literally not possible. 

[Buppy 1,720]

10 hours ago, kliq said:

...The reason for my post, was NOT because I believe that Nashville is run perfectly and we suck, @Never_Retire_Steve said:

"I really hope that management is looking what Nashville is doing and figures out how to build a solid core for many years. Amazing to me that the Predators have Johnasen, Arvidsson, Forsberg, Subban, and Ekholm for the terms they do for as cheap as they do. Amazing job by Poile IMO."

My main point was to point out that this is untrue and that they DO NOT have all their players for cheap, I assumed that this poster was saying this due to their cap management, and my point was that the reason why it looked so good was because of the amount of players they have in the 600K to 1.5mil range (again right now), specifically Watson, Hartnell, Fiala, McLeod, Gaudreau, Aberg, Sissons, Salomaki, Weber, Irwin, Bitetto & Mazanek which is 12 of their roster players compared to us who have 6 roster players in that range....

The last comment in my post was directed more at the community in general. I should have specified that; didn't mean to single you out. 

Though as to your point, just looking at this year, the majority of the difference in spending is that we have one more expensive forward, plus Franzen. 

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

20 hours ago, kliq said:

They do have great core, but where are you getting this from? Johansen just signed for 8mil x 8, Subban is signed for 9mil x 5, Forsberg 6Mil x 6, Arvidsson 4.25mil x 7, and Ekholm 3.75mil x 5.

I dont think any of these are bad deals, but they are not "cheap" either". What Nashville does well, is it pays it's stars well, then pays the guys on their lower lines pretty much all at 1mil or under. That's what differs them from us, we are paying guys on our 3rd/4th lines anywhere from 600K to 4.25mil.

They have all these guys locked up in their primes for 5 years and spending ~$30 million which gives them a ton of flexibility to fill out the rest of their roster.

You're completely right that what they do with the rest of that money is important but having 5 guys like that over the next five years is cheap when you look at it relatively. A lot of those guys should be making more IMO. 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

We can fire sale now or at the deadline. Either I want that #1 pick. The Svech Brothers will be the new Sedins....sort of.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

We can fire sale now or at the deadline. Either I want that #1 pick. The Svech Brothers will be the new Sedins....sort of.

Not unless Holland isn't the GM anymore.  PLAYOFFS OR BUST

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, Never_Retire_Steve said:

They have all these guys locked up in their primes for 5 years and spending ~$30 million which gives them a ton of flexibility to fill out the rest of their roster.

You're completely right that what they do with the rest of that money is important but having 5 guys like that over the next five years is cheap when you look at it relatively. A lot of those guys should be making more IMO. 

Really? Subban is the highest paid defenseman in the league. Johansen is 13th for forwards. decent if he can regularly put up 70+, but if anything overpaid for putting up 60-ish. Forsberg maybe a little under to balance...he and Johansen should probably both be around $6.5-7M. Arvidsson is too early to tell. Great deal if he really is a 30g/60p player, but that could also backfire. Ekholm is the only one I'd really consider a bargain, and even that depends on whether he's a 30p+ player he was two years ago, or the 20p player he was in his other two seasons.

Josi and Ellis are the real underpaid guys, for another 3 and 2 years respectively. Examples of how giving a player a long-term deal early on can pay off, though in general I think that's a poor strategy.

 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Everytime I see this BBC breaking news logo on Twitter, I think it's Red Wings breaking news...im desperate for breaking news!!!

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by LeftWinger

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

4 hours ago, Buppy said:

Really? Subban is the highest paid defenseman in the league. Johansen is 13th for forwards. decent if he can regularly put up 70+, but if anything overpaid for putting up 60-ish. Forsberg maybe a little under to balance...he and Johansen should probably both be around $6.5-7M. Arvidsson is too early to tell. Great deal if he really is a 30g/60p player, but that could also backfire. Ekholm is the only one I'd really consider a bargain, and even that depends on whether he's a 30p+ player he was two years ago, or the 20p player he was in his other two seasons.

Josi and Ellis are the real underpaid guys, for another 3 and 2 years respectively. Examples of how giving a player a long-term deal early on can pay off, though in general I think that's a poor strategy.

 

Personally, I love the strategy of signing mid to long range deals for guys who are in their primes. Typically the best years of hockey player's careers are exactly where the core of Nashville is right now so I think it's a really smart move to avoid a bridge deal like a lot of other teams do.

Subban should be one of the highest paid dmen in the league IMO. There's some insanely good deals out there on dmen right now.... Duncan Keith and OEL immediately come to mind but this is why I think Nashville is smart is because it is much more likely that even if they overpaid these guys (I don't think they have), in the future it is very likely going to look like a good deal because the majority of them are likely to improve.

Detroit on the other hand has a bunch of contracts and term that are on guys that are 30+ and that to me can look real messy in a few years, not to mention that they all seem to have NTC/NMCs. Nashville on the other hand has 1.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Rasmussen oft injured already.

[krsmith17 7,191]

40 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Rasmussen oft injured already.

Why? Did he get injured in the game yesterday? Or are you referring to his one injury (fractured wrist) from last season that he is now fully recovered from?

[BinMucker94 302]

20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Why? Did he get injured in the game yesterday? Or are you referring to his one injury (fractured wrist) from last season that he is now fully recovered from?

I thought I saw somewhere on twitter that he was taken out of one of the games as a precaution. Don't have the link or source so not sure if it's true.

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, BinMucker94 said:

I thought I saw somewhere on twitter that he was taken out of one of the games as a precaution. Don't have the link or source so not sure if it's true.

I never seen anything on that. Are you sure you aren't thinking about the scrimmage game we kept him out of in development camp a few weeks ago?

[BinMucker94 302]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I never seen anything on that. Are you sure you aren't thinking about the scrimmage game we kept him out of in development camp a few weeks ago?

This is all it was.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

What the Penguins are left with are a group of guys who fit their needs well: young, two-way centers on affordable contracts. The most common name bandied about is Detroit Red Wings forward Riley Sheahan. Sheahan struggled mightily in 2016-17 and is relatively expensive compared to some other available names at $2.075MM this season. However, Detroit desperately needs to shed salary and may have reached the end of the line with Sheahan. It could be a good match, with Sheahan very likely bouncing back on a far more talented Penguins team.

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 

 

 

 

No.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

He ain't gonna trade E or one of Nyquist/Tatar...money's gotta come from somewhere.

[krsmith17 7,191]

L...T...I...R...

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Ya, but nobody outside of Franzen is slated to go on LTIR. Holland says they'll play. So now what? If they can get Pits 1st rounder for Sheahan, that'd be nice. It'll probably be 25-31ish...

[krsmith17 7,191]

35 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ya, but nobody outside of Franzen is slated to go on LTIR. Holland says they'll play. So now what? If they can get Pits 1st rounder for Sheahan, that'd be nice. It'll probably be 25-31ish...

It will work itself out, it always does. Someone will get injured in training camp / pre-season, and just when that player is ready to come back, someone else will get injured... Kronwall likely ends up on LTIR at some point this season.

Also, despite the rumours from last season, Sheahan won't get us a first.

[Dominator2005 558]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

It will work itself out, it always does. Someone will get injured in training camp / pre-season, and just when that player is ready to come back, someone else will get injured... Kronwall likely ends up on LTIR at some point this season.

Also, despite the rumours from last season, Sheahan won't get us a first.

She + 3rd for Pitts 1st

(Reaves)

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Sheahan and a 3rd doesn't come close to a first rounder.  Might get a second.  Despite the rumors I doubt anyone was all that interested in him at the deadline.  But yeah, they need to do something.  Despite what krsmith thinks, it's not going to magically fix itself, and LTIR isn't a viable plan.

[krsmith17 7,191]

37 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Sheahan and a 3rd doesn't come close to a first rounder.  Might get a second.  Despite the rumors I doubt anyone was all that interested in him at the deadline.  But yeah, they need to do something.  Despite what krsmith thinks, it's not going to magically fix itself, and LTIR isn't a viable plan.

No, because that hasn't happened at all the past few years... Oh wait, yes it has... We are in this position (over the cap), what seems like every year around this time, and someone always gets injured in training camp or pre-season, and "magically fixes" the cap problems. By the way, I never once said or suggested that LTIR is a viable plan, I've actually said the exact opposite on several occasions. We should make a trade, but that's not going to happen, and you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

 

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 By the way, I never once said or suggested that LTIR is a viable plan, I've actually said the exact opposite on several occasions. We should make a trade, but that's not going to happen, and you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

21 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

L...T...I...R...

Oh really?

They've never been this far over, other than one year after they brought Samuelsson back.  Over the cap has always accounted for Franzen and that's about it.  Who's going to be on LTIR?  Kronwall and the team say he's playing this year.  Everyone else is either healthy or just has some minor issues that needed to be taken care of over the summer.  Their current salary minus Franzen leaves them over the cap with only 22 players on the roster once AA gets a deal.  That doesn't work.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Oh really?

They've never been this far over, other than one year after they brought Samuelsson back.  Over the cap has always accounted for Franzen and that's about it.  Who's going to be on LTIR?  Kronwall and the team say he's playing this year.  Everyone else is either healthy or just has some minor issues that needed to be taken care of over the summer.  Their current salary minus Franzen leaves them over the cap with only 22 players on the roster once AA gets a deal.  That doesn't work.

My apologies. I've always thought the word viable, in this case "viable plan" meant good plan, but it means a plan that would work. Well what I meant was that I never said it was a good plan, I think it's a terrible strategy, but you're right, I did say it's a workable plan, and I do think that's exactly what Holland plans on doing.

Of course everyone is healthy or close to it, it's August. You're telling me you don't think a single player will suffer any sort of injury in training camp or preseason? I'd be shocked if they don't. I also don't think Kronwall is as "healthy" as the team is leading us to believe. We'll see what happens, but I'll ask you again, do you actually think Ken Holland is going to make a trade? What do you see as a realistic plan (something you can see Holland actually doing) to solve the cap situation?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

My apologies. I've always thought the word viable, in this case "viable plan" meant good plan, but it means a plan that would work. Well what I meant was that I never said it was a good plan, I think it's a terrible strategy, but you're right, I did say it's a workable plan, and I do think that's exactly what Holland plans on doing.

Of course everyone is healthy or close to it, it's August. You're telling me you don't think a single player will suffer any sort of injury in training camp or preseason? I'd be shocked if they don't. I also don't think Kronwall is as "healthy" as the team is leading us to believe. We'll see what happens, but I'll ask you again, do you actually think Ken Holland is going to make a trade? What do you see as a realistic plan (something you can see Holland actually doing) to solve the cap situation?

Not every injury qualifies for LTIR