Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I thank you for the fallacious casual oversimplification of my argument, but if you have issue with it please point out where.

It's not any different than NA v. Euro style. I'm racist against Czechs.

jeez, he walked right into that one.

[kickazz 5,459]

15 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

jeez, he walked right into that one.

Lollllll

[LeftWinger 4,961]

34 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I thank you for the fallacious casual oversimplification of my argument, but if you have issue with it please point out where.

It's not any different than NA v. Euro style. I'm racist against Czechs.

At this point, I'll stick with Nyquist over a bad attitude Tatar and Howard over a bad attitude Mrazek. 

Like I said trade them both now and give Vanek a call. I'd even give Jagr a 1 year deal instead of deal with attitude.

 

Btw, Tatar is Slovokian.

Edited July 10, 2017 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

24 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

At this point, I'll stick with Nyquist over a bad attitude Tatar and Howard over a bad attitude Mrazek. 

Like I said trade them both now and give Vanek a call. I'd even give Jagr a 1 year deal instead of deal with attitude.

 

Btw, Tatar is Slovokian.

Yeah technically. When I was a kid they were one and the same.

[Juklitz 85]

Slovakian. 

By the way, there´s a difference between czech and slovak attitude in general, Tatar is typical example. 

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm racist against Czechs.

...and we´re trying to not improve. 

 

[kickazz 5,459]

3 minutes ago, Juklitz said:

Slovakian. 

By the way, there´s a difference between czech and slovak attitude in general, Tatar is typical example. 

A bit more blunt? And no touchy-feely loyalty? At least the Russians were better about it. Least Sergei had some feels for Detroit. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by kickazz

[Juklitz 85]

 

Just now, kickazz said:

A bit more blunt?

Well..Yes. 

It´s hard to say while I´m 50 percent Slovak, but it´s the reason why I´m saying so. I´ve already stated that couple times here - I do NOT like Tatar with his attitude. Although he´s right in this case (asking for solid money and term). 

[kickazz 5,459]

I'm very curious about how much Tatar is asking. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, Juklitz said:

 

Well..Yes. 

It´s hard to say while I´m 50 percent Slovak, but it´s the reason why I´m saying so. I´ve already stated that couple times here - I do NOT like Tatar with his attitude. Although he´s right in this case (asking for solid money and term). 

He sure has every right to ask for what he wants, but the way he's going about it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. If this team was a contender it might be a different story, but we're retooling and his attitude is making him a piece that is expendable.

[Juklitz 85]

If he can bring top pick for next year draft / top D prospect then.. 

[kickazz 5,459]

Am I the only one that sees this as an opportunity for the Wings to get a high pick/ a 1D?

This might actually force Holland's hand for a trade.

Edited July 10, 2017 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,961]

4 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Am I the only one that sees this as an opportunity for the Wings to get a high pick/ a 1D?

This might actually force Holland's hand for a trade.

Yes, I said earlier I wonder what kind of return we could get for a package of Tatar and Mrazek.

Although Holland couldn't give Mrazek away at expansion...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Am I the only one that sees this as an opportunity for the Wings to get a high pick/ a 1D?

This might actually force Holland's hand for a trade.

Send Mrazek and Tatar's rights to Philly for one of their many highly touted D prospects and a high pick.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, Juklitz said:

 

Well..Yes. 

It´s hard to say while I´m 50 percent Slovak, but it´s the reason why I´m saying so. I´ve already stated that couple times here - I do NOT like Tatar with his attitude. Although he´s right in this case (asking for solid money and term). 

I don't live in Slovakia, but all 4 of my grandparents are from there and I have been there multiple times.

I would agree with the notion that Slovaks tend to be blunt lol.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If I was an employee on any field and had watched b my boss give raises to people who were less valuable than me without batting an eyelash, then tried to low-ball me, I'd be looking for a new employer. In fact, that's exactly what I did when that happened to me. Anyone who says they'd be ok with that happening to them is either lying or is a doormat. If Abdelkader, Helm, Nyquist, and Glendening are worth what they got, Tatar absolutely is worth $5 mil a year. Of course if the 3 grinders hadn't been overpaid by $500k+ a season there wouldn't be a cap issue giving Tatar what he deserves.

Sent by my minions via telepathy

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

If I was an employee on any field and had watched b my boss give raises to people who were less valuable than me without batting an eyelash, then tried to low-ball me, I'd be looking for a new employer. In fact, that's exactly what I did when that happened to me. Anyone who says they'd be ok with that happening to them is either lying or is a doormat. If Abdelkader, Helm, Nyquist, and Glendening are worth what they got, Tatar absolutely is worth $5 mil a year. Of course if the 3 grinders hadn't been overpaid by $500k+ a season there wouldn't be a cap issue giving Tatar what he deserves.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

I don't disagree with your overall point, but you are again oversimplifying the issue.

First off, how many eye lashes Holland batted when handing out other contracts is not knowledge you possess. What kind of contract he's offered Tatar, and whether or not that is a low-ball, is not knowledge you possess.

Abdelkader, Helm, and Glendening all signed their contracts as upcoming or current UFAs. Tatar is not UFA, he is an RFA in arbitration. His situation is much different than the previously mentioned forwards. Comparatively,  Nyquist received a similar contract as an RFA to the one that Tatar is seeking. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't, and I do not believe you think Nyquist is overpaid.

Regardless, I haven't stated that Tatar is not worth what he's asking. I believe he is. It''s the thinly veiled threat of leaving if he doesn't get the term he wants that rubs me the wrong way. If you'd like to discuss that I'm all ears.

[kickazz 5,459]

29 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

If I was an employee on any field and had watched blah blah blah something about making Holland look bad without any actual information and full of assumptions. Tatar absolutely is worth $5 mil a year. Of course if the 3 grinders hadn't been overpaid by $500k+ a season there wouldn't be a cap issue giving Tatar what he deserves.
 

And what if Tatar is asking for 6-7 million? Have you considered that? I mean I haven't seen the asking price yet unless someone has heard something I haven't. You're just talking out of your ass and assuming things. As usual. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

And what if Tatar is asking for 6-7 million? Have you considered that? I mean I haven't seen the asking price yet unless someone has heard something I haven't. You're just talking out of your ass and assuming things. As usual. 

Khan reporting that Tatar's upcoming contract will be $5+ so I believe that's what everyone is going on

[kickazz 5,459]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Khan reporting that Tatar's upcoming contract will be $5+ so I believe that's what everyone is going on

Actually I just saw this:

 

The Red Wings would like to get Tatar signed on a multi-year contract worth approximately $5 million per season — which is about $1 million less than Tatar’s representatives are looking for.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/07/08/contract-talks-red-wings-tatar-turn-sticky/103534746/

Tatar is asking for $6 million a year. Lol 

Dickie over there thinks Tatar is worth $5 million. Looks like Holland has been offering Tatar exactly that much. Hey Dickie, you and Holland are actually on the same boat!

So now what becomes of Dickie's argument? 

Edited July 10, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Actually I just saw this:

 

The Red Wings would like to get Tatar signed on a multi-year contract worth approximately $5 million per season — which is about $1 million less than Tatar’s representatives are looking for.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/07/08/contract-talks-red-wings-tatar-turn-sticky/103534746/

Tatar is asking for $6 million a year. Lol 

Dickie over there things Tatar is worth $5 million. So now what becomes of Dickie's argument? 

Wow

So he wants to be on equal pay with Zberg and Mike Green, and a decent amount north of Howard, Nyquist, and Nielsen.

$6 million on a multi-year deal essentially makes him a cornerstone in this franchise. Is he a cornerstone in this franchise? If his shoulder doesn't hold up or his production slips at all he would be un-tradable on that contract. If he's comfortable taking his services elsewhere, I say we oblige him. 

[kliq 3,755]

38 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

If I was an employee on any field and had watched b my boss give raises to people who were less valuable than me without batting an eyelash, then tried to low-ball me, I'd be looking for a new employer. In fact, that's exactly what I did when that happened to me. Anyone who says they'd be ok with that happening to them is either lying or is a doormat. If Abdelkader, Helm, Nyquist, and Glendening are worth what they got, Tatar absolutely is worth $5 mil a year. Of course if the 3 grinders hadn't been overpaid by $500k+ a season there wouldn't be a cap issue giving Tatar what he deserves.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

I see your argument, and I dont think you are wrong, but it all depends on what your alternatives are. If you are paid less then co-workers who are less deserving, but still paid more then you would be paid somewhere else, you suck it up as in the end, its what's best for you. Anything else just means you are letting ego get in the way.

Now, if your employer is paying you less then co-workers who are less deserving AND another company offers you more, ya then you leave if all other things are equal.

Either way, even at 5mil Tatar is still getting paid more then Abby and Helm, so salary is not really a comparable. The comparable is more so the term, and I can see why Tatar wants a contract similar in term to someone like Helm. But like said above, he is an RFA, mind you an RFA with 1 year left which does give him leverage, but its not the exact same as Helm/Abby.

Also, we dont know what players in the room think of Helm/Abby. Just because some fans may not like those contracts, doesnt mean the players think the same.

Either way, I say trade him. Not because I am mad at him, but because i think this is the best move for us. We are going to need cap space next year to re-sign Larkin and Mantha, and even more so if Holland wants to make a play for JT.

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wow

So he wants to be on equal pay with Zberg and Mike Green, and a decent amount north of Howard, Nyquist, and Nielsen.

$6 million on a multi-year deal essentially makes him a cornerstone in this franchise. Is he a cornerstone in this franchise? If his shoulder doesn't hold up or his production slips at all he would be un-tradable on that contract. If he's comfortable taking his services elsewhere, I say we oblige him. 

I said pay him earlier, but the more I think about it, it makes me nervous signing a guy to that big of a contract coming off a shoulder surgery. He loses his shot, he is worthless as a player.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1) He may have meant if they don't feel I'm worth a longer deal they probably don't feel I'm worth keeping.
2) He has proven he's a good goal scorer and is in his last year of rfa status. Generally those guys get similar deals to what a ufa would get.
3) Abdelkader was in the same situation and the deal got done quick.
4) The idea that these guys owe the team something and they should keep their mouths shut publicly if they're unhappy is ridiculous. You don't think every other player in the NHL tells their GM they want X contract or they walk? Just because Tatar did it in a paper in Europe doesn't make him a bad guy or greedy or whatever problem you have with him over it. It makes him honest. I'd rather have some guys who speak up than have everyone give the same bland cliche answers every time.

Sent by my minions via telepathy

[BadgerBob 297]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wow

So he wants to be on equal pay with Zberg and Mike Green, and a decent amount north of Howard, Nyquist, and Nielsen.

$6 million on a multi-year deal essentially makes him a cornerstone in this franchise. Is he a cornerstone in this franchise? If his shoulder doesn't hold up or his production slips at all he would be un-tradable on that contract. If he's comfortable taking his services elsewhere, I say we oblige him. 

Yeah I think at 6/year you have to walk away from that. That's too much. If he can get that somewhere else, good for him.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Note, I don't think Tatar is completely disloyal. If he was only about the money he'd gladly accept his 1 year deal at 5-6 million and walkaway as a UFA next year getting paid on the open market. Either he's worried about his shoulder and wants to lock in his big contract now, or he truly feels a 1 year contract would be disrespectful based on his play and at that point he might as well test the open market next year. I think Holland's decision on this one will really reflect where he's going with this team.

[kickazz 5,459]

14 minutes ago, kliq said:

 

I said pay him earlier, but the more I think about it, it makes me nervous signing a guy to that big of a contract coming off a shoulder surgery. He loses his shot, he is worthless as a player.

But is he worth $6 million? That's what he's asking for. 

8 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

1) He may have meant if they don't feel I'm worth a longer deal they probably don't feel I'm worth keeping.
2) He has proven he's a good goal scorer and is in his last year of rfa status. Generally those guys get similar deals to what a ufa would get.
3) Abdelkader was in the same situation and the deal got done quick.
4) The idea that these guys owe the team something and they should keep their mouths shut publicly if they're unhappy is ridiculous. You don't think every other player in the NHL tells their GM they want X contract or they walk? Just because Tatar did it in a paper in Europe doesn't make him a bad guy or greedy or whatever problem you have with him over it. It makes him honest. I'd rather have some guys who speak up than have everyone give the same bland cliche answers every time.

Sent by my minions via telepathy
 

So would you pay him $6 million? You said he's worth $5 million.